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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    I think there's good justification sometimes, in using particularly egregious publications, to reduce the credibility of a particular article or journalist - if you take for example, Reason magazine, it has an incredibly long history of promoting highly dubious/disreputable viewpoints, so I think it's justified to discard it out of hand; it's important for practical reasons, as time-wise it's just not practical to keep on giving something benefit of the doubt every time it comes up, when it has an extremely long and well established history, of being highly dubious.

    So, Reason would have a very high 'shítty journalists/articles' ratio, across most topics, whereas the Guardian would be a lot more mixed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    Turtwig wrote: »
    This is my personal pet peeve. I hate people referring to publications solely. List the journalist and publication responsible for the garbage. Journalists often freelance between multiple publications e.g

    "Stephen W Thrasher wrote this trash in the Guardian. "

    The reason being is that many publications have decent writers. Journalism itself is at such a low ebb singling out bad publications isn't going to help fix anything. People need to avoid the ****ty journalists. Of course, the irony here is that the ****ty articles will probably be shared more than the good ones. :( Still, it's best that folks are made aware of who the terrible writers are. Save their time. :)

    By the by just to give Mr Thrasher the benefit of the doubt. It's only if he's a frequent contributor of nonsense should we avoid him. Every journalist is entitled to their barmy moments.

    I'd agree to a certain extent, but with the collapse of print media I find it very hard to give the benefit of the doubt to online publications that scrounge around for any old controversial rubbish for the sake of some add revenue.

    I've read buckets of great articles on the Guardian but it's clearly home to a cohort of the sort of loonies this thread was created for. That wasn't the only silly article about the Oscars or the first load of nonsense I've read published on their site in the past few months.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    jank wrote: »
    My initial post was made in reference to the unlikely alliance of christen conservative asking people to not see the movie, [SNIP] and self labeled feminists even though the target audience are adult women themselves.

    You seem to be ignoring how different the reasoning behind both calls to boycott are. The conservatives are calling to boycott because it contains sex and light bdsm, while the femanists are calling to boycott it because it romanticises a horribly abusive relationship (that happens to involve sex).
    (going so far as you cannot see the movie in small Donegal town because its 'peverted' http://www.thejournal.ie/buncrana-cinema-fifty-shades-1923084-Feb2015/)

    From the article you quoted:
    In a statement on Facebook, Buncrana Cinema said:

    Hey folks. The real reason we aren’t showing 50 Shades of Grey is because the distributor didn’t give it to us! Unfortunately, as a small community run cinema, we don’t have the capacity to run 4 shows a day, 7 a days a week! Anything else you hear is made up!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Gbear wrote: »
    I'd agree to a certain extent, but with the collapse of print media I find it very hard to give the benefit of the doubt to online publications that scrounge around for any old controversial rubbish for the sake of some add revenue.

    I've read buckets of great articles on the Guardian but it's clearly home to a cohort of the sort of loonies this thread was created for. That wasn't the only silly article about the Oscars or the first load of nonsense I've read published on their site in the past few months.

    Oh by all means list the publishers. That's wholly important. My gripe is solely with not mentioning the journalist as they can move around and there's nothing worse than getting sense of deja vu and realising you read this shyte before just for a different publication.

    Komrade, I have an author strike system:
    Three strikes and I won't read your articles/contributions for a year. Then you get two chances. Or one, depending on how bad the thing was. Anyone can change their opinion, improve their quality of writing, have topics where they're emotionally attached to their viewpoints etc. Including ourselves! So I think it's only apt to keep an open mind and read the less reputable stuff every now and again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Komrade, I have an author strike system:
    Three strikes and I won't read your articles/contributions for a year. Then you get two chances. Or one, depending on how bad the thing was. Anyone can change their opinion, improve their quality of writing, have topics where they're emotionally attached to their viewpoints etc. Including ourselves! So I think it's only apt to keep an open mind and read the less reputable stuff every now and again.
    That's a useful system, though there are some journalistic sources you have to be very careful of, as they are designed specifically to put out propaganda - I'm very careful not to subject myself to much/any of that where I am able to find enough discreditable information about a publication, because I believe everyone (including myself) is susceptible to being taken-in/fooled by poor sources like that.

