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"The Origin of Specious Nonsense"

1…5556586061…201

Comments

  • #2852
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    J C wrote: »
    they all seem to be describing Natural / Sexual Selection or Speciation within Kinds .... which Creation Scientists accept .......it's the unfounded claims that Pondscum 'morphed' into Man, that Creation Scientists don't accept!!!
    Which is like saying that you accept fully that you can travel from here to the door, but can't travel to the shops or the next town.
    5uspect wrote: »
    there is no further point in feeding it other than for personal amusement.
    That's the spirit :)


  • #2853
    GO_Bear
    Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭GO_Bear


    8c957de1ce.png


  • #2854
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    housetypeb wrote: »
    Scanned? Scanned? Surely back in the day,when you used to be an evolutionary scientist,like you've claimed, you did more than scan it,you studied it.

    He never said he was an evolutionary scientist - he said he was a scientist and an "evolutionist". He's been very vague about what kind of scientist he was (current odds favour "computer scientist"), but it's obvious he's never studied evolution.


  • #2855
    NecroSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭NecroSteve


    Thee Arte Of Treaulling.


  • #2856
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    The Mad Hatter wrote: »
    He's been very vague about what kind of scientist he was (current odds favour "computer scientist"), but it's obvious he's never studied evolution.
    This discussion must have happened fairly recently (and been missed by me) in The Other Thread? Last time I do recall it coming up there a few years back, the general consensus was that JC had a minor qualification, possibly a national diploma, in something related to agriculture.

    At the same part of the debate, all the non-creationists were quite open about their qualifications. Most were science-related degree-level from irish universities over the last twenty years or so, including a number of masters and PhD's, qualified and in progress. While JC explained that she was too frightened to say what her qualification was, nor where she gained it (if she did), nor where she is working, lest her identity be discovered and she be "persecuted" :rolleyes:


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  • #2857
    housetypeb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    sJc quote-The ‘proof of the pudding is in the eating’ – and I can see no logical reason why Biologists who believe in evolution should know any more than me – when I completed the same NUI degree course as themselves, indeed coming third in my finals, as I recall. quote

    Post 71 ,pg 5. nov 2005, The bible,Creationism and prophecy comedy thread.
    Back then he/she/it would give long detailed cut and paste answers to posters,now he just repeats the same few posts over and over.

    Unnecessary troll comment deleted.


  • #2858
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    robindch wrote: »
    This discussion must have happened fairly recently (and been missed by me) in The Other Thread? Last time I do recall it coming up there a few years back, the general consensus was that JC had a minor qualification, possibly a national diploma, in something related to agriculture.

    At the same part of the debate, all the non-creationists were quite open about their qualifications. Most were science-related degree-level from irish universities over the last twenty years or so, including a number of masters and PhD's, qualified and in progress. While JC explained that she was too frightened to say what her qualification was, nor where she gained it (if she did), nor where she is working, lest her identity be discovered and she be "persecuted" :rolleyes:

    A month or two ago in the Other Thread. Wicknight made some comment about programming and suddenly J C sounded like he knew what he was talking about (more or less).


  • #2859
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    The Mad Hatter wrote: »
    A month or two ago in the Other Thread. Wicknight made some comment about programming and suddenly J C sounded like he knew what he was talking about (more or less).
    I always know what I'm talking about !!!:)


  • #2860
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    NecroSteve wrote: »
    Thee Arte Of Treaulling.
    ... just like most of the other Evolutionists on this thread, it sounds like you are quite experienced in 'Thee Arte' ... !!!:D


  • #2861
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    GO_Bear wrote: »
    8c957de1ce.png
    ... CFSI ... I like it!!!

    ... now listen to Lt. Horatio Caine ... and stop living in the illusion that is evolution and join the real world of Creation Science!!!


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  • #2862
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    Which is like saying that you accept fully that you can travel from here to the door, but can't travel to the shops or the next town.
    ... no ... it's like saying that I can walk to the door and to the shops ... but I can't walk to the Moon!!!:)


  • #2863
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    That's the spirit :)
    Do I detect a spiritual awakening??

    The Holy Spirit is telling me that God has great plans for you, Robin.

