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Irish 23 Man Squad - The Run In

  • 03-04-2012 2:04pm
    #1
    Raskolnikov
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Raskolnikov


    Players definitely going.

    Shay Given, Kieran Westwood, Richard Dunne, Sean St. Ledger, Stephen Kelly, Stephen Ward, John O'Shea, Aiden McGeady, Damien Duff, Stephen Hunt, Glen Whelan, Keith Andrews, Keith Fahey, Robbie Keane, Kevin Doyle, Shane Long, Jonathan Walters.

    These 17 players have featured heavily for us and should all be fit and certainties to go.

    Players who are there or thereabouts.

    David Forde seems to have the third goalkeeping spot sewn up.

    Darren O'Dea has done well when called upon, is playing regular football and has been recently called up.

    Kevin Foley has played quite a few times under Trap, although injuries have prevented him for cementing a place in the squad.

    James McClean has come from nowhere to become a contender. Given his explosive form and injuries/lack of form to Hunt/Coleman, he has a chance.

    Seamus Coleman has featured in quite a lot in squads and has got himself ahead of Liam Lawrence. Has struggled for form and endured a lot of injuries this season though.

    Darron Gibson has been playing some fantastic stuff since his move to Everton, surely right back in the frame.

    Paul Green made a bit of a surprise return after recently coming back from long-term injury. Can't be discounted.

    Simon Cox is in and out for WBA and often deployed on the wing. Trap favours him, and he has delivered for us.

    Players dropping out of contention.

    Paul McShane has struggled with injuries and has been shipped out on loan.

    Damien Delaney appears to have slipped out of the reckoning entirely.

    Ciaran Clark has struggled with injuries and hasn't commanded a regular place at club level.

    James McCarthy has come into form in the last few games, probably not enough to push for a squad place though.

    Liam Lawrence appears to have fallen behind Seamus Coleman, his recent comments won't enamour him to Trap.

    Andy Keogh has formerly favoured, but dropping down a division has seemingly put him behind Cox/Walters.

    Players with no hope whatsoever of going.

    Stephen Ireland has offered his services to the Irish team, although it will be too little too late for Trapattoni.

    Marc Wilson's miniscule chance of making the final has surely been finished off by his recent comments regarding Trap.

    Kevin Kilbane has been ruled out for the season with spinal injuries, although I wouldn't be surprised to see him in a supporting role on the sidelines.

    Shane Duffy did well in his two games for Everton that he played, although this is certainly a tournament too early for him.

    Anthony Pilkington hasn't declared for us, has had injury problems, and his goals have dried up.

    Anthony Stokes hasn't even been mentioned by Trap since going AWOL for the Carling Nations cup.
    The final squad, in my opinion at least will be.

    Shay Given, Kieran Westwood, David Forde, Richard Dunne, Sean St. Ledger, Darren O' Dea, Stephen Kelly, Stephen Ward, John O'Shea, Kevin Foley, Aiden McGeady, Damien Duff, Stephen Hunt, James McClean, Glen Whelan, Keith Andrews, Keith Fahey, Darron Gibson, Robbie Keane, Kevin Doyle, Shane Long, Jonathan Walters, Simon Cox.

    I get the feeling that McClean may just pip Coleman (he has never really established himself and he is young too) for the final place.

    Thoughts?


«134567…13

Comments

  • #2
    _blank_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    it's manners to provide a link to the piece you know.


  • #3
    Raskolnikov
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Raskolnikov


    Des wrote: »
    it's manners to provide a link to the piece you know.
    How do you link to something you wrote yourself? ;)


  • #4
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    What did Wilson say about Trap recently?


  • #5
    Raskolnikov
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Raskolnikov


    Rhys Essien wrote: »
    What did Wilson say about Trap recently?
    http://www.joe.ie/football/international-football/which-estranged-irish-international-has-an-axe-to-grind-with-trap-0022938-1
    Marc Wilson has issued a damning rebuke of Irish manager Giovanni Trapattoni over the circumstances that have led to his continued exclusion from the international set-up.

    there is more...


  • #6
    Orando Broom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭Orando Broom


    Raskolnikov wrote: »
    How do you link to something you wrote yourself? ;)

    What did Lawrence say?


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  • #7
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Hopefully no Paul Green

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • #8
    Raskolnikov
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Raskolnikov


    Orando Broom wrote: »
    What did Lawrence say?
    He was dropped by text message for the Czech game. Apparently he texted back expressing his disappointment.