    Being fooled into believing the wrong information, can completely destroy your ability to think critically about and actually learn a subject (and I mean completely - to the point that you won't even be aware of faults in your thinking) - it can set you back years, or even permanently; economics is, in my view, the single worst topic, when it comes to this - it's so bad, that even the vast majority of economists are not aware of the massive faults in what they believe.

    That said, there'd be a very big difference between a journalistic outlet that is putting out propaganda (I'd have zero tolerance to that), and e.g. an author making an honest mistake (which I'd have no problem with, given an openness to learning from the mistake on the authors part - which is a good approach to learning).


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    There has been many a bad radio interview but the gold standard of the so called 'car crash interview' now belongs to Natalie Bennett, Leader of the UK Green Party.
    With the UK general election now almost two months away and mainstream parties struggling, minority parties are leading the race to mop up votes in an effort to be the power broker in any future Westminsiter government. There has been a Green surge seen in the Polls which of course leads to more media attention on their policies....

    Its bad..., its so bad I thought at one stage she was going to pull a sicky live on air.... (Did she have her 'flu' when she thought you can build 500,000 homes with 2.7 Billion?)



    If a party has grand plans to provide state funded goodies to would be voters at least have the pretense that you have costed it. Fans of shinnernomics and utopian Socialist Party/AAA/PBP economic policy, please take note for GE 2016.

    At least any TV debate Natalie Bennett presents herself in would be fun to watch.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    jank wrote: »
    [...] the gold standard of the so called 'car crash interview' now belongs to Natalie Bennett, Leader of the UK Green Party [....]
    A nice own-goal there - your clip slagging off the "left" for doing a bad interview starts with that ongoing story of Malcolm Rifkind -- former Conservative Foreign Secretary, former Conservative Defence Secretary and one or two other roles under both Conservative PM Margaret Thatcher and Conservative PM John Major -- extending the free market into the purchase, by people he thought were representatives of a Chinese company, of access to high-ranking diplomats.

    #oops :rolleyes:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    robindch wrote: »
    A nice own-goal there - your clip slagging off the "left" for doing a bad interview starts with that ongoing story of Malcolm Rifkind -- former Conservative Foreign Secretary, former Conservative Defence Secretary and one or two other roles under both Conservative PM Margaret Thatcher and Conservative PM John Major -- extending the free market into the purchase, by people he thought were representatives of a Chinese company, of access to high-ranking diplomats.

    #oops :rolleyes:

    Only Malcolm Rifkind? lol :) The 'cash for access' is a generic political scandal which has implicated both establishment parties, the Tories and Labor alike. Jack Straw former Labour Defense Sectary under Blair and Brown has been implicated like Malcolm Rifkind.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-24/senior-british-ex-ministers-accused-over-cash-for-access-claims/6240902

    This actually ties in nicely with my previous preamble as to why so many people are now looking for alternatives than the traditional big two of British politics, whereby media focus is now on these new emerging parties with (the above) consequences of car crash radio.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Only Malcolm Rifkind? lol :) The 'cash for access' is a generic political scandal which has implicated both establishment parties, the Tories and Labor alike. Jack Straw former Labour Defense Sectary under Blair and Brown has been implicated like Malcolm Rifkind.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-24/senior-british-ex-ministers-accused-over-cash-for-access-claims/6240902

    This actually ties in nicely with my previous preamble as to why so many people are now looking for alternatives than the traditional big two of British politics, whereby media focus is now on these new emerging parties with (the above) consequences of car crash radio.....

    ...or car crash TV, for that matter.
    http://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/jaw-dropping-insight-into-ukip-airs-32052/


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Wrong thread Nodin ;)


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Jeremy Howling Raffle


    robindch wrote: »
    A nice own-goal there - your clip slagging off the "left" for doing a bad interview starts with that ongoing story of Malcolm Rifkind -- former Conservative Foreign Secretary, former Conservative Defence Secretary and one or two other roles under both Conservative PM Margaret Thatcher and Conservative PM John Major -- extending the free market into the purchase, by people he thought were representatives of a Chinese company, of access to high-ranking diplomats.

    #oops :rolleyes:

    Whataboutery surely?

    Drawing attention to stupidity on both sides still draws attention to the stupidity on the side that jank is 'aiming' at.