    ... plans to prosper you ... and plans to Save you.


  • #2864
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    J C wrote: »
    I always know what I'm talking about !!!:)

    Subjectively?


  • #2865
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    GO_Bear wrote: »
    Again, Pond scum did not morph into man, it started out with simple encapsulated self replicating DNA and over billions of years became more diverse and complex which ended up as modern man. Therein shows your lack of knowledge in the abiogenesis and evolution.
    Something that is impossible doesn't become possible by adding time. Something that is dead doesn't come back to life no matter how much time you give it.
    Materialistic processes can't do it ... but God can!!!
    GO_Bear wrote: »
    However, how is Pondscum morphing into man any less crazy than lets say , God creating man from dirt and women from one of mans ribs ?
    The difference between the two is capacity and intelligence.

    GO_Bear wrote: »
    Saved from what ?
    Hell.


  • #2866
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    The Mad Hatter wrote: »
    Subjectively?
    ... or even hypothetically ... or rhetorically!!!:D


  • #2867
    housetypeb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    J C wrote: »
    ...... Something that is dead doesn't come back to life no matter how much time you give it.

    WE have been telling you bible believers that for a long time-glad to see you accept it at last.


  • #2868
    Fluffybums
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭Fluffybums


    Discussing this with JC is like trying get FF to admit that their economic policy did contribute to the hole we are in!


  • #2869
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    housetypeb wrote: »
    WE have been telling you bible believers that for a long time-glad to see you accept it at last.
    ... only God can make something that is dead come to life!!!!

    ... He did it at Creation ... He did it at the Resurrection ... and He will do it again when He returns in Glory!!!!

    ... glad to see that you accept that something that is dead ... will remain dead, unless God intervenes!!!


  • #2870
    housetypeb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    J C wrote: »
    ... only God can make something that is dead come to life!!!!

    ... He did it at Creation ... He did it at the Resurrection ... and He will do it again when He returns in Glory!!!!

    ... glad to see that you accept that something that is dead ... will remain dead, unless God intervenes!!!


    Any proof for that apart from a 2000 year book of old jewish fairy tales that was put together by votes at a council?


  • #2871
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    housetypeb wrote: »
    Any proof for that apart from a 2000 year book of old jewish fairy tales that was put together by votes at a council?
    CFSI and ID.

    ... and do you have any basis for your unfounded belief in materialistic evolution ... apart from the circumspect writings of a Victorian Divinity Student?


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  • #2872
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    J C wrote: »
    CFSI and ID.

    Anything that actually exists?

    Incidentally, some day you'll see why that post of yours I linked is so hilarious. It's also further evidence that you will respond to anything, even if you don't have the first clue what you're talking about.


  • #2873
    housetypeb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    J C wrote: »
    CFSI and ID.
    So the proof that god can raise people from the dead is........CFSI and Id,
    Nice one ,Jc, misdirection is your forte.


  • #2874
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    housetypeb wrote: »
    So the proof that god can raise people from the dead is........CFSI and Id,
    Nice one ,Jc, misdirection is your forte.
    The proof that an Intelligence of Divine proportions Directly Created life is found in CFSI and ID.
    ... and if He did it once, He can obviously do it again!!!!:)


  • #2875
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    The Mad Hatter wrote: »
    Anything that actually exists?
    ... everything that exists!!!;)


  • #2876
    Dan133269
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭Dan133269


    J C wrote: »
    ... He did it at Creation ... He did it at the Resurrection ... and He will do it again when He returns in Glory!!!!

    When's he coming? I may want to get my good shirt out of the cleaners.


  • #2877
    GO_Bear
    Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭GO_Bear


    J C wrote: »
    Something that is impossible doesn't become possible by adding time.

    With enough time you would be surprised what is possible.
    J C wrote: »
    Something that is dead doesn't come back to life no matter how much time you give it.

    Then what about your Jesus ? If he existed after all he was just a mortal.

    I never said something that is dead came back to life I said that over billions of years the first and most simple organism began to form Could have been just a ball of Phospholipids.

    J C wrote: »
    Materialistic processes can't do it ... but God can!!!

    Sigh
    J C wrote: »
    The difference between the two is capacity and intelligence.

    So far there has been no evidence for intelligence. ( That has not been horribly debunked)

    Even the beautiful geometric snow flake was not formed by any intelligence, just natural processes.

    By your logic we could look at the symmetries of the snow flake, say its some kind of code, and that god must have created it

    J C wrote: »
    Hell.

    Sounds no different to you heaven


  • #2878
    NecroSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭NecroSteve


    J_C wrote:
    ... and do you have any basis for your unfounded belief in materialistic evolution ... apart from the circumspect writings of a Victorian Divinity Student?

    Ehhh... how about the entire science of evolutionary biology over the last century and a half?


  • #2879
    CiaranMT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭CiaranMT


    political-pictures-bashar-jaafari-shut-up.jpg


  • #2880
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Dan133269 wrote: »
    When's he coming? I may want to get my good shirt out of the cleaners.
    He can come for any of us at any time.


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  • #2881
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    GO_Bear wrote: »
    With enough time you would be surprised what is possible.
    ... but the impossible will remain impossible.


    GO_Bear wrote: »
    Then what about your Jesus ? If he existed after all he was just a mortal.
    ... He was a mortal Man ... and an immortal God.

    GO_Bear wrote: »
    I never said something that is dead came back to life I said that over billions of years the first and most simple organism began to form Could have been just a ball of Phospholipids.
    ... and a ball of Phospholipids it would remain without the addition of CFSI via an ultimate input of intelligence.



    GO_Bear wrote: »
    Sigh
    ... I once was an evolutionist too ... and I used to also sigh a lot too !!!!


    GO_Bear wrote: »
    So far there has been no evidence for intelligence. ( That has not been horribly debunked)

    Even the beautiful geometric snow flake was not formed by any intelligence, just natural processes.

    By your logic we could look at the symmetries of the snow flake, say its some kind of code, and that god must have created it
    ... snowflakes do not exhibit CFSI ... although the have complex information within their structures ... it is neither functional nor specified ... and thus doesn't require any input of intelligence to form it.



    GO_Bear wrote: »
    Sounds no different to you heaven
    It's somewhat hotter ... and an all round much more unpleasant place to be !!!;)


  • #2882
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    CiaranMT wrote: »
    political-pictures-bashar-jaafari-shut-up.jpg
    ... and God loves you too!!!:)


  • #2883
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    NecroSteve wrote: »
    Ehhh... how about the entire science of evolutionary biology over the last century and a half?
    Evolutionary Biology scientifically studies genetic drift within Kinds - and that is how all of the really useful discoveries, like AB resistance, are made!!!

    ... the 'millions of years' stories about non-repeatable (and evidentially unsupported) events, like the one about amphibians evolving into Mankind are strictly outside the realm of science - and are faith-based speculation.


  • #2884
    GO_Bear
    Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭GO_Bear


    J C wrote: »
    ... but the impossible will remain impossible.

    You don't know what is impossible. I know what is logical improbable.

    Was is not impossible to circumnavigate the world at one point ?


    J C wrote: »
    ... He was a mortal Man ... and an immortal God.

    Now that is logical improbable, are you even listening to your own argument ?

    The bible was written by men.

    J C wrote: »
    ... and a ball of Phospholipids it would remain without the addition of CFSI via an ultimate input of intelligence.

    More of your CFSI poppycock, It has already been hammered into the ground.
    The only thing that needs intelligence is you

    Information can be gained in nature by way of replication with variation and be maintained by natural selection.

    Flavobacterium have been found in ponds around Nylon factories with enzymes capable of digesting Nylon, a synthetic material only developed this century.
    A result of both a gene duplication and a frame shift mutation. <--- LOOK A MUTATION THAT DID NOT RESULT IN POLY MONGOLOID CHILDREN !!!!!


    J C wrote: »
    ... I once was an evolutionist too ... and I used to also sigh a lot too !!!!

    Good for you


    J C wrote: »
    ... snowflakes do not exhibit CFSI ... although the have complex information within their structures ... it is neither functional nor specified ... and thus doesn't require any input of intelligence to form it.