  • #9
    Ganymede Glow
    Registered Users Posts: 833 ✭✭✭Ganymede Glow


    McClean should go even if Trap doesn't plan on starting it would be nice to have him there on the bench. Would it be complete madness to go with just two keepers?


  • #10
    G.K.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭G.K.


    You have to name 3...


  • #11
    Ganymede Glow
    Registered Users Posts: 833 ✭✭✭Ganymede Glow


    G.K. wrote: »
    You have to name 3...

    You sure mate? I've heard of teams bringing only two, **** knows if I can remember who though. Might have been the world cup


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  • #12
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Ganymede Glow wrote: »
    You sure mate? I've heard of teams bringing only two, **** knows if I can remember who though. Might have been the world cup
    North Korea did it, and were told the 3rd player could only play as a keeper.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • #13
    ASOT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭ASOT


    Niall Quinn also went as a keeper one year but i could be mistaken, this was before they changed the rules anyway


  • #14
    Ganymede Glow
    Registered Users Posts: 833 ✭✭✭Ganymede Glow


    ScienceNerd wrote: »
    North Korea did it, and were told the 3rd player could only play as a keeper.

    Spot on there mate I remember it now. That was the World Cup that North Korea won iirc


  • #15
    Paully D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Here's what I think Trap will do barring injuries, players listed in no particular order;

    Goalkeepers:

    Given
    Westwood
    Forde

    Defenders:

    O'Shea
    Dunne
    St Ledger
    O'Dea
    Kelly
    Ward
    Foley

    Midfielders:

    Duff
    Andrews
    Whelan
    McGeady
    Gibson
    Hunt
    Fahey
    Green (:eek:)

    Strikers:

    Keane
    Doyle
    Cox
    Walters
    Long

    Players left out whilst people scream for their inclusion (which isn't happening, they'll get their chance in the next campaign) - James McClean, James McCarthy, Seamus Coleman and to a lesser extent (EDIT - probably not actually after reading the above article about him) Marc Wilson.


  • #16
    closeline
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭closeline


    I am the only one that thinks it is absolutly a disgrace what Trap did to Wilson.


  • #17
    Raskolnikov
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Raskolnikov


    Trap has said that there are 28 players who deserve to make the squad and that the the likes of McClean and McCarthy are in that number.

    Trap on Richard Dunne.
    “I was in touch with him and he said ‘Mister I am well. I am confident that I play maybe the last game in April for Aston Villa’,” said Trapattoni. “He answered me [on Monday]. Every two or three days I call him and ask him to answer immediately.”

    Trap on the Wolves quartet who looked set to be relegated.
    “They are last in the table, but we can give them enthusiasm,” said Trapattoni. “The last time they came with us they were a little bit disappointed, but we have the possibility [to lift them] because they must believe us and our system and mentality. It is another team and another situation.”

    Trap on McCarthy and McClean.
    “Yes, he scored and plays well,” said Trapattoni of McClean. “And also [James] McCarthy. I have 50 DVDs. Every day I look, Norwich, Wigan and Sunderland and they play well. He goes always now with confidence, McClean.”

    Asked about the final make-up of his squad Trapattoni gave a broad hint that McClean, in particular, is playing his way into contention.

    “These names you said, McCarthy, McClean, that is important.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0404/1224314345323.html


  • #18
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,399 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    closeline wrote: »
    I am the only one that thinks it is absolutly a disgrace what Trap did to Wilson.

    Why is it a "disgrace"?


  • #19
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    Now touch and go whether Hunt will be fit.

    http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Blow-for-Wolves-as-Stephen-Hunt-may-need-surgery-article886665.html


    Is Trap going to bring 4 wingers?


  • #20
    Pro. F
    Registered Users Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Why is it a "disgrace"?

    Trap says that Wilson is being excluded until he apologises for some unspecified disciplinary issue. Trap did once say something about going out at night, but I think he has since taken that back or said it was somebody else. And he has confirmed it is not about the communication issues when Wilson has cried off with injury in the past. Trap has also sent out mixed messages by saying in an FAI press release that he is not excluding Wilson. Wilson says he has never heard about this discipline issue before and that he doesn't know what Trap is talking about. You might choose to believe Trap, but with the constant fallings out with players - in particular his shameful handling of S Reid - I am far from inclined to.
    Paully D wrote: »
    Players left out whilst people scream for their inclusion (which isn't happening, they'll get their chance in the next campaign) - James McClean, James McCarthy, Seamus Coleman and to a lesser extent (EDIT - probably not actually after reading the above article about him) Marc Wilson.

    Add Steven Reid and Wes Hoolihan.

    I know Reid is injured now, but Trap had already fallen out with him and would have left him out anyway. You say they will get their chance in the next campaign, but Reid won't and the clock is starting to tick for Hoolihan.


  • #21
    paddy kerins
    Site Banned Posts: 1,856 ✭✭✭paddy kerins


    Raskolnikov wrote: »
    Trap has said that there are 28 players who deserve to make the squad and that the the likes of McClean and McCarthy are in that number.



    Trap on McCarthy and McClean.
    “Yes, he scored and plays well,” said Trapattoni of McClean. “And also [James] McCarthy. I have 50 DVDs. Every day I look, Norwich, Wigan and Sunderland and they play well. He goes always now with confidence, McClean.”

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0404/1224314345323.html

    Interesting that he mentions Norwich here. Could he be looking at Hoolihan and Pilkington?


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  • #22
    Raskolnikov
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Raskolnikov


    Trap has watched Norwich in person a few times, so it's not like he's ignoring our eligible players there. The problem for Hoolahan is that there are loads of central midfielders, all playing at around the same level for us (Whelan, Andrews, Fahey, Gibson, McCarthy, Green, Hoolahan, Clark). Whelan and Andrews have to go, Fahey probably too even though he's a division down, that leaves one place remaining. Do you ignore Gibson or McCarthy to accommodate Hoolahan? If Hunt is actually ruled out for the season, that actually gives Pilkington a chance, but equally, if McGeady and Duff are the definites, do you leave out Coleman or McClean?

    You can't bring everyone.


  • #23
    Pro. F
    Registered Users Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Raskolnikov wrote: »
    Trap has watched Norwich in person a few times, so it's not like he's ignoring our eligible players there. The problem for Hoolahan is that there are loads of central midfielders, all playing at around the same level for us (Whelan, Andrews, Fahey, Gibson, McCarthy, Green, Hoolahan, Clark). Whelan and Andrews have to go, Fahey probably too even though he's a division down, that leaves one place remaining. Do you ignore Gibson or McCarthy to accommodate Hoolahan? If Hunt is actually ruled out for the season, that actually gives Pilkington a chance, but equally, if McGeady and Duff are the definites, do you leave out Coleman or McClean?

    You can't bring everyone.

    Indeed you can't bring everyone. But the fact that Green played again in the last game while Hoolihan hasn't been called up once and Steven Reid has been thrown aside (I know he's now injured) is a complete joke. The issue isn't that there are too many players for any one position, it's that Trap makes a lot of shíte selections.


  • #24
    Raskolnikov
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Raskolnikov


    Pro. F wrote: »
    it's that Trap makes a lot of shíte selections.
    He doesn't really though.

    The goalkeepers pick themselves, the strikers pick themselves.

    Wilson is the only defender on ability and form who probably should be in the squad - the problem is that he made himself unavailable a few times. It really doesn't sound like we know the full story there. Anyway, it's not like the guy is playing at a different level to our other fullbacks of Ward, O'Shea, Foley, or Kelly?

    As for midfielders, Green is the only player who shouldn't be in the squad, but I don't think he will make the squad for the Euro's.


  • #25
    Pro. F
    Registered Users Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Raskolnikov wrote: »
    Wilson is the only defender on ability and form who probably should be in the squad - the problem is that he made himself unavailable a few times. It really doesn't sound like we know the full story there. Anyway, it's not like the guy is playing at a different level to our other fullbacks of Ward, O'Shea, Foley, or Kelly?

    Trap has said that the problem is not the issue that went on with Wilson crying off those times. Trap has said it is a discipline issue. See my post above.

    You might like to judge players purely on which league they play in, but Kelly is definitely nowhere near the level of Wilson.
    Raskolnikov wrote: »
    As for midfielders, Green is the only player who shouldn't be in the squad, but I don't think he will make the squad for the Euro's.

    Reid should have been in the squad. His exclusion by Trap is (was) a farce. Hoolihan should at the very least have had a few call ups.


  • #26
    Raskolnikov
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Raskolnikov


    Pro. F wrote: »
    Trap has said that the problem is not the issue that went on with Wilson crying off those times. Trap has said it is a discipline issue. See my post above.
    If Marc Wilson doesn't know what the problem is, then you sure as hell don't.
    Pro. F wrote: »
    You might like to judge players purely on which league they play in, but Kelly is definitely nowhere near the level of Wilson.
    How would you know, you only watch them when they're playing United.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68678856&postcount=272
    I'm not a fan of Stoke's style and if I had to watch them every week I'd give up on football.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68679900&postcount=276
    I don't think I've watched them at all this season before yesterday.
    Don't get me wrong, I like Wilson, but it's clear when you watch him that his natural position is central midfield.
    Pro. F wrote: »
    Reid should have been in the squad. His exclusion by Trap is (was) a farce. Hoolihan should at the very least have had a few call ups.
    Reid has been retired for nearly 2 years. Just like Lee Carsley, Andy Reid and others since, dropping Steven Reid has proved to be the right decision.


  • #27
    Pro. F
    Registered Users Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Raskolnikov wrote: »
    If Marc Wilson doesn't know what the problem is, then you sure as hell don't.

    Trap has said it is a discipline issue and not to do with the crying off injured from call ups to the squad.

    Raskolnikov wrote: »
    How would you know, you only watch them when they're playing United.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68678856&postcount=272

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68679900&postcount=276

    Don't get me wrong, I like Wilson, but it's clear when you watch him that his natural position is central midfield.

    An October post from 2010 saying I hadn't watched them yet that season and a post saying I wouldn't want to watch them every week means that I only watch Stoke when they play United?
    You are some chancer.

    I've seen plenty enough of Wilson and he is a better fullback than Kelly.
    Raskolnikov wrote: »
    Reid has been retired for nearly 2 years. Just like Lee Carsley, Andy Reid and others since, dropping Steven Reid has proved to be the right decision.

    Seriously, you are a Trap propaganda machine.
    Why do you fail to mention the ridiculously unprofessional and completely inaccurate comments Trap made to the press about Reid's injury when he was just getting back to fitness and trying to sign a new contract at his club? Why do you fail to mention the fact that Trap froze him out of the squad and stopped contacting him? And why have you neglected to mention that Reid has since indicated that he would be willing to return?

    Reid retired after Trap spouted bullshìt about his injury and it became evident that Trap wasn't interested in having him back in the squad. From all that he has said it is obvious that Reid would have been willing to come back. Trap hasn't been proven right, Reid is still a good player and we've just missed out on his services during one of his decent injury free spells.


  • #28
    Orando Broom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭Orando Broom


    Pro. F wrote: »
    Trap has said it is a discipline issue and not to do with the crying off injured from call ups to the squad.




    An October post from 2010 saying I hadn't watched them yet that season and a post saying I wouldn't want to watch them every week means that I only watch Stoke when they play United?
    You are some chancer.

    I've seen plenty enough of Wilson and he is a better fullback than Kelly.



    Seriously, you are a Trap propaganda machine.
    Why do you fail to mention the ridiculously unprofessional and completely inaccurate comments Trap made to the press about Reid's injury when he was just getting back to fitness and trying to sign a new contract at his club? Why do you fail to mention the fact that Trap froze him out of the squad and stopped contacting him? And why have you neglected to mention that Reid has since indicated that he would be willing to return?

    Reid retired after Trap spouted bullshìt about his injury and it became evident that Trap wasn't interested in having him back in the squad. From all that he has said it is obvious that Reid would have been willing to come back. Trap hasn't been proven right, Reid is still a good player and we've just missed out on his services during one of his decent injury free spells.

    In fairness Pro f he was a good but wholly unreliable player. The guy had the fitness levels of an OAP. I loved seeing him in an Ireland shirt but I really never felt like Ireland missed him. He was injured more times than fit and Trap is a system man, Reid would have been an outright liability given the way Trap sets up his teams. There would be no certainty or security with Reid, fit one minute and crying off hours before games. In Trap's squad stability is essential, there has not really been a break in team personnel continuity in his era. Reid's story real shame and a real 'what-if' story but ultimately, in my opinion, Trap was right to discard him.

    On a side note is it wrong of me to wish that Hunt's injury is much more serious that they think it is and that as a result he'll miss the Euros? I know he is a committed guy who gives the jersey everything but I really, really want McClean on the plane. I genuinely feel the guy is a game breaker and could be the difference for Ireland.


  • #29
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,220 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Orando Broom wrote: »

    On a side note is it wrong of me to wish that Hunt's injury is much more serious that they think it is and that as a result he'll miss the Euros? I know he is a committed guy who gives the jersey everything but I really, really want McClean on the plane. I genuinely feel the guy is a game breaker and could be the difference for Ireland.

    You talked about squad continuity which I agree has given the team a solidarity but then you wish for McClean to get on the plane instead of Hunt? I know what you're saying but yes, Trap is a continuity man and that's a big part of why Paul Green got on against the Czechs and McCarthy was left on the bench and why all the other players play in the team that fans here and elsewhere don't like and want replaced by a 'better' counterpart. Yes, McClean might make the squad at Hunt's expense but will he play? Maybe continuity will see Fahey go on.


  • #30
    Pro. F
    Registered Users Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Orando Broom wrote: »
    In fairness Pro f he was a good but wholly unreliable player. The guy had the fitness levels of an OAP. I loved seeing him in an Ireland shirt but I really never felt like Ireland missed him. He was injured more times than fit and Trap is a system man, Reid would have been an outright liability given the way Trap sets up his teams. There would be no certainty or security with Reid, fit one minute and crying off hours before games. In Trap's squad stability is essential, there has not really been a break in team personnel continuity in his era. Reid's story real shame and a real 'what-if' story but ultimately, in my opinion, Trap was right to discard him.

    I get what you're saying but this famous system is going too far when it means having to leave some of our best players out of the squad/team. If SReid had been called back in he would have been a huge asset and well worth the slight disruption to the team. If the Whelan/Andrews combo was the back-up choice then they could have been given all the friendlies and time during competitive games to get practice in. It's not like they are particularly organised looking now that they've had the whole campaign together anyway. The midfield gets cut open regularly whenever we play decent opposition.


    People say (and I think Trap has said it as well) that we have to play overly defensively because we don't have the players to give us any other option. We actually have a good few midfielders who are skillful on the ball - S Reid, McCarthy, Hoolihan, Fahey - and a grand selection of wingers and strikers. This group of players is perfectly capable of stringing a few passes together and keeping possession for a bit. Don't believe the hype.

    Also, even if we agree for arguments sake that the team is better off without SReid, Trap still should have handled it better. Instead of announcing to the press that Reid's football career was probably over when he didn't even know the true facts and then never calling him again, the sensible thing to do would have been to talk to him in private and explain why he wasn't going to be selected. If Trap's work to achieve squad unity is constantly touted then why is his very public disgraceful treatment of a good servant not being decried?
    Orando Broom wrote: »
    On a side note is it wrong of me to wish that Hunt's injury is much more serious that they think it is and that as a result he'll miss the Euros? I know he is a committed guy who gives the jersey everything but I really, really want McClean on the plane. I genuinely feel the guy is a game breaker and could be the difference for Ireland.

    Of course it's wrong! You can wish he gets better but that McClean gets selected ahead of him. Then nobody needs to watch the Euro's with a sore knee.


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  • #31
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,399 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Pro F - I have to ask. Are you going to maintain this right through the tournament in 8 weeks time? I agree that you are nicely hedged, but is there no point at which you might think '**** it, time to get on board'? The liklehood is you'll get the opportunity to say 'I told you so' after the final whistle against Spain, but it isn't too late to get behind Trapp and the players when they have the chance to pull off something magnificent.


  • #32
    craggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 664 ✭✭✭craggles


    Pro. F wrote: »
    I get what you're saying but this famous system is going too far when it means having to leave some of our best players out of the squad/team.

    This is not how it works. Sweden play better when they have a system that's not based around Ibrahimovic, should they adjust? No. They will anyway though.


  • #33
    craggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 664 ✭✭✭craggles


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Pro F - I have to ask. Are you going to maintain this right through the tournament in 8 weeks time?

    Some people just love a good fucking moan.


  • #34
    G.K.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭G.K.


    craggles wrote: »
    This is not how it works. Sweden play better when they have a system that's not based around Ibrahimovic, should they adjust? No. They will anyway though.

    Pro F. here uses system in a different context - we aren't taking about the setup of the team, we aren't suggesting Ireland go 3-1-3-1 to suit Hoolahan or anything. Trap's Ireland would play the exact same system with McGeady, Hunt or McClean on the left, it's the act of bringing the player to the tournament in the first place is the issue.


