Galway Bay

slowburner · 05-08-2014 11:41am #1

An oak trackway exposed in the January storms, has been R/C dated to 1,700 BC.
This raises questions about the formation of the bay itself, inundation, how the margins were populated and where the margins were at this time. An interesting aside is that the bay is still referred to as 'Loch Lurgan' by some people.

A team from the NMI is due to visit the site amidst fears that the trackway could deteriorate under strong sunlight conditions.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/ancient-oak-track-on-galway-coast-dated-to-1700-bc-1.1887271

tac foley · 05-08-2014 5:37pm

See also Flag Fen here in Eastern England, for a wooden causeway. Roughly the same dates, too.

tac

slowburner · 06-08-2014 7:54am

tac foley wrote: »

See also Flag Fen here in Eastern England, for a wooden causeway. Roughly the same dates, too.

tac

...and the later Corlea trackway, Co. Longford.

tac foley · 06-08-2014 8:02am

I'm lucky - I live about 20 minutes away from Flag Fen. Even attended a weekend of bronze sword making a few years back with Maestro Dave Chapman and Neil SNU. I made two - one unfinished, and the other fully finished and polished with a sheepskin, pine resin and river sand........

I can send pics if you email me.

Best

tac

slowburner · 06-08-2014 9:21am

tac foley wrote: »

I'm lucky - I live about 20 minutes away from Flag Fen. Even attended a weekend of bronze sword making a few years back with Maestro Dave Chapman and Neil SNU. I made two - one unfinished, and the other fully finished and polished with a sheepskin, pine resin and river sand........

I can send pics if you email me.

Best

tac

Why not post the pics here? I'm sure we'd all like to see them.

bawn79 · 06-08-2014 11:51am

How big an area of Galway Bay are they suggesting I wonder?

Is it just me or is this a potentially huge find? Is it saying all of Galway Bay was above sea level during the Bronze Age or perhaps only a tiny sliver of land with a lake within?

I know Westropp wrote a piece on sunken lands off the coast of Ireland "Brasil and the Legendary Islands of the North Atlantic: Their History and Fable. A Contribution to the "Atlantis" Problem" but there is no mention of a lost land in Galway Bay (in folklore).

Link here but you need access to JSTOR -
http://www.jstor.org/stable/25502810?seq=28&Search=yes&searchText=%22Thomas+Johnson+Westropp%22&searchText=au%3A&list=hide&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26amp%3Bacc%3Doff%26amp%3Bwc%3Don%26amp%3Bfc%3Doff%26amp%3Bso%3Drel%26amp%3BQuery%3Dau%3A%2522Thomas%2BJohnson%2BWestropp%2522%26amp%3Bsi%3D1&prevSearch=&resultsServiceName=null

cfuserkildare · 06-08-2014 3:45pm

Could this give some more credence to the existence of "Hy-Brasil".

Could also, at a stretch, feed more fuel to the Atlantis Legends.

slowburner · 06-08-2014 11:53pm

bawn79 wrote: »

How big an area of Galway Bay are they suggesting I wonder?

Is it just me or is this a potentially huge find? Is it saying all of Galway Bay was above sea level during the Bronze Age or perhaps only a tiny sliver of land with a lake within?

I know Westropp wrote a piece on sunken lands off the coast of Ireland "Brasil and the Legendary Islands of the North Atlantic: Their History and Fable. A Contribution to the "Atlantis" Problem" but there is no mention of a lost land in Galway Bay (in folklore).

Link here but you need access to JSTOR -
http://www.jstor.org/stable/25502810?seq=28&Search=yes&searchText=%22Thomas+Johnson+Westropp%22&searchText=au%3A&list=hide&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26amp%3Bacc%3Doff%26amp%3Bwc%3Don%26amp%3Bfc%3Doff%26amp%3Bso%3Drel%26amp%3BQuery%3Dau%3A%2522Thomas%2BJohnson%2BWestropp%2522%26amp%3Bsi%3D1&prevSearch=&resultsServiceName=null

Short answer - don't know.
Slightly longer answer - don't know but it's not difficult to imagine that it was a sea lough or some form of brackish/estuarine feature. These can be formed more often than you might think. All it takes is few wild Atlantic storms and a bank could be thrown up that impounds freshwater.
A lough was created this way in Mayo in living memory. Then add a rise in sea level and a few more storms and the bay reverts to saltwater.

slowburner · 19-08-2014 10:29am

An excavation has begun.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ancient-oak-structure-from-connemara-coast-excavated-and-taken-into-state-care-1.1900755

Standard Toaster · 20-08-2014 10:20am

Some pictures from their Facebook page

Ipso · 20-08-2014 10:25am

slowburner wrote: »

Short answer - don't know.
Slightly longer answer - don't know but it's not difficult to imagine that it was a sea lough or some form of brackish/estuarine feature. These can be formed more often than you might think. All it takes is few wild Atlantic storms and a bank could be thrown up that impounds freshwater.
A lough was created this way in Mayo in living memory. Then add a rise in sea level and a few more storms and the bay reverts to saltwater.

This is common in Scotland, you get Machair Lochs. They are great for fishing due to the alkaline levels.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machair

There is also an example in Donegal.
http://fishinginireland.info/trout/north/dunfanaghy.htm

slowburner · 20-08-2014 8:01pm

Ipso wrote: »

This is common in Scotland, you get Machair Lochs. They are great for fishing due to the alkaline levels.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machair

There is also an example in Donegal.
http://fishinginireland.info/trout/north/dunfanaghy.htm

The word Machair originated in Donegal.

dubhthach · 21-08-2014 10:12am

slowburner wrote: »

The word Machair originated in Donegal.

Technically speaking it came from Old Irish

machaire
Forms: machaire; -da; machrach;
Meaning: A large field or plain, sometimes used as equivalent of `mag´; of level or of cleared land; In late lang. sometimes = battle- field, battle:;
DIL 2012 M 12.46

machaire io, m., Later also f. acc. to IGT Dec. § 1 (np. machaire, -da). árnéis monaidh no machrach, Eg. Gl. 1 may represent a gs. form. A large field or plain, sometimes used as equivalent of `mag ´, but generally of a restricted area; of level or of cleared land. Gl. Tempe, Ir. Gl. 866 ; campester, 1060 (g.s. used as attrib.?). óen na primṡliab is mó bís for mórmachairi, TBC 1815. ra sidi répgaithi . . . dar muni machairi, 3382. bid toirthech do . . . m.€ ┐ caill, PH 4285. ro boí as cach dubt[h]air diaroile . . . ┐ ni tuc a haghaidh for m.€ never approached level (cleared or cultivated) land , Dinds. 87 (RC xvi 37 ). ro fassaigh m.€ na Muman, RC xviii 50.14 (Tig.). munu fuil machuire a fearann a athar (a boy is not to learn riding) unless there is a level field in his father´s land , Laws ii 158.8 Comm. isin nocht-m.€ . . . isin leth-m.€ (cleared and half-cleared land), iv 72.17 Comm. fo diamraib in macairi moir minscothaigh, Cog. 76.11 = in maigi, ib. 12. bláth an machaire (= flos agri, Psa. cii 15 ), TSh. 3799. gach uile ainmhidhe an mhachaire, Gen. iii 14. machairidh na caithreach the fields of the city , Josh. xxi 12 . machairigh ┐ fíneamhna, 1 Sam. xxii 7. gs. as attrib. : crích machairi champaign country , MU 14.29 = LL 264a3 . crosain [leg. crosán] m.€ a strolling rhymester (buffoon ), IT iii 85 § 83 , see Bruchst. i § 88 . In late lang. sometimes = battle- field, battle: toran na troda amhuil is gnath san uile mhachuire, Rel. Celt. ii 186.37 . gan machuire do thabhairt, 182.9. do chuireadur . . . techta uatha d´iarraidh m.€, Cín Láe Ó M. 42.29 . iarlacht mhachaire an earldom won by battle , O´Bruad. iii 222. Common in n.l. folld. by gen., see Hog. Onom. Machari, Trip. 108.19 = m.€ Connacht (name sometimes given to Mag Aí)? tréanfhlaith Mh.€ Caisil, Keat. Poems 1467 : cf. Maceria, Latinized name of Cashel, gs. Maceriae, Trip. 336.20 = L Ardm. 16b1 (late entry).

See eDIL (scroll down the page to Machaire) for the above with proper formatting:
http://edil.qub.ac.uk/dictionary/index2.php?letter=M&column=12

dubhthach · 21-08-2014 10:16am

The important thing here is that the Cois Fharraige coast of Galway bay undergoes constant erosion, for example look at out at Silver Strand, before the construction of the causeway to Mutton Island this posed a contuined issue to Galway harbour when it came to silting.

What's probable is that you are talking about small scale sea-rises that led to inundation, if you look at Galway Bay the 10metre depth line isn't that far offshore.

INFOMAR_Galway_Bathymetry%20(Custom).jpg

INFOMAR_Galway_Bathymetry%20(Custom).jpg

cfuserkildare · 21-08-2014 1:52pm

slowburner wrote: »

The word Machair originated in Donegal.

Technically the word " Machair " is a 16th or 17th century west Scotland term.

The Irish version of the word is " Machaire ".

Only a small difference, but different all the same.

Galway Bay

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