    That they might have inadvertently included a "Right wing politician is corrupt" isn't an own goal really is it?

    That interview is horrendous for so many reasons. Exposing an issue with the impossibilities of undeliverable promises (rings some bells about what is going on in Europe at the moment surely?) being presented as policies. Realism is important in politics. Both 'sides' are being (and always should be!) called to task on this I'd have thought?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    jank wrote: »
    Jack Straw former Labour Defense Sectary under Blair and Brown has been implicated like Malcolm Rifkind.
    Can't say that I'd ever have described Jack Straw as being very left wing. In fact, I seem to remember that Labour had to rebrand their party as "New Labour" so as to make the departure from traditional left-wing politics even move obvious.
    Whataboutery surely?
    Yes, entirely whataboutery. No attempt to engage with other posters or to discuss any issue, even trivially. Just random finger-pointing really. I'd probably have to card, then ban, myself if I did this all the time :rolleyes:


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,506 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Didn't former Lib Dem leader Charles Kennedy fall apart in an interview a few years ago? Think it transpired he had a few drinking issues.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    'The left' have largely been co-opted into adapting right-wing economic views, typically centered around NeoLiberalism and the neoclassical school of economics (which is predominant); paying for these promises is rarely a problem due to economic possibilities, but instead due to limited political possibilities.

    Despite that, a minority among 'the left' are the only actual people with solutions to the economic crisis - such as Greek FM Yanis Varoufakis' 'Modest Proposal' (largely utilizing centralized EU bonds at low interest rates, to fund an EU-wide fiscal boost, where the only thing stopping it is dysfunctional EU politics), and stuff like Yanis' 'Future-Taxes-coin' plan which can be undertaken without EU help, which we may see used to boost Greek fiscal spending - similar to Robert Parenteau's 'Tax Anticipation Notes', which does much the same thing, even within the Euro.

    Plans like these are dismissed not out of economic reasons, but largely out of ideological reasons - given the advantages periods of economic turmoil, provide to the lucky few within certain sectors of the economy, who are in a position to take advantage of crisis (e.g. I'm sure those who hold a predominant share of financial assets at the moment, the wealthy and finance industry, are loving the use of QE as a false 'solution' to our economic problems, when it primarily just inflates asset prices and effectively provides a subsidy to the wealthy and finance - I'd say they'd hate to see any real solutions replace it).

    The people benefiting from this crisis, will of course always try to dismiss actual solutions to it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    A party making promises that the country can't afford. Sounds familiar.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Didn't former Lib Dem leader Charles Kennedy fall apart in an interview a few years ago? Think it transpired he had a few drinking issues.


    He did, then he consolidated them into one single very large issue. Very sad in ways, as he was in that 'turn up pissed drunk, deny drinking' stage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    Centralized EU bonds don't 'conjure up' money out of thin air, any more than an individual countries bonds do - and if Greece/Ireland (or any other country for that matter), wants to use FT-coins or TAN's, then the EU doesn't need to be consulted.


    It's funny really, that right-wing posters don't understand that all money is conjured out of thin air - since we're using a fiat currency; they come out with this 'magic money tree' nonsense, as if the idea of money being created from nothing is obviously ridiculous, when that's exactly how it's been done for the best part of a century.

    It's like they think we're still in the gold standard or something - their economic views are based on theory which is that out of date - and don't understand that central banks are effectively the 'magic money tree' that they disparage.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    robindch wrote: »
    Can't say that I'd ever have described Jack Straw as being very left wing. In fact, I seem to remember that Labour had to rebrand their party as "New Labour" so as to make the departure from traditional left-wing politics even move obvious.

    Well his student days tell a very different story but I suppose what Tony Blair did with 'new' Labour was drag them into the 20th century and leave the old Soviet era Marxist ideology behind them for good. A growing up process if you like but still a pity that they didn't leave their love of spending behind them as well.

    It is funny though that left wing parties are often very good at waving magic money tree policy pre election but when it actually comes to running a country reality is a vey quick to pull the rug from under lofty high-minded spoofers . The Irish Labour party and more recently Syriza have learnt this and now the Greens are finding out what it means to put forward rubbish as a policy.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Probably belongs here...
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-31638993
    A Dumbarton lollipop man has been banned by the local council from "high-fiving" children as they cross the road.

    Nkosana Mdikane, 74, is known as "Scotland's happiest lollipop man" due to his singing and dancing at work.

    West Dunbartonshire Council said safety fears were behind the decision.

    But school parents have questioned the council's reasoning, with one father David Dufton starting a Facebook campaign to try to reverse the move.

    Logic 'flawed'
    A statement from West Dunbartonshire Council said: "All patrollers are instructed when crossing children over a road to remain static with one hand on their stick and the other stretched outwards. This ensures that they can be seen and effectively provides a barrier between school pupils and the traffic."

    High fives for the Scottish Labour Party?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Probably belongs here...
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-31638993



    High fives for the Scottish Labour Party?


    I'm seeing plenty of stupid, but nothing left wing....


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Who runs the council? ;)


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Jeremy Howling Raffle


    jank wrote: »
    Who runs the council? ;)

    Ah that's woeful woeful reasoning!

    Was nationalising the banks a right wing decision because Fianna Fail were in power?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Well nationalisation is generally viewed as a socialist/left leaning belief, so no. However, over the top busy body 'health and safety' legislation about all minute facets of life is certainly a friend of the left.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Ah that's woeful woeful reasoning!
    That class of reasoning is endemic amongst those excellent citizens who divide the world into opposing, simplistic camps of "left" and "right". Indeed, it's one of the reasons the thread's being left(*) open.



    (*) And I mean "left" in the sense of "remaining" instead of the prevailing local meaning of "honkingly, forehead-slappingly stupid".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    I was gonna make some quip about mistaking health & safety with political correctness, but I see you've already pretty much cut me off at the pass on that one Jank. I guess it's easy to keep pointing out those whacky lefties when your definition of left wing is basically "anything I don't like" :o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Who runs the council? ;)


    "New" Labour. However I'm not seeing the left wing reasoning behind the decision, myself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    Centralized EU bonds don't 'conjure up' money out of thin air, any more than an individual countries bonds do - and if Greece/Ireland (or any other country for that matter), wants to use FT-coins or TAN's, then the EU doesn't need to be consulted.


    It's funny really, that right-wing posters don't understand that all money is conjured out of thin air - since we're using a fiat currency; they come out with this 'magic money tree' nonsense, as if the idea of money being created from nothing is obviously ridiculous, when that's exactly how it's been done for the best part of a century.

    It's like they think we're still in the gold standard or something - their economic views are based on theory which is that out of date - and don't understand that central banks are effectively the 'magic money tree' that they disparage.

    Of course they never talk about the "magic money tree" that is the unregulated fractional reserve banking so beloved of right-wing economists and politicians. Oh right, that's because its in the hands of private banks which are unaccountable to anybody, and therefore incapable of doing anything illegal or immoral.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Of course they never talk about the "magic money tree" that is the unregulated fractional reserve banking so beloved of right-wing economists and politicians. Oh right, that's because its in the hands of private banks which are unaccountable to anybody, and therefore incapable of doing anything illegal or immoral.
    Ya - and the banking system is not even fractional reserve (i.e. not even really limited by reserves, as the 'money multiplier' theory is false) - money for loans is literally created from nothing, not taken from savings/deposits as right-wing types always presume - i.e. they, as you say, pretty much function exactly like the 'magic money tree' these people disparage :)


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    "New" Labour. However I'm not seeing the left wing reasoning behind the decision, myself.

    Writing a letter to a (very popular) lollipop man and asking him to not high five children due the 'Health and Safety" is an example of what some people call 'The Nanny State'. It appears all agree that the decision to write this letter is stupid (does anyone disagree?), yet "New" Labor are very much for this over reaching state that tells individual's how to run their lives in very minute details.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4044815.stm
    In a speech in London, Mrs Hodge insisted the government had a "powerful" role to play in family life.

    She said "good nannies" were not just about telling you what you must do but about "ensuring you can make real and informed choices for yourself".