  • #35
    Orando Broom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭Orando Broom


    briany wrote: »
    You talked about squad continuity which I agree has given the team a solidarity but then you wish for McClean to get on the plane instead of Hunt? I know what you're saying but yes, Trap is a continuity man and that's a big part of why Paul Green got on against the Czechs and McCarthy was left on the bench and why all the other players play in the team that fans here and elsewhere don't like and want replaced by a 'better' counterpart. Yes, McClean might make the squad at Hunt's expense but will he play? Maybe continuity will see Fahey go on.

    Erm. I'm not Trap. I'm Orando. I don't pick the Ireland team. I can have an opinion that varies from Trap's. I don't rate Hunt at all. I think he is like a collie dog playing with a balloon. i think McClean is a FAR better option. If Hunt was injured for the tournement then there would be no disruption of harmony by having a squad stalwart dropped.

    But since your asking:

    Trap loves continuity. I do too, to an extent. I'd like to see him prepare the team to be able to play 4-5-1. Since Paris I thought Trap should have evolved the team to be more creative in their formation. I thought the tools were there to evolve, especially in friendlies. I think the emergence of McCarthy and Houilhan as centre midfielders of Irish international standard should have seen him at least experiment somewhat.

    Now to counteract that, Trap feels the time is limited with the squadand he wanted to get his 4-4-2 absolutely spot on. He wanted it learned by rote. Those who were good students were rewarded those who were not, punished. It seems to have worked. Ireland are going to the Euros as a serious fly in the ointment of ambition to Spain, Italy and Croatia.

    Despite that I will still believe that Ireland are maybe slightly better endowed for 4-5-1 that Trap would let you believe.


  • #36
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,220 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Orando Broom wrote: »
    Erm. I'm not Trap. I'm Orando. I don't pick the Ireland team. I can have an opinion that varies from Trap's. I don't rate Hunt at all. I think he is like a collie dog playing with a balloon. i think McClean is a FAR better option. If Hunt was injured for the tournement then there would be no disruption of harmony by having a squad stalwart dropped.

    Hunt's definitely not the most skillful but his commitment to play for Ireland probably means he'll drag himself through hell to make it to full fitness for the Euros. If Hunt doesn't do that and he's not on the plane, yes McClean might make the squad but I don't think his inclusion would in effect only give him slightly more chance of playing than if he was watching the game back in Derry. Trap, ever stubborn, has a pecking order for that position like McGeady -> Hunt -> Fahey -> McClean based on his selections over this campaign. Hunt knows the system, and if ever he'll raise his game, it'll be for this so I wouldn't be much for joining in with the people who would like to McClean included in his place when there's not much chance he'll even get on.


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  • #37
    Pro. F
    Registered Users Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Sorry for the late response.
    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Pro F - I have to ask. Are you going to maintain this right through the tournament in 8 weeks time? I agree that you are nicely hedged, but is there no point at which you might think '**** it, time to get on board'? The liklehood is you'll get the opportunity to say 'I told you so' after the final whistle against Spain, but it isn't too late to get behind Trapp and the players when they have the chance to pull off something magnificent.

    I'm not trying to hedge my position in the being-right-stakes man. I'm talking about squad selection in a thread for discussing squad selection.

    I want to see the players win every game they play. When the games are on I'll be rooting for the team and probably trying to forget the fact that I don't agree with lots of what Trap does. But I'm not going to give up all objective discussion here now because I really want Ireland to win. Imo the whole point of the SF is objective discussion of football and giving that up wouldn't achieve anything.
    craggles wrote: »
    This is not how it works. Sweden play better when they have a system that's not based around Ibrahimovic, should they adjust? No. They will anyway though.

    The team didn't have to adjust when SReid was involved and they played better, so that point doesn't stand for him.

    With regards to players like Hoolihan, Fahey and McCarthy, you can't say that the team plays better in this system than it would with them involved because Trap doesn't try it out.
    craggles wrote: »
    Some people just love a good fucking moan.

    ''Blah blah ad hominem blah.''

    Great post. Well done.


  • #38
    Vokes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭Vokes


    Raskolnikov wrote: »
    Trap has watched Norwich in person a few times, so it's not like he's ignoring our eligible players there. The problem for Hoolahan is that there are loads of central midfielders, all playing at around the same level for us (Whelan, Andrews, Fahey, Gibson, McCarthy, Green, Hoolahan, Clark). Whelan and Andrews have to go, Fahey probably too even though he's a division down, that leaves one place remaining. Do you ignore Gibson or McCarthy to accommodate Hoolahan? If Hunt is actually ruled out for the season, that actually gives Pilkington a chance, but equally, if McGeady and Duff are the definites, do you leave out Coleman or McClean?