    Here we go with the ambigious use of you CFSI maimi. What do you mean by functional ? What do you mean by the information ? are we talking about the size and dimensions of the shapes ? Because that information would be part of giving the snowflake its overall shape. Which is a function.



    Define what you mean by Complex. after all snowflakes chemical are just frozen water molecules, thats rather simple, however structurally they are complex.

    Which again brings us around to the use of the term information. What information J.C ? Anything can be information.

    CFSI, It could mean anything folks.

    J C wrote: »
    It's somewhat hotter ... and an all round much more unpleasant place to be !!!;)

    What does it matter when it goes on for "eternity"


  • #2885
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    J C wrote: »
    ... the 'millions of years'
    Billions of years, JC, billions of years.

    If you're going to reject one of the cornerstones of modern science, then do try to reject it accurately.


  • #2886
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    robindch wrote: »
    Billions of years, JC, billions of years.

    If you're going to reject one of the cornerstones of modern science, then do try to reject it accurately.

    But if I represent the argument accurately it's harder to dismiss!!!!


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  • #2887
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,518 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    robindch wrote: »
    Billions of years, JC, billions of years.

    If you're going to reject one of the cornerstones of modern science, then do try to reject it accurately.

    Has he ever done that? I doubt he can even give an accurate account of what evolution actually says.


  • #2888
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    J C wrote: »
    Evolutionary Biology scientifically studies genetic drift within Kinds - and that is how all of the really useful discoveries, like AB resistance, are made!!!
    I haven’t been on the other thread for a while; could you do me a favour please? Can you explain, exactly, what a “kind” is? You know, how are kinds defined, an couple of examples of different kinds and what is in them and what isn’t?

    MrP


  • #2889
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    MrPudding wrote: »
    I haven’t been on the other thread for a while; could you do me a favour please? Can you explain, exactly, what a “kind” is? You know, how are kinds defined, an couple of examples of different kinds and what is in them and what isn’t?

    MrP

    The definition of Kinds change all the time (depending on how the argument is phrased).
    Robin once made a rather amusing list of 'known kinds'.


  • #2890
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    Galvasean wrote: »
    The definition of Kinds change all the time (depending on how the argument is phrased).
    Robin once made a rather amusing list of 'known kinds'.

    That was me! :(

    (Link)


  • #2891
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    GO_Bear wrote: »
    You don't know what is impossible. I know what is logical improbable.

    Was is not impossible to circumnavigate the world at one point ?
    It was always possible to circumnavigate the world ...
    ... as a scientist I know that it is impossible to break the Laws of Thermodynamics ... and therefore perpetual motion machines and Materialistic Evolution are impossibilities!!!!

    GO_Bear wrote: »
    Information can be gained in nature by way of replication with variation and be maintained by natural selection.
    CFSI cannot be produced by random processes like mutation/variation ... and replication merely reproduces existing CFSI.
    GO_Bear wrote: »
    Flavobacterium have been found in ponds around Nylon factories with enzymes capable of digesting Nylon, a synthetic material only developed this century.
    A result of both a gene duplication and a frame shift mutation. <--- LOOK A MUTATION THAT DID NOT RESULT IN POLY MONGOLOID CHILDREN !!!!!
    ... just part of the genetic diversity infused into bacteria at Creation ... and expressing itself now with the advent of Nylon!!!!

    GO_Bear wrote: »
    Here we go with the ambigious use of you CFSI maimi. What do you mean by functional ? What do you mean by the information ? are we talking about the size and dimensions of the shapes ? Because that information would be part of giving the snowflake its overall shape. Which is a function.
    ... functionality is the exhibition of a useful feature that is specific to the entity concerned. Living organisms are bristling with functionality and specificity ... the unique complex shapes of snowflakes exhibit no functionality or specificity ... and they therefore don't exhibit CFSI.


