Nobility in animals

Torakx · 01-03-2015 3:40am #1

Would it be fair to say that animals are noble because they have no shame?

I can't explain where that thought came from, but I was considