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Using deposit as the last months rent.

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  • 11-01-2012 6:15pm
    #1
    muineachan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭


    Hi,

    I've a moral dilemma, whether to use my deposit as my last months rent? The landlord has been terrible, I have never physically met him, he operates though an agent (who is just a guy, not an agency) the place is falling to pieces and while I am reasonable, it took them 3 months to fix a leak, 6 months to fix the boiler properly, the list goes on, granted the house is an old 4 bed but I still expect the basics. i would call and call and always get "yeah ill send someone" then nobody turns up, this goes on for weeks and months until it is eventually fixed.

    My last landlord was a crook who stole my deposit and this set up doesn't give me any confidence that I will ever see my deposit back. There is no proper contract in place, the agent signed a piece of paper from his car for my deposit.

    I am an honest person, but that hasn't got me anywhere in the past, it has only made me poorer. So you can understand my dilemma. What are the legalities regarding this? would you use your deposit as your last months rent?
    Post edited by L1011 on
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    #2
    edellc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭edellc


    I have been shafted in the past by LL also so now I play it by ear if the LL is nice and actually sticks to their part of the lease ie fixing things when they break in a reasonable time etc then I give the required notice and expect my deposit back, if however they behave like the last crook I had to deal with ie taking months to fix a boiler in the winter of 2009/10 with the snow, taking months to buy a new bed as the one that was their when we moved in was broken (you really dont know these things before you hand over your deposit) and just being an aggressive idiot then no I dont give them notice nor do I pay them the last months rent I just move and play them at their own game the feckers

    As for what they can do well the reality of it is nothing yes we have the prtb and threshold but we dont have laws to enforce what either these agencies say not do we have laws so LL or tenents (whoever is getting screwed ) can bring the other to court looking for unpaid fees...both agencies can only make recommendations on how to behave


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    #3
    muineachan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭muineachan


    edellc wrote: »
    I have been shafted in the past by LL also so now I play it by ear if the LL is nice and actually sticks to their part of the lease ie fixing things when they break in a reasonable time etc then I give the required notice and expect my deposit back, if however they behave like the last crook I had to deal with ie taking months to fix a boiler in the winter of 2009/10 with the snow, taking months to buy a new bed as the one that was their when we moved in was broken (you really dont know these things before you hand over your deposit) and just being an aggressive idiot then no I dont give them notice nor do I pay them the last months rent I just move and play them at their own game the feckers

    As for what they can do well the reality of it is nothing yes we have the prtb and threshold but we dont have laws to enforce what either these agencies say not do we have laws so LL or tenents (whoever is getting screwed ) can bring the other to court looking for unpaid fees...both agencies can only make recommendations on how to behave

    Thanks that makes me feel less bad about what I intend to do. I know that if I play by the rules and hand over my last months rent it is me that will get screwed. So like yourself i've had those problems and now I know what I am going to do!!


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    #4
    petethebrick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭petethebrick


    Absolutely use your deposit as the last months rent. It's the only way to deal with a bad landlord who will undoubtedly fail to return your deposit otherwise


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    #5
    toexpress
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭toexpress


    The deposit cannot be used in part or full for rent by the tenant.

    The purpose of a deposit is to cover any damage over and above normal wear and tear to a property and cover any rental arrears that may fall due.

    Conversely a Landlord cannot retain a deposit without evidence to substantiate their reasons for keeping it and they may not keep a deposit for the early termination of a lease agreement.


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    #6
    Senna
    Registered Users Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    Most LL think that the house should have zero wear and tear and will keep the deposit because something is worn or not as new looking as it was 2 years ago when you moved in. For this reason i would use the deposit as last months rent if you have any doubts about the LL.
    But if the LL has been fair with you then you should wait for him/her to give you the deposit back.


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    #7
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    toexpress wrote: »
    The deposit cannot be used in part or full for rent by the tenant.

    The purpose of a deposit is to cover any damage over and above normal wear and tear to a property and cover any rental arrears that may fall due.

    Conversely a Landlord cannot retain a deposit without evidence to substantiate their reasons for keeping it and they may not keep a deposit for the early termination of a lease agreement.
    I completely agree with toexpress.

    In the UK, the deposit is usually one and a half or twice the deposit which helps to overcome this problem - and the UK have the deposit scheme which also adjudicates when there is a dispute. I can see the day coming when landlords will ask for more than a month's rent as the deposit.


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    #8
    muineachan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭muineachan


    If there was a process like the UK or a board with whom the deposit is lodged then I wouldn't be worried. But as it is in the reality of my situation is far from adjudicators, its a terrible landlord who I am sure is going to take my deposit and there is littlw I could do about it if he did.

    So either he can be a crook, or I can safeguard my money. Im an honest person, if I had damaged the place Id pay, but I am leaving it as it came, so given his track record im not going to give him chance to rob me.


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    #9
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    muineachan wrote: »
    If there was a process like the UK or a board with whom the deposit is lodged then I wouldn't be worried. But as it is in the reality of my situation is far from adjudicators, its a terrible landlord who I am sure is going to take my deposit and there is littlw I could do about it if he did.

    So either he can be a crook, or I can safeguard my money. Im an honest person, if I had damaged the place Id pay, but I am leaving it as it came, so given his track record im not going to give him chance to rob me.
    Unfortunately, as using the deposit as the last month's rent (or for any rent payment) is not permitted, I cannot advise you to do that.

    And the UK system has its problems as well - don't kid yourself in thinking it is the best thing since sliced bread! It ain't.


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    #10
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    muineachan wrote: »
    Hi,

    I've a moral dilemma, whether to use my deposit as my last months rent? The landlord has been terrible, I have never physically met him, he operates though an agent (who is just a guy, not an agency) the place is falling to pieces and while I am reasonable, it took them 3 months to fix a leak, 6 months to fix the boiler properly, the list goes on, granted the house is an old 4 bed but I still expect the basics. i would call and call and always get "yeah ill send someone" then nobody turns up, this goes on for weeks and months until it is eventually fixed.

    My last landlord was a crook who stole my deposit and this set up doesn't give me any confidence that I will ever see my deposit back. There is no proper contract in place, the agent signed a piece of paper from his car for my deposit.

    I am an honest person, but that hasn't got me anywhere in the past, it has only made me poorer. So you can understand my dilemma. What are the legalities regarding this? would you use your deposit as your last months rent?

    Please do it with no qualms. IF the landlord was a reasonable and good man who was abiding by tenancy law, fine, But he is not.

    This kind of landlord makes it all but impossible to keep the law. I am nto saying that tw wrongs make a right but that circumstances and behaviour give unusual choices.

    We had an illegal eviction notice at our previous house; owner decided to move back from the US. We started action via PTRB who advised he was totally in the wrong, but the year lease had only four months to run and ended in November so we knew a move was imminent and as we have serious health issues needed to be safe before winter.

    On pensions, there was no way we could afford new deposit etc; we approached the ll who refused early refund. So we spoke with a solicitor friend who opined yes it is illegal but no judge would rule against us in this situation and because of our obvious poverty.

    So we withheld the last month's rent. No qualms, no regrets.

    We deal with realities after all...


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    #11
    toexpress
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭toexpress


    muineachan wrote: »
    If there was a process like the UK or a board with whom the deposit is lodged then I wouldn't be worried. But as it is in the reality of my situation is far from adjudicators, its a terrible landlord who I am sure is going to take my deposit and there is littlw I could do about it if he did.

    So either he can be a crook, or I can safeguard my money. Im an honest person, if I had damaged the place Id pay, but I am leaving it as it came, so given his track record im not going to give him chance to rob me.

    Just remember that if you do this you are in contravention of the agreement to which you signed your name. There are courses of action for dealing with such instances and this is not the correct one. You should consider which is better having to wait 18 months and fight for your money or blackening your own name to save a few bob. Personally I would stand and fight, no-one would steal my money nor would they back me into the corner of doing the wrong thing.


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    #12
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    toexpress wrote: »
    Just remember that if you do this you are in contravention of the agreement to which you signed your name. There are courses of action for dealing with such instances and this is not the correct one. You should consider which is better having to wait 18 months and fight for your money or blackening your own name to save a few bob. Personally I would stand and fight, no-one would steal my money nor would they back me into the corner of doing the wrong thing.

    And claiming damages for unjustifiably retaining all or part of the deposit. Damages in many instances have been in excess of €1,000.


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    #13
    toexpress
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭toexpress


    odds_on wrote: »
    And claiming damages for unjustifiably retaining all or part of the deposit. Damages in many instances have been in excess of €1,000.

    I don't understand what you are saying there at all or what any of that is about


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    #14
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    toexpress wrote: »
    I don't understand what you are saying there at all or what any of that is about

    Just a few instances from PRTB Dispute decisions:
    DR338/2009
    Respondent Landlord shall pay the total sum of € 2,425 to the Applicant Tenant, within 7 days of the date of issue of this Order, € 1,200 being the entire security deposit unjustifiably retained, damages of € 1,200 for retaining the deposit and € 25 in respect of re-imbursement of the Applicants PRTB application fee
    In the above case, I am assuming that the tenant also claimed for the return of his costs for making the claim. I think that under normal circumstances, if you do not claim for something, you cannot "add" something to the initial claim (see last paragraph in post).
    DR1393/2008
    The Respondent Landlord shall pay the total sum of €3,746.77 to the Applicant Tenants, within 7 days of the date of issue of this Order, being the balance of the deposit of €2,100, having deducted €153.23 for cleaning costs, plus €1,800 damages for wrongly withholding the security deposit,
    DR1251/2008 & 1342/2008
    The Respondent Landlord shall pay the total sum of €4,200 to the Applicant Tenants, within 14 days of the date of issue of this Order, being the unlawfully retained security deposit of €1,200, and damages of €3,000
    In the above case, one can only assume that the damages given must refer to the deposit as there is no mention of anything else.

    I have never been involved in a claim with the PRTB. However, my understanding is that if a claim for damages for withholding the deposit unjustifiably or any other claim for damages or expenses, is not made in the initial claim, then they would not be awarded.


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    #15
    toexpress
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭toexpress


    Yeah when were those judgements made?


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    #16
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    toexpress wrote: »
    Yeah when were those judgements made?

    The clue is in the dispute Ref N°. and you can check the decision on the PRTB site

    IMHO, the resolution date is immaterial - the precedent has been set.


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    #17
    toexpress
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭toexpress


    It's not at all immaterial as there have been a number of cases through the High Court where the PRTB has made financial awards for compensations which has exceeded it's jurisdiction.


This discussion has been closed.
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