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The Earls of Barrymore DNA Project

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  • 29-07-2014 11:35am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭


    This has just been posted on the UCD website here: http://www.ucd.ie/medicine/news/july2014/title,210783,en.html. It sounds like an interesting project and involves forensic anthropology and DNA analysis:

    The Earls of Barrymore DNA Project

    A coalition of historians and academic scientists, including Dr René Gapert, a researcher in forensic anthropology at UCD School of Medicine & Medical Science, is using modern genetic science to unravel the mysteries of a prominent Irish family. Using techniques like those employed with the remains of King Richard III, they are about to conduct DNA testing of Richard Barry, 6th Earl of Barrymore, who died in Ireland in the 18th century.

    The Barry family came to Ireland in the 12th century with Norman and Welsh invaders and ruled vast tracts ofland in County Cork, later expanding to the rest of Ireland and, through immigration, throughout the world. The Barry’s had more than their share of controversy and turmoil. The family titles passed between branches and some of the heirs are alleged to have murdered their competitors. Richard Barry was descended from one branch, the Barry Roe or Red Barry’s, and the investigators hope that his DNA will help to determine how the branches are connected and how the Earls of Barrymore relate to living men with the Barry name.

    Jim Barry, the project administrator, is a former US government analyst and university professor who has been researching his ancestry for many years. Speaking about the project, Barry said

    "In my academic research, I focused on integrating different disciplines and this project is a great opportunity to blend history and modern genetic science. Like many Irish-Americans, I didn’t know where my ancestors lived before coming to America. It has only been in the past couple of years that DNA testing, combined with newly available records, showed that they came from a tiny village in the western part of County Cork. DNA has helped me to find cousins who still live there and my hope is that this project may link me to other Barry’s in Ireland."

    Barry is one of dozens of men who have done DNA tests and are eager to find out how they might be related to the Earl. One of them, Roger DuBarry, an English family historian, had Barry ancestors who left Ireland for France in the 15th century and changed their name there. Others live as far away as Australia and South Africa.

    Beyond the historical value, there is also excitement about the prospects for scientific discoveries. Dr René Gapert, a researcher in forensic anthropology at UCD School of Medicine & Medical Science , aims to establish a biological profile of the skeletal remains in the crypt. René has worked as a consultant forensic anthropologist on national and international cases and projects. Using forensic anthropological and anatomical methods, Dr Gapert can establish the age-at-death, sex, ethnicity and stature from the remains. René will also examine the bones for any signs of illnesses and trauma suffered during the lifetime of the individual or closer to the time of death. He has received licences under the National Monuments Acts 1930-2004 which permit him to remove bone and tooth samples for DNA analysis and radiocarbon testing.

    His colleague at UCD, Dr Sean Ennis, a clinical geneticist, whose team developed the programme Ancestry Mapper which looks at local and global population relationships, hopes that the project will help to refine methods for forensic analysis and DNA testing that will be valuable both to the academic community and to other Irish families who are exploring their roots.

    All of the professional members of the team are donating their time, and the project will begin as soon as funding for logistics has been secured. Information about the project can be found at https://sites.google.com/site/barrymorednaproject

    Note: This is an open press-release and may be shared in full in any media.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    The analysis of "ancient DNA" is going to be key really to telling us alot. With the continuing exponential fall in sequencing costs it's lot more viable to actually extract a viable sample.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    dubhthach wrote: »
    The analysis of "ancient DNA" is going to be key really to telling us alot. With the continuing exponential fall in sequencing costs it's lot more viable to actually extract a viable sample.

    It would be great to see if UCD can obtain a viable sample and analyse it while the other sample is being sent to an American lab according to the project website. Would be interesting to see if the results tally. Once this has been done it would provide a further opportunity in Ireland to undertake such sampling of historical but more recent remains as the only other Ancient DNA lab in UCD deals with samples from remains at least some 10,000 years old.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Preusse wrote: »
    It would be great to see if UCD can obtain a viable sample and analyse it while the other sample is being sent to an American lab according to the project website. Would be interesting to see if the results tally. Once this has been done it would provide a further opportunity in Ireland to undertake such sampling of historical but more recent remains as the only other Ancient DNA lab in UCD deals with samples from remains at least some 10,000 years old.

    So far there is no published data on "ancient DNA" from Ireland, other then one or two mtDNA samples. I believe there's some on going work in universities. This Earl of Barrymore project is specifically looking at the Y-Chromosome lineage. Barry like alot of surnames shows several distinct lineages.

    With alot of Irish surnames this is usually due name independently arising in several times independtly. So for example in my own Surname (Duffy) you can read that there are usually regarded as 3 distinct Duffy families in Ireland (each with a titular ancestor called Dubhthach). Unsurprising the DNA does indeed point to several Duffy lineages.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    dubhthach wrote: »
    So far there is no published data on "ancient DNA" from Ireland, other then one or two mtDNA samples. I believe there's some on going work in universities. This Earl of Barrymore project is specifically looking at the Y-Chromosome lineage. Barry like alot of surnames shows several distinct lineages.

    With alot of Irish surnames this is usually due name independently arising in several times independtly. So for example in my own Surname (Duffy) you can read that there are usually regarded as 3 distinct Duffy families in Ireland (each with a titular ancestor called Dubhthach). Unsurprising the DNA does indeed point to several Duffy lineages.

    In your opinion, would this project and the employed methodologies for DNA and anthropological analyses be of wider interest to the scientific and genealogical community in Ireland?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Preusse wrote: »
    In your opinion, would this project and the employed methodologies for DNA and anthropological analyses be of wider interest to the scientific and genealogical community in Ireland?

    Well I'm not a scientist (I work in IT) but I'd imagine so. First off it's a glimpse into 18th century Ireland, ideally they'll be able to sequence a good chunk of his genome (not just Y-Chromosome). The guys in the Barry project who are working with UCD this are obviously coming at it from genealogical point of view, if they can extract the Y-DNA they can then at least compare it with public databases.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    I agree, once they have the samples for Y-STR analysis they should have enough to do the whole. I suppose it is all a matter of financing beyond a genealogical family project.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Preusse wrote: »
    I agree, once they have the samples for Y-STR analysis they should have enough to do the whole. I suppose it is all a matter of financing beyond a genealogical family project.

    Well Y-STR's aren't really good enough. Generally in the academic community they only do panel of 17 or so STR's. The problem with this is you end up with a ton of spurious matches -- for example in larger Haplogroups (such as R1b) you can show up matches who you last shared a common ancestor with in the Bronze Age!

    Given that the testing is been done by FTDNA (they mention it's parent company) they will be hopefully doing at least 37 markers, of course if they have viable Y-Sample they should go the whole hog and sequence 111 STR's. Along with a decent SNP panel so as to give haplogroup assignment. Given that the body is in a mausoleum the remains should at least be in a decent enough condition.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    Ah yes, I understand now. Hopefully, that is what the company will do in the US. At least they should have enough samples to work with.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    Update.

    I heard a piece on this research project on Cork's 96FM (The Opinion Line Hour) earlier today. They made a podcast: http://www.96fm.ie/boxtube
    It can be found under "The Opinion Line Hour 3 August 13th.

    It seems to get more attention now.


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