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Leaving the lease??

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  • 06-01-2014 2:24pm
    #1
    jake F
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭


    Heya

    I moved into a house in drumcondra 5 years ago with a mate of mine. We moved in cause we were both attending college at the time but have both finished now.
    We renew our lease every year, which is up for renewal in July.

    He is working in the local corner shop and I have a job in a big accounting business down the quays. The rent is quite steep but we had no where else to go. Because of the job thing we both pay our share of the rent but i pay the majority of the bills.

    Recently My bosses have offered me a better payed job in Canada. I have told my landlord this he said it was fine but i don't get my deposit back, which I am okay with. However when I told my roommate that I was going to find someone else to move into the room he went crazy and refused to let me leave.

    This I know has nothing to do with the fact that i am leaving but the fact I pay the more of the bills and am quiet lax with house situation and a new person probably won't. I have asked a friend and they said cause i am not getting my deposit back i can just leave is this true???

    Thank you
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    #2
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    ok your post has lots of mistakes in it (including from the LL)

    If you have a joint lease with your housemate and not individual room let agreements (this is a very important point)

    Then you are both jointly and severely libel for the rent until July.

    Now you moving out doesn't change that one little bit. You and he/she are both still libel for the full rent every month until July.

    If you find somebody else to move in (and it should be you doing this as your the one that wants to leave and not your housemate) and that person takes your place on the lease you are fully entitled to your deposit back.

    That new person should then replace you on the lease and that should be the end of it.

    If the LL refused to allow somebody else replace you on the lease then you (and your housemate) are both legally entitled to break the lease with no penalty.

    Now if of course you have signed different room agreements all the above is irrelevant. So first thing you need to do is clarify. Have you signed one lease or individual agreement each ?


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    #3
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Do you rent the property as a whole or have you each got leases for your seperate rooms?

    A landlord cannot tell you that you wont be getting your deposit back; it may only be retained to make up for lost rent, and if there is no shortfall in rent from your leaving, or the shortfall does not reach the value of the deposit then you are entiteld to expect all/part of the deposit to be returned, regardless of the manner of your departure.

    If you plan on leaving regardless then realistically your housemate is going to have to find a way to come to terms with this and realise that their options are to either find (with your help) someone to replace you, or to terminate the lease altogether and find somewhere else to rent. Its not a nice situation for them to find themselves in, but it is what it is and them "refusing to let you leave" is not going to get them very far!


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    #4
    jake F
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭jake F


    heyo

    It is a joint agreement and my landlord said that i can find a replacement but it is my roommate that refuses to let anyone move. Hence this is why my landlord want to keep my deposit as my roommate is going to make it difficult for anyone else to move in, so my LL is going to lose rent. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.


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    #5
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Your roommate needs to grown up and stop throwing his toys out of the pram here.
    Advertise the room and have viewings, find a replacement.

    Your roommate has to realise that you shouldn't be jeopardising your career for his childish behaviour and he has two choices;
    (i) find a replacement roommate;
    (ii) he pays all the rent & bills until July.


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    #6
    jake F
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭jake F


    heyo

    this what my friends have being saying to me but i don't want to leave him under major financial pressure. My landlord only knows about the trouble he is causing cause he rang them and said that he doesn't want a stranger living with him and as my name is on the lease I will have to continue paying rent while I am in Canada. Which is ridiculous!!! It has been like this for the the past three weeks and I am leaving in a week. My friends have just told me to pack up and go, cause he just wants me to stay to pay the bills. Should I just leave????


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    #7
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    jake F wrote: »
    heyo

    It is a joint agreement and my landlord said that i can find a replacement but it is my roommate that refuses to let anyone move. Hence this is why my landlord want to keep my deposit as my roommate is going to make it difficult for anyone else to move in, so my LL is going to lose rent. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

    The landlord isnt going to be out of pocket for rent. If you have a joint lease then you are bother jointly responsible for the rent, meaning that if you leave your housemate is still expected to pay the full rent. If they make it difficult for anyone else to move in then its them that is going to suffer ultimately.

    The landlord is not obliged to return your portion of the deposit, but that doesnt mean that its theirs to keep. The deposit covers the tenancy, not the tenants, and it will be returned when the tenancy ends. If a new tenant comes in to replace you then typically they would give you their half of the deposit, and then you would get your half back when the tenancy ends.

    To be honest, you really need to sit down and talk this out with your housemate. Given their reaction, it might be best to consider you both moving out, and looking to reassign the remainder of the lease to a third party.


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    #8
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    jake F wrote: »
    heyo

    this what my friends have being saying to me but i don't want to leave him under major financial pressure. My landlord only knows about the trouble he is causing cause he rang them and said that he doesn't want a stranger living with him and as my name is on the lease I will have to continue paying rent while I am in Canada. Which is ridiculous!!! It has been like this for the the past three weeks and I am leaving in a week. My friends have just told me to pack up and go, cause he just wants me to stay to pay the bills. Should I just leave????

    He is not wrong; you are still liable to pay the rent while youre name is on the lease. If a replacement is not found then you are both still jointly and fully liable for the entirety of the rent.

    To be honest, its your responsibilty to find your replacement here, but given the circumstances its obviously best for your housemate to find someone that they can live with. Youre both handling it very badly; it should not have gotten to a stage where you are leaving in a week without having this sorted.

    At this point, your housemate needs to cop on a bit and realise that ultimately you are going to be living half away across the world in a few days time, and they are going to be left on the hook for the rent. This is the situation that you have put them in, but it doesnt look like that is going to change now, so they need to find a way to make it work for them.


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    #9
    jake F
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭jake F


    Heyo

    I have tried to sit down and talk to him, but he won't listen to reason. He seems to think that if he puts up a fight and refuses to let anyone else in then i won't leave or i will continue paying rent. Honestly I am getting a bit fed up of him just storming off when we try and talk about it.


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    #10
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Can you remove him from the equation and just line up a replacement without his input?


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    #11
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    It's up to you to make him listen to reason unfortunately. Right now his options are find someone else to move in, pay the rent on his own (assuming you're prepared to leave your responsibilities behind and bail on him and the lease that you signed) or move out. There is no point in him burying his head in the sand; it's not going to go away, the landlord is still going to want the full rent and is in no way obliged to step in and assist with this mess.


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    #12
    jake F
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭jake F


    Eh he works night shifts in the shop and spends the day sleeping or sitting on the couch so i can't bring people in. I already tried bringing a young women in to look at the room she had great references and everything and he was sitting on the couch when he saw her he just started screaming at her until she ran out in tears. I took the ad down after that that was two and a half weeks ago cause i thought he needed a bit more time to adjust but he refuses to change his stance.

    The next big issue is that I am moving all my stuff out in two days either to be sent to Canada or be put into storage. I am afraid he will not like this as he can get very violent when is angry.


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    #13
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    jake F wrote: »
    Eh he works night shifts in the shop and spends the day sleeping or sitting on the couch so i can't bring people in. I already tried bringing a young women in to look at the room she had great references and everything and he was sitting on the couch when he saw her he just started screaming at her until she ran out in tears. I took the ad down after that that was two and a half weeks ago cause i thought he needed a bit more time to adjust but he refuses to change his stance.

    The next big issue is that I am moving all my stuff out in two days either to be sent to Canada or be put into storage. I am afraid he will not like this as he can get very violent when is angry.

    Do the viewings at night when he is at work.
    If he gets violent, ring the Gardai and have him arrested.


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    #14
    jake F
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭jake F


    he works from 10 in the night till 9 in the morning. That's to late to bring anyone in and I am in work at 8. These are very ackward hours adn I don't want someone to move in in and him act aggressively towards them either.


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    #15
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    I suppose if you see if from his point of view, he is going from living with (presumably?) a friend to living with a total stranger in the space of a month, when you have committed to a lease and to pay the rent for a further six months. Id be pretty pissed off in his position if you landed this on my lap in such short notice...

    I dont know the answer to how you best approach him Im afraid. All I can say is that in a week he will be solely responsible for the entirety of the rent if you intent to bail on him and stop paying your share, so he needs to find a way to deal with that, and quickly.


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    #16
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    Do the viewings at night when he is at work.
    If he gets violent, ring the Gardai and have him arrested.

    Things is, I can see it from his point of view, and in fairness to the lad he is in no way obliged to have a stranger thrust upon him against his wishes. This is a joint lease, not a rent a room situation.


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    #17
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    jake F wrote: »
    he works from 10 in the night till 9 in the morning. That's to late to bring anyone in and I am in work at 8. These are very ackward hours adn I don't want someone to move in in and him act aggressively towards them either.

    The only other option you have is to contact the landlord and explain that you have tried to find a replacement, but your roommate has thwarted those efforts - give the example of verbally abusing the girl that viewed the room.

    Try come to an arrangement with the landlord.


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    #18
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    djimi wrote: »
    Things is, I can see it from his point of view, and in fairness to the lad he is in no way obliged to have a stranger thrust upon him against his wishes. This is a joint lease, not a rent a room situation.

    Fair enough, but he can't go screaming at potential roommates just because he doesn't want the existing relationship to end. He knows he is losing out big time if the OP leaves so he is trying to make him stay - which isn't going to happen.

    The OP has been given an opportunity, this guy shouldn't be ruining it because he doesn't want to have to pay his own way in the world.


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    #19
    jake F
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭jake F


    my Landlord is quiet fair and knows the trouble is making. My LL has said that if time runs out and I have to leave they will use my deposit as my side of the rent and hopefully with in that month my roommate might come to his senses. I really want to sort it out cause i don't want to leave him in the lurch. And pay all those bills by himself at the end of the month.


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    #20
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,676 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    jake F wrote: »
    I moved into a house in drumcondra 5 years ago with a mate of mine. We moved in cause we were both attending college at the time but have both finished now.

    So far so good - although co-dependency alarm bells do start to go off for me when you've been five years together -that's a long time with the same housemate, even if you were friends beforehand.

    jake F wrote: »
    He is working in the local corner shop and I have a job in a big accounting business down the quays.

    Ahh, so you've made it, and he hasn't. Mmm ... ouch. I can see that he might be a bit resentful.


    jake F wrote: »
    Because of the job thing we both pay our share of the rent but i pay the majority of the bills.

    ... I ...am quiet lax with house situation

    Ouch. So he's dependent on you, both financially and in terms of the behaviour that you will accept a new housemate won't do the same deal, so basically he's screwed.


    Frankly, anyone you get to replace you is not going to last, because anyone normal will not tolerate the behaviouir that you have come to accept. (screaming at people etc)

    Does he have any family or friends who you could engage to help him sort out another living situation for himself?

    If not, then I would advise accepting that you will lose your deposit and either

    1) running to Canada and praying tha the landlord doesn't pursue you for the rest of the lease's rent [and yes, I know that legally the OP is liable for the rent - but as we see in other threads, sometimes LL's just have to cut their loses 'cos the cost of getting the cash is too high], OR

    2) being up front with the landlord, and working with him on a way to get psycho-friend out, so that the whole lease can be re-assigned.


    Good luck.

    Make sure you have a strong friend with you when you move your stuff out, and that you set up a mail re-direction with An Post.


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    #21
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    jake F wrote: »
    my Landlord is quiet fair and knows the trouble is making. My LL has said that if time runs out and I have to leave they will use my deposit as my side of the rent and hopefully with in that month my roommate might come to his senses. I really want to sort it out cause i don't want to leave him in the lurch. And pay all those bills by himself at the end of the month.

    In fairness, it is his own fault if he doesn't want to be involved and just has tantrums when you try broach the subject.


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    #22
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    nasty situation for the OP. It just sounds completely impossible for him to find somebody to move in the way the housemate is acting.

    Ultimately the LL is going to be the one that loses out here. The OP will move to Canada and the housemate will continue to pay only half rent. The LL wont be able to chase the OP for the rent in Canada and isn't going to be able to get it off the other housemate.

    So this is going to have to end in the LL going through eviction proceedings to resolve this.

    That's the reality of the situation. OP to me it seems you have exhausted all possibilities tbh. Guess its a case of just leaving and the pieces will fall as they do. Its a selfish approach but you really have no other option tbh.

    P.S Your housemate isn't a friend. No friend would do what he/she has done.


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    #23
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    A little harsh no? The OP is the one trying to break his lease. I for one would be more than a little annoyed if a flatmate said "by the way, I'm moving to canada but I've found some random dude to take over my room so, you know, hope you both get along".

    Situations like this require a bit more tact in my opinion.

    On the plus side, the rental market in Dublin is crazy at the moment, so the OP has a good chance of finding him an ideal co-tenant e.g. a tidy, well mannered private person for some people, or a party lover for others.

    The tenant remaining doesn't want to co-operate with finding a suitable replacement though, the OP has tried to include him in an adult conversation about it and everytime the flatmate has a strop, including screaming at a girl who came over to view the property.

    Sometimes harsh is required when people act like this.


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    #24
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    The tenant remaining doesn't want to co-operate with finding a suitable replacement though, the OP has tried to include him in an adult conversation about it and everytime the flatmate has a strop, including screaming at a girl who came over to view the property.

    Sometimes harsh is required when people act like this.

    The point being that the OP signed up to a lease with the flatmate. The flatmate has kept to his word, but the OP hasn't. I agree that the flatmate is being a bit of a baby, or maybe he has other reasons financial etc that he doesn't want the situation to change, but I think the OP recognises that he is the one breaking the lease and so he has to be the one to compromise.


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    #25
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    The point being that the OP signed up to a lease with the flatmate. The flatmate has kept to his word, but the OP hasn't. I agree that the flatmate is being a bit of a baby, or maybe he has other reasons financial etc that he doesn't want the situation to change, but I think the OP recognises that he is the one breaking the lease and so he has to be the one to compromise.

    Agree that it is the OP breaking the lease, but he has tried to follow all the best practices in relation to that. He spoke to the landlord, who was agreeable to a replacement being found. He spoke to his flatmate/friend who lost the plot, refused to have a grown up conversation and who upset/verbally abused a person viewing the property. If you share with a person who will not engage with you, are you meant to screw up your career just to be a sugar daddy to someone who doesn't want to be a responsible adult?


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    #26
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    D3PO wrote: »
    That's the reality of the situation. OP to me it seems you have exhausted all possibilities tbh. Guess its a case of just leaving and the pieces will fall as they do. Its a selfish approach but you really have no other option tbh.
    He could pay his half of the rent as he's agreed to in his lease. It's his problem that his friend is an asshole and that he cosigned a lease with such a selfish person. In July it then becomes the landlord's problem, assuming the friend hasn't left or found a replacement for the op.


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    #27
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    Agree that it is the OP breaking the lease, but he has tried to follow all the best practices in relation to that. He spoke to the landlord, who was agreeable to a replacement being found. He spoke to his flatmate/friend who lost the plot, refused to have a grown up conversation and who upset/verbally abused a person viewing the property. If you share with a person who will not engage with you, are you meant to screw up your career just to be a sugar daddy to someone who doesn't want to be a responsible adult?

    As murphaph says, he can go off to Canada, but may be responsible for the rent that he has agreed to pay half of.


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    #28
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    murphaph wrote: »
    He could pay his half of the rent as he's agreed to in his lease. It's his problem that his friend is an asshole and that he cosigned a lease with such a selfish person. In July it then becomes the landlord's problem, assuming the friend hasn't left or found a replacement for the op.
    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    As murphaph says, he can go off to Canada, but may be responsible for the rent that he has agreed to pay half of.

    I just think it's wrong - the Op has done everything right and someone else is screwing the whole situation up for them. Even the landlord is agreeing with the OP and is agreeable to a loss of deposit.


    At this stage I think the landlord should just terminate the lease early - I've a sneaking suspicion the remaining tenant is going to be trouble. He didn't want to work with the OP to find a suitable replacement and he hasn't been paying his share of the bills in the house since they graduated from college - this could be a head in sand situation and the landlord will be out all the rent by the time the lease is up!


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    #29
    jake F
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭jake F


    Heyo

    I am just wondering about if you move out and get someone to replace you. How do you make sure they stay and pay rent and follow the lease, as your name remains on the lease are responsible again if they just leave.

    Thanks


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    #30
    rawn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    Are you allowed to sublet?


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    #31
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    jake F wrote: »
    Heyo

    I am just wondering about if you move out and get someone to replace you. How do you make sure they stay and pay rent and follow the lease, as your name remains on the lease are responsible again if they just leave.

    Thanks


    You could ask the landlord to amend the lease to remove your name and add the other tenants to it.
    Technically as you are finding your replacement with the landlords permission then you are just doing the donkey work so the landlord isn't losing income and you are not responsible for the remaining rent on your lease.


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