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Equal Access to Education

  • 15-07-2015 3:30pm
    #1
    Zamboni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭


    Do you believe all children in Ireland should have equal access to State funded school places?

    Do you think it is wrong that parents are forced to "fake" Catholicism to get their children into state funded school places?

    Do you think it is wrong that change in the education system is currently forced from grassroots organisations like Educate Together and that instead, the Irish State should show leadership in adapting the education system to meet the demands of an ever changing population?

    Did you know that 90% of state funded school places in Ireland exist within Catholic schools?
    But over 30% of weddings in 2014 are non-religious.
    • We seek the removal of the Section 7.3 (c) from the "Equal" Status Act 2000 which permits discrimination against children from minority or no faith from state funded school places.
    • We seek increase in funding for multi-denominational schooling and the introduction of non-denominational schooling.
    • We seek immediate action by the state to divest schools from the Catholic Church as sought for by the Archbishop Diarmuid Martin.

    Please like the page below and share the posts if you agree :)

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Equal-Access-to-Education-Ireland/1642829079286825


    Notes:
    This has been run past the mods.
    The page is not anti-religion or anti-Christian.
    We seek only for the state to provide an Education System that meets the demands of its dynamically changing population.


Comments

  • #2
    Zamboni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Would anybody be interested in joining #socdem with us and ensuring school patronage becomes a leading issue in the next general election?

    Strength in numbers!

    1. Like our FB page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Equal-Access-to-Education-Ireland/1642829079286825
    2. Join Social Democrats http://www.socialdemocrats.ie/join
    3. Attend meetings and raise the issue of school patronage at every opportunity.
    Simples :)

    Bonus point
    4. Run as a candidate under equal access to education banner

    They want supporters and candidates - we want this issue resolved.


  • #3
    lazygal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    It isn't just about access to schools that infiltrate the entire day with religion. I hate the idea of my children being "accommodated" in a school run by religious orders. Schools should be independent of religion. Focusing on access just continues the lie that religious education can and is inclusive.


  • #4
    Zamboni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    lazygal wrote: »
    It isn't just about access to schools that infiltrate the entire day with religion. I hate the idea of my children being "accommodated" in a school run by religious orders. Schools should be independent of religion. Focusing on access just continues the lie that religious education can and is inclusive.

    The complete secularisation of the education system is the ideal and ultimate aim.
    This is one of many stepping stones towards that ultimate goal.
    On a practical basis we have to fight for children, right now, who cannot access schools or have to travel serious distances.

    Our causes are not mutually exclusive, they are congruent :)

    Story I have told before here. My Asian neighbours are currently converting to Catholicism because the priest would not baptise their child unless they were Catholics. They are place 300+ for any Educate Together in the vicinity.
    This is wrong and should be stopped immediately.


  • #5
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Are Social Democrats making this one of their core issues, have they said that?


  • #6
    Zamboni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Are Social Democrats making this one of their core issues, have they said that?

    No not at all. They have made no position on it at all.
    But Socdems is currently three people. Political parties need people.
    Let's be the people that join and make this a core issue.

    [Insert] something cheesy like "Be the Change" :)


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  • #7
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Unfortunately one of the first promises the Social Democrats made was to abolish water charges, so right off the bat we have mindless, opportunistic, vote grabbing populism. Now believe me I'm not looking forward to paying water charges but I hate parties that jump on that bandwagon, it's just more of the same!

    Now my apologies for getting side tracked, religious discrimination in the Irish education system is appalling, children of both religious and non religious parents should be free to access their local schools without any problem. Also the curriculum should not favour any religion or atheism and certainly should not teach either as literal fact, just teach children what is known, encourage curiosity about the unknown and allow them the freedom to make their own minds up.

    As for the up coming election, sadly none of the parties involved are representing any genuine secular views as far as I can see, dare I say we need a new party, one which doesn't hop on the water charges gravy train just for mindless votes, a Liberal Conservative party would be nice (very socially liberal and economically relatively conservative).