    GO_Bear wrote: »
    Define what you mean by Complex. after all snowflakes chemical are just frozen water molecules, thats rather simple, however structurally they are complex.
    You are correct that great complexity can be achieve through the interaction of simple processes ... snowflakes and fractals are good examples of this phenomenon. However, what sets living organisms apart from fractals and snowflakes is the specific functional nature of biomolecules ... and that is why CFSI cannot arise by non-intelligently directed means ... while fractals and snowflakes can produce an infinity of different complex shapes ... with none of them exhibiting functionality or specificity.
    You really do need to attend some lectures on Intelligent Design.
    GO_Bear wrote: »
    Which again brings us around to the use of the term information. What information J.C ? Anything can be information.
    You are correct that anything can be 'information' ... but we are not talking about 'anything' when we find Complex Functional Specified Information ... we are talking about languages in print, voice and DNA ... which all have originated by an ultimate input of Intelligence.

    GO_Bear wrote: »
    What does it matter when it goes on for "eternity"
    If you are in Hell ... eternity is a long, long time!!!!


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  • #2892
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    wrote:
    Originally Posted by Galvasean
    The definition of Kinds change all the time (depending on how the argument is phrased).
    Robin once made a rather amusing list of 'known kinds'.

    The Mad Hatter
    That was me! :(
    Great to see such competition amongst Skeptics to present aspects of Creation Science!!!!:D


  • #2893
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    J C wrote: »
    It was always possible to circumnavigate the world ...
    ... as a scientist I know that it is impossible to break the Laws of Thermodynamics ... and therefore perpetual motion machines and Materialistic Evolution are impossibilities!!!!

    Oh this will be good.
    How exactly does evolution break the laws of thermodynamics JC?
    And which law exactly does it break?


  • #2894
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    Billions of years, JC, billions of years.
    ... when it comes to the supposed 'transition' from amphibians to man ... it is measured in hundreds of millions of Evolutionist Years ...
    Amphibians are believed by Evolutionists to have arisen in the late Devonian period in the Paleozoic Era about 365 million Evolutionist years ago ...
    .. and therefore I am correct that it is millions ... and not billions of Evolutionist years.
    robindch wrote: »
    If you're going to reject one of the cornerstones of modern science, then do try to reject it accurately.
    Please try to be accurate ... yourself!!!:eek:


  • #2895
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    Oh this will be good.
    How exactly does evolution break the laws of thermodynamics JC?
    And which law exactly does it break?
    Only an ultimate input of intelligence can use external energy to locally decrease entropy.

    Entropy increases with the appliance of non-intelligently directed/harnessed energy.

    An uncontrolled explosion increases entropy ... while a controlled explosion in, for example, an intelligently designed engine cylinder can be used to intelligently decrease entropy and produce local increases in ordered complexity.

    As the person who discovered that an ultimate intelligent input as well as an external energy source are required to locally decrease entropy ... I should get a Nobel Prize ... but I'm not holding my breath!!!!


  • #2896
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    J C wrote: »
    Only an ultimate input of intelligence can use external energy to locally decrease entropy.

    Entropy increases with the appliance of non-intelligently directed/harnessed energy.

    An uncontrolled explosion increases entropy ... while a controlled explosion in, for example, an intelligently designed engine cylinder can be used to intelligently decrease entropy and produce local increases in ordered complexity.
    Well we both know that's not how thermodynamics work and why this nonsense doesn't even apply to evolution.

    But I am disappoint JC, I was hoping for more of your maths.
    J C wrote: »
    As the person who discovered that an ultimate intelligent input as well as an external energy source are required to locally decrease entropy ... I should get a Nobel Prize ... but I'm not holding my breath!!!!
    Yes you sure did JC, you are very clever indeed....


  • #2897
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    Yes you sure did JC, you are very clever indeed....
    Thanks King!!!:D


  • #2898
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    J C wrote: »
    Thanks King!!!

    No you see JC it's "King Mob" you have to say the whole thing.


  • #2899
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    No you see JC it's "King Mob" you have to say the whole thing.
    I thought we were on 'first name' terms Mr. Mob!!!!:)
    ... but I will call you King Mob from now on ... if that is what you desire.


  • #2900
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    J C wrote: »
    I thought we were on 'first name' terms Mr. Mob!!!!:)
    It's still "King Mob" and you still have to say the full thing.
    otherwise you might run the risk of looking like a total idiot.


  • #2901
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    It's still "King Mob" and you still have to say the full thing.
    otherwise you might run the risk of looking like a total idiot.
    ... I have now said the whole thingamy ... so what does that make you look like???


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