    You can't bring everyone.
    Is the 4 CMs only, a definite ?

    I was thinking perhaps he'd bring 5 CMs - to cover in the event of injuries or (likely) suspensions - one of which would be Fahey who would offer coverage in the winger positions as well. Add to that Duff, McGeady + 1 other winger to complete the 8 midfielders.


  • #39
    CSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,543 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    sugarman wrote: »
    A little out the blue, but I'm thinking, that he's thinking. He's a like for like of McCarthy, but is older and has the experiance to play if needed ahead of him.
    And is better than McCarthy.


  • #40
    Corholio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,014 ✭✭✭✭Corholio


    sugarman wrote: »
    A little out the blue, but I'm thinking, that he's thinking. He's a like for like of McCarthy, but is older and has the experiance to play if needed ahead of him.

    He's not a like for like at all. McCarthy does a lot more defensive work and is a much better tackler, Hoolahan is more of a playmaker. I'd love to bring both of them, but if had to pick i'd take McCarthy.


  • #41
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Orando Broom wrote: »
    Erm. I'm not Trap. I'm Orando. .

    Can I just say, I loved your performance in Elizabethtown, I thought it was great, a real gem, keep it up.


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  • #42
    Redzer7
    Registered Users Posts: 5,209 ✭✭✭Redzer7


    Ian Harte saying Trap didn't know he was Irish, what the fúck.


  • #43
    full_irish
    Registered Users Posts: 515 ✭✭✭full_irish


    Redzer7 wrote: »
    Ian Harte saying Trap didn't know he was Irish, what the fúck.
    and he hasn't even called me up for selection either....seriously, what the fuck.


  • #44
    Redzer7
    Registered Users Posts: 5,209 ✭✭✭Redzer7


    full_irish wrote: »
    and he hasn't even called me up for selection either....seriously, what the fuck.

    Ian Harte has 63 caps for Ireland, just because he isn't in the Premier League doesn't mean he should be overlooked, Trap didn't even know he was Irish ffs, he should be looked at especially with the form Harte's being in for Reading the last couple of years.


  • #45
    tolosenc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    Redzer7 wrote: »
    Ian Harte has 63 caps for Ireland, just because he isn't in the Premier League doesn't mean he should be overlooked, Trap didn't even know he was Irish ffs, he should be looked at especially with the form Harte's being in for Reading the last couple of years.

    Trap would beat Harte in a foot race though.


  • #46
    Redzer7
    Registered Users Posts: 5,209 ✭✭✭Redzer7


    tolosenc wrote: »
    Trap would beat Harte in a foot race though.
    Probably yes :pac:


  • #47
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Redzer7 wrote: »
    Ian Harte saying Trap didn't know he was Irish, what the fúck.

    Seriously?


  • #48
    kitakyushu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,465 ✭✭✭kitakyushu


    I'd nearly select Harte at this point. Sure he's 34 and slower than a Dublin bus but considering we play the game for set-piece opportunities it might not be a crazy idea to have someone who could actually use them. Plus it's not like we'd be dropping Ashley Cole from left back to make way for him.


  • #49
    Redzer7
    Registered Users Posts: 5,209 ✭✭✭Redzer7


    Dempsey wrote: »
    Seriously?

    Yeah, an interview with Ian on Sky Sports said the lads on the team asked Trap if Ian Harte should be picked and he replied that he didn't know Ian was Irish.


  • #50
    Redzer7
    Registered Users Posts: 5,209 ✭✭✭Redzer7


    kitakyushu wrote: »
    I'd nearly select Harte at this point. Sure he's 34 and slower than a Dublin bus but considering we play the game for set-piece opportunities it might not be a crazy idea to have someone who could actually use them. Plus it's not like we'd be dropping Ashley Cole from left back to make way for him.

    He's being in the Championship 11 the last 2 years too, and the Ashley cole comment is exactly why he could be in the team, it's not like Ward etc is 100 times better. We could really use Harte's set pieces.


  • #51
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Redzer7 wrote: »
    Yeah, an interview with Ian on Sky Sports said the lads on the team asked Trap if Ian Harte should be picked and he replied that he didn't know Ian was Irish.

    Thats fair bad considering that Harte has 60+ caps and played in a World Cup


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