  • #8
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,219 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    Unfortunately one of the first promises the Social Democrats made was to abolish water charges, so right off the bat we have mindless, opportunistic, vote grabbing populism. Now believe me I'm not looking forward to paying water charges but I hate parties that jump on that bandwagon, it's just more of the same!

    Now my apologies for getting side tracked, religious discrimination in the Irish education system is appalling, children of both religious and non religious parents should be free to access their local schools without any problem. Also the curriculum should not favour any religion or atheism and certainly should not teach either as literal fact, just teach children what is known, encourage curiosity about the unknown and allow them the freedom to make their own minds up.

    As for the up coming election, sadly none of the parties involved are representing any genuine secular views as far as I can see, dare I say we need a new party, one which doesn't hop on the water charges gravy train just for mindless votes, a Liberal Conservative party would be nice (very socially liberal and economically relatively conservative).

    I agree. I have huge respect for the three SocDems and the work they do, but when they said they'd abolish water charges I lost a lot of that respect.

    Fix the problems with the water charges, but saying you'll abolish them shows little forethought as to what that would actually mean.


  • #9
    Zamboni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    Unfortunately one of the first promises the Social Democrats made was to abolish water charges, so right off the bat we have mindless, opportunistic, vote grabbing populism. Now believe me I'm not looking forward to paying water charges but I hate parties that jump on that bandwagon, it's just more of the same!

    Now my apologies for getting side tracked, religious discrimination in the Irish education system is appalling, children of both religious and non religious parents should be free to access their local schools without any problem. Also the curriculum should not favour any religion or atheism and certainly should not teach either as literal fact, just teach children what is known, encourage curiosity about the unknown and allow them the freedom to make their own minds up.

    As for the up coming election, sadly none of the parties involved are representing any genuine secular views as far as I can see, dare I say we need a new party, one which doesn't hop on the water charges gravy train just for mindless votes, a Liberal Conservative party would be nice (very socially liberal and economically relatively conservative).

    I've been waiting for a political party that represents me for my whole life and it's taken me years to acknowledge that fact that none ever will.
    I do take what you're saying. But we cannot rule out a party on singular issues.


  • #10
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Zamboni wrote: »
    I've been waiting for a political party that represents me for my whole life and it's taken me years to acknowledge that fact that none ever will.
    I do take what you're saying. But we cannot rule out a party on singular issues.

    That's true you can't but it was a very disheartening start, to be honest I don't really trust politicians at all anyway, especially at election time when the lies go into overdrive and I blame the electorate as much for that. Politicians only tell lies to get elected, hence people only vote for liars, telling the truth is career suicide for a politician, so we never really hear their true intentions pre-election.

    Ps, just to add, I wonder will Atheist Ireland be sending out pre-election questions to all the main political parties and politicians like they did in 2011, you can get them on their website if haven't already seen them. I hope they do, again you can't expect politicians to tell the truth (most people don't want to hear it) but their responses can make for an interesting and entertaining read.


  • #11
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,480 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    Unfortunately one of the first promises the Social Democrats made was to abolish water charges, so right off the bat we have mindless, opportunistic, vote grabbing populism.

    Exactly it's taking the easy option of telling people what they want to hear, will the rest of their policy be the result of principled analysis or populist piffle?

    Scrap the cap!



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  • #12
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,557 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Zamboni wrote: »
    Do you believe all children in Ireland should have equal access to State funded school places?

    Do you think it is wrong that parents are forced to "fake" Catholicism to get their children into state funded school places?

    Do you think it is wrong that change in the education system is currently forced from grassroots organisations like Educate Together and that instead, the Irish State should show leadership in adapting the education system to meet the demands of an ever changing population?

    Yes to all three. I've a friend who moved back to Ireland recently who said that he's planning to have any children he might have baptised as "insurance" against anti-Catholic discrimination. I remember watching a video of The Late Late show which I am now unable to find where Tubs, in his smug manner tells people coming to Ireland who bemoan the lack of non-Catholic education options that Ireland is a "Catholic country". Madness.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #13
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Yes to all three. I've a friend who moved back to Ireland recently who said that he's planning to have any children he might have baptised as "insurance" against anti-Catholic discrimination. I remember watching a video of The Late Late show which I am now unable to find where Tubs, in his smug manner tells people coming to Ireland who bemoan the lack of non-Catholic education options that Ireland is a "Catholic country". Madness.

