Looking for an excavation to be done...

slowburner wrote: »

Why are locals making lots of significant finds? Has something happened to the site?
If so, any damage or alterations to a national monument must be reported to the National Monuments Service in the first instance. They will determine whether or not a rescue excavation is required.
Excavations can only be undertaken by licensed archaeologists and the funds required can be substantial.

Okay so here goes,

Where I am from near Birr Co. Offaly and across the road from the house is basically a huge wood with mounds and trenches in it. 5 mounds over 5ft tall at least. I studied archaeology as part of a module during my degree and did a mini thesis on the rath as part of a project and it turns out that the place is much more than what is actually thought of. About 80 years ago cottages were built across the road from it and a lane way was built separating the monument from the houses- the lane way itself is about 10 ft from the actual site. There is a gated off this lane to go into the field and into the wood. My dad remembers the mounds being so high when he was small that the needed to help each other up them (they would all have been big men) and the trees used be so big two people couldn't get their arms around them. growing up to me the mounds were always huge too. My grandad had a great love of ancient irish history like i did and measured the mounds to be over 6ft in his time, he died in the late 60s and his work was thrown in the back of an attic until I found it. He has documented finds from locals which include swords, jewellery, keys (huge ones), bones, a dagger and much more. He never said who had found them or what had happened, only for the fact that the sword that was found was returned to the fort and reburied because of the bad luck a young fella had got from it.

The significance to my family is that our house I believe is built on the fort also. When the cottage was being built there was a stone taken from the fort with markings on it and used as a foundation stone in our house, it's right under one of the bedrooms and as you can imagine, this has brought a fair amount of activity to the house itself. Over the years there have been stories about things that have been seen inside and outside of the house and since my granny passed away 20 years ago, nobody has been able to stay inside the house the first week of november with the stuff that goes on. Thats a whole other story.

There is a little ring fort just beside it where locals say unbaptised babies were buried for years in the 1700s onwards because it was believed to be the place where the original site of Birr would have been and also the home of St. Brendans first church. The Fadden Psalter was found about 4km away as the crow flies.

My aunt has a field at the back of her house that has a hill in it also but i believe this to be an outer mound and one of many which was probably flattened during construction of the lane/road and houses. All the mounds inside the fort are now about 1/3 the size they were and they are slowly slipping because the roots of the tiny trees there now cannot keep the soil together.

the place is truly beautiful and theres nothing I love to do more than go in and chill out there on the centre mound for an hour or two when I'm down there. The original farmer had all the trees cut down and now the farmer who owns the land lets the sheep crawl all over it (there is no grass cover really in there at all) and there has been stuff dumped on it.

I think its also fitting to mention, in areas around the fort by the mounds you can literally jump off them and you will here a deep echo. There are 3 underground tunnels, one goes to a similar fort in lorrha/rathcabbin, one to the nearby bog and one to birr castle. This is all local knowledge and I believe that about 30 years ago the tunnel was opened by two locals and closed again when the gardai got hold of them. something about the gases built up inside being extremely dangerous.

The of the fort is and is an unexcavated national monument. no sign post leads to it, nobody knows it is there only the farmer that owns the land and the neighbours. It has been mentioned in the Annals as far as I know, and a few more places. I have been onto the archaeologists in UCC about it but I really think it needs to be looked at. By the way, I believe a Garda bought land next to it years ago and built a huge house on it, its about 40ft maybe less from the main mound, the mounds actually run into his garden. I remember briefly reading a paper saying the area had significant links to with Teamhair, Ttlachtga (not sure if this is even a place, I just had the name written down) or somewhere else from stuff I was able to get in libraries in Dublin etc.

I don't know exactly why, I feel so passionate about this place, since I could walk my Dad used say, I would spend all night and all day out there when we were down at the house. I'd just sit in there are stare up at the sky. I just feel something is there and is undiscovered and could be a fantastic find.

I have pictures here somewhere that I'll try attach.

Has anyone advice? I used to have dreams of me going in there with a shovel! and I know my family are itching to find out whats underneath JUST because it has such strong ties to the actual house.

Here is the pic of it from satellite view.

mocmo wrote: »

Pinkycharm I admire and understand your passion for this site but it unfortunately is not as simple as just getting an excavation done, off the top of my head here's why, and this is by no means an exhaustive list;

All excavations are licenced/permissioned by the state, in order to get such permission you need a very good reason for an excavation. In this case the objective would be research and you would need a team of professional archaeologists and a lot of money!

Part of the condition of getting permission is proving you have the funds to carry out the work and archaeological excavation is a costly process. To fully excavate a site like this would take years and the costs would likely run into hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions. Not only do you have costs when digging (equipment, staff, insurance etc etc) but everything you find has to be fully researched, written up, published and in the case of artefacts conserved. Post-excavation is extremely important, without it the excavation is pointless and the finds will crumble to dust

Archaeology is a destructive process, to excavate something and find out what lies within and underneath it you have to essentially destroy it, believe me the beauty of your site would be seriously compromised by its excavation.

Excavations on national monuments are really quite rare. Interestingly Tlachtga (a very real and important site in Co Meath) was subject to some research excavation this year. The permission to excavate (only three small trenches on a very big site) was granted following many years of research, funding applications and a very clear research agenda approved by the National Monuments Service. Have a look at the Excavations at Tlachtga facebook page. They would be very interested in hearing about any connection with your site.

I know I am coming across as very negative but unless you have a lot of money and a team of professional archaeologists an excavation is very unlikely to occur.

In terms of your own research, you say a house was built right next to the site, planning permission for that should have had (but might not!) an archaeological condition whereby an archaeologist would have checked the site first for remains. If this did occur a report should have been lodged with National Monuments and you could follow this up and maybe find out more about the site. If you can tell us the name of it or the townland you might find someone who posts here has more information of can point you on the road to finding out more about it.

One thing to mention; you say you would love to go over there with a shovel and do some digging, I urge you not to do that. It is against the law and very destructive. I am sure others will have more to add to what I have said.

I really do admire your passion for the site and wish you well in your research.

Btw I am a professional archaeologist and I wish I had a proper job!

Thanks so much for the reply!! There are actually 2 archaeologists in the family that were going to take it upon themselves and get permission to excavate about 10 years ago but one has since passed and the other wouldnt do the job by himself.

It is an absolute massive site, I will drive down soon and post pics of everything here.

There was no planning permission granted for the cottages, (across the road), because they were houses belonging to workers on a plantation site nearby. the original walls of the house go back to at least 1600 I think. The new build was built there early 80s I believe and anyone in their right mind would have refused the fella permission. the original owner has moved on and house is vacant i think for last 5 years.

It was made a national monument in 1970s I believe but basically all that happened was a fella came out and stuck down the stone with the sign on it and said to the neighbours, nobody was to go near it, that it had great significant importance to the history of ireland and that someone would eventually come and excavate. I can get my hands on pics that people have of stuff found there but they would hate to have to give them up, lots have put them in glass cases etc, I can definitely get my hands on the key that was found.

Its such a shame that its not, I know it might ruin it but it would be great to get its official story from finds, again the history of the hill it is on itself is vast and loads of finds have been made in the gardens of all of the houses as well.

so i guess i have to win the lotto

In another life, I think I would have been a great archaeologist!! the stories of this place are fascinating! I just wish i could find out more. Unfortunately, my own research can only go so far and just stick to the history books that it is mentioned in.

This is the size of the site from the side, if anyone is interested! I should be down there soon, so will be able to get pics, if people would like to see them
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.09088,-7.938774,3a,75y,54.91h,80.83t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sKsExUE8FlZATzEs6QqOi6w!2e0