    80 years ago you would have had the local vicar or priest running around telling people how to live their lives. Roll onto today we have faceless bureaucrats doing pretty much the same and people lap it up (like they did religion in the day). People are worshipping at the alter of the ever knowing and ever 'good' state.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Writing a letter to a (very popular) lollipop man and asking him to not high five children due the 'Health and Safety" is an example of what some people call 'The Nanny State'. It appears all agree that the decision to write this letter is stupid (does anyone disagree?), yet "New" Labor are very much for this over reaching state that tells individual's how to run their lives in very minute details.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4044815.stm



    80 years ago you would have had the local vicar or priest running around telling people how to live their lives. Roll onto today we have faceless bureaucrats doing pretty much the same and people lap it up (like they did religion in the day). People are worshipping at the alter of the ever knowing and ever 'good' state.

    And this is the preserve of the "left" is it?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    And this is the preserve of the "left" is it?

    By all means put forward another theory and engage in the topic..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    By all means put forward another theory and engage in the topic..


    Well, my theory is that there is no trace indicated of specifically "left wing ideology" in that incident.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    You sure you're not thinking about the right wing? As an example, Romney and Ryan promised to close the tax loopholes in the run up to the 2012 election. When quizzed on which loopholes exactly, their rehearsed reply was very specific, "all of them." Just like magic. Presumably all the magical money they would have brought in, had they not lost, could have been pumped into the Military–industrial complex. Christians just love a bit of war, and those pesky brown Ayrabs got it comin'.

    No doubt Romney is an expert (or at east has hired experts) on tax loopholes. Romney could lecture on tax avoidance and offshore bank accounts.

    Here's a left wing idea in action:

    This Billionaire Governor Taxed the Rich and Increased the Minimum Wage -- Now, His State's Economy Is One of the Best in the Country
    When he took office in January of 2011, Minnesota governor Mark Dayton inherited a $6.2 billion budget deficit and a 7 percent unemployment rate from his predecessor, Tim Pawlenty, the soon-forgotten Republican candidate for the presidency who called himself Minnesota's first true fiscally-conservative governor in modern history. Pawlenty prided himself on never raising state taxes -- the most he ever did to generate new revenue was increase the tax on cigarettes by 75 cents a pack. Between 2003 and late 2010, when Pawlenty was at the head of Minnesota's state government, he managed to add only 6,200 more jobs.

    During his first four years in office, Gov. Dayton raised the state income tax from 7.85 to 9.85 percent on individuals earning over $150,000, and on couples earning over $250,000 when filing jointly -- a tax increase of $2.1 billion. He's also agreed to raise Minnesota's minimum wage to $9.50 an hour by 2018, and passed a state law guaranteeing equal pay for women. Republicans like state representative Mark Uglem warned against Gov. Dayton's tax increases, saying, "The job creators, the big corporations, the small corporations, they will leave. It's all dollars and sense to them." The conservative friend or family member you shared this article with would probably say the same if their governor tried something like this. But like Uglem, they would be proven wrong.

    Between 2011 and 2015, Gov. Dayton added 172,000 new jobs to Minnesota's economy -- that's 165,800 more jobs in Dayton's first term than Pawlenty added in both of his terms combined. Even though Minnesota's top income tax rate is the 4th-highest in the country, it has the 5th-lowest unemployment rate in the country at 3.6 percent. According to 2012-2013 U.S. census figures, Minnesotans had a median income that was $10,000 larger than the U.S. average, and their median income is still $8,000 more than the U.S. average today.

    Contrast this with Brownback's 'red state experiment'
    Gail Jamison, a lifelong Republican, voted for Sam Brownback for governor in 2010 believing he would restore school funding that had been greatly reduced by the recession.

    Four years later, she has joined with more than 100 prominent Republicans in publicly throwing their support behind Brownback’s Democratic opponent — because, she said, Brownback pursued a hefty tax cut for the rich that deprived schools of needed resources.

    “I am shocked by what’s happened,” said Jamison, president of the Board of Education in this Wichita suburb. “I find it personally a very extreme stance.”
    Advised by Arthur Laffer, the father of supply-side economics, and supported by special interest groups backed by conservative billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch, he pushed through legislation that cut taxes and spending, eliminated state jobs and denied far more applications for welfare assistance — not to mention that he tightened abortion regulations and loosened gun rules.

    Brownback promised that the efforts would drive economic growth, create jobs and stabilize the Kansas budget. But the state is now reporting a more than $300 million revenue shortfall. The poverty rate increased. The state’s economy expanded a total of 2.3 percent in inflation-adjusted terms over the past two years, half the rate of its four neighbors. And Kansas’s credit rating has been downgraded.

    I remember there was a farmer interviewed in Kansas (The Daily Show I think) about how many more people he would employ now that he had so much more money in his pocket. "None" was his reply. An employer only hires when it's absolutely vital to the business, not because they have spare cash. 'Job creators', ha!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,964 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Sure, Brownback's experiment wasn't true libertarianism. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Sure, Brownback's experiment wasn't true libertarianism. :rolleyes:

    You're not doing it right, you should just say "HAH! Look at this crazy lefty loony" because that's how it's done in this thread, you just claim anything bad is left.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Reading up on the Greeks lately this quotation from 2010 stood out.
    . In just the past decade the wage bill of the Greek public sector has doubled, in real terms—and that number doesn’t take into account the bribes collected by public officials. The average government job pays almost three times the average private-sector job. The national railroad has annual revenues of 100 million euros against an annual wage bill of 400 million, plus 300 million euros in other expenses. The average state railroad employee earns 65,000 euros a year. Twenty years ago a successful businessman turned minister of finance named Stefanos Manos pointed out that it would be cheaper to put all Greece’s rail passengers into taxicabs: it’s still true.

    Will provide source later.
    If that quote is accurate that's surely a contender for this thread? :)


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    Well, my theory is that there is no trace indicated of specifically "left wing ideology" in that incident.

    Even when we had the example of a Labour minster espousing the virtues and 'good' of a nanny state?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Even when we had the example of a Labour minster espousing the virtues and 'good' of a nanny state?

    Even so. I seem to remember the Conservative passed Criminal Justice act back in the mid 90's was nannying with added cane. Not that labour are any slouches, but it's hardly the preserve of the "left" (though I have my doubts as to how left labour are).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    It's funny really, that right-wing posters don't understand that all money is conjured out of thin air - since we're using a fiat currency; they come out with this 'magic money tree' nonsense, as if the idea of money being created from nothing is obviously ridiculous, when that's exactly how it's been done for the best part of a century.

    Hilarious that a person who self-identifies as a 'financier' has to be schooled by someone who he has criticised as having 'whacky monetary theories'.

    I'm trying to figure out if you're actually blissfully unaware that fiat money is conjured out of thin air and is intrinsically worthless or whether you're purposefully using terms like 'magic money tree' in a failed attempt to stigmatise dissenting economic views.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,506 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    This came up in my podcast feed. I've not listened to it yet, but thought it may be of interest to the OP.

    Do Liberals Stifle Intellectual Diversity On The College Campus?



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Good video. Worth a watch. Some scary examples there of liberal students and administrators cutting off the right to an individuals free speech. The motion was easily carried as well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    jank wrote: »
    Good video. Worth a watch. Some scary examples there of liberal students and administrators cutting off the right to an individuals free speech. The motion was easily carried as well.
    Both liberals and conservatives are culpable in cutting off the right to an individuals free speech. The difference? Liberals usually attempt to do it out of what they think are good intentions, to protect minorities and so on, however misguided they may be.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    K4t wrote: »
    Both liberals and conservatives are culpable in cutting off the right to an individuals free speech. The difference? Liberals usually attempt to do it out of what they think are good intentions, to protect minorities and so on, however misguided they may be.

    You could just as easily argue conservatives do it with good intentions too. Most people have good intentions the goods they deliver just happen be evil and they don't know it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    Turtwig wrote: »
    You could just as easily argue conservatives do it with good intentions too. Most people have good intentions the goods they deliver just happen be evil and they don't know it.
    Of course. My post wasn't meant as liberals good conservatives bad! but more in relation to the liberal apologist behaviour we see in the media and from governments regarding self censorship. I'd be considered as very conservative in my views on the right to free speech, as I believe in as little restrictions and limits on it as possible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Turtwig wrote: »
    You could just as easily argue conservatives do it with good intentions too. Most people have good intentions the goods they deliver just happen be evil and they don't know it.

    Eh, I think right-wingers are a bit more open about expressing their self-interest, left-wingers are more prone to hide their self-interest behind a "for the good of society" spiel.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    Fixed your post there by adding the (important) missing condition.

    Not sure how many people who self-describe as liberals will do this though. Personally, I know of one -- there certainly are others.


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