    I've been living in London for the past few years but I will be returning to Ireland at the end of 2016. One of my biggest concerns about moving back and starting a family is the religious overtones in nearly all aspects of life in Ireland. It's big when you live there but the whole scale of it is so disheartening when you look from the outside in.

    My partner is Catholic so I've made some concessions already when it comes to having a church wedding, but knowing that I'll have to get my future children baptised simply so they can get into their local school actually fills me with dread. I had always hoped that I could raise my kids to think rationally so that they don't get as easily fooled later in life, but now I face this being completely undermined by the entire education system.

    There are no political parties that have truly secular missions, they all target the biggest numbers of people and we are a minority. It does not benefit any party to care what we want or believe, even if the UN agrees with us, as long as the general public think otherwise.

    There are issues like water charges that seem to have the government locked into going against what the people want (whether it's to abolish them or simply to have another look at how it is set up and run) because of the bailout deals, but then there are issues like education which do not change because the people of Ireland have not shown enough interest in it. The majority of people may not be in favour the Catholic Church running our schools, but enough of them think that it's acceptable so that the government feels no need to change it. Catholic rituals like first communions are so engrained in our society that people could be against the church, but not want to take away their little girl/boy's chance to dress up and have a special day.

    People don't care about atheists, they don't see us as being oppressed. We often compare the treatment of atheists to the treatment of the LGBT community, but the Pride parade didn't begin because a gay man wasn't allowed be a judge. People look at our issues and think that we are just winging and moaning.


  • #14
    Zamboni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Please sign the petition to remove Section 7(3)(c) of the Equal Status Act 2000 :)
    Good publicity around this at the moment.

    https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/The_Joint_Oireachtas_SubCommittee_on_Public_Petitions_Equal_school_access_for_unbaptised_children/?pv=11&fb_action_ids=104734356537305&fb_action_types=avaaz-org%3Asign


  • #15
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Zamboni wrote: »
    Please sign the petition to remove Section 7(3)(c) of the Equal Status Act 2000 :)
    Good publicity around this at the moment.

    https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/The_Joint_Oireachtas_SubCommittee_on_Public_Petitions_Equal_school_access_for_unbaptised_children/?pv=11&fb_action_ids=104734356537305&fb_action_types=avaaz-org%3Asign

    was featured on the Last Word on Today FM this evening, how anyone can argue against removing this out of date nonsense from tax payer funded schools is beyond me.


  • #16
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,964 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Cabaal wrote: »
    was featured on the Last Word on Today FM this evening, how anyone can argue against removing this out of date nonsense from tax payer funded schools is beyond me.

    Did they have a Catholic majoritarian for "balance"?


  • #17
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Did they have a Catholic majoritarian for "balance"?

    nope, any catholic organizations apparently couldn't come on the radio to comment....funny that


  • #18
    Zamboni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Cabaal wrote: »
    was featured on the Last Word on Today FM this evening, how anyone can argue against removing this out of date nonsense from tax payer funded schools is beyond me.

    Paddy will also be on TV3’s Ireland AM programme at 7.40am tomorrow (Wednesday 29 July) to discuss his petition to remove Section 7.3(c) of the Equal Status Act.


  • #19
    Zamboni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Cabaal wrote: »
    was featured on the Last Word on Today FM this evening, how anyone can argue against removing this out of date nonsense from tax payer funded schools is beyond me.

    Was just on the Last Word again with Ian Guider.

    This topic is getting a LOT of publicity at the moment.


  • #20
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Zamboni wrote: »
    Was just on the Last Word again with Ian Guider.

    This topic is getting a LOT of publicity at the moment.

    No harm, didn't catch the last word.
    How was the support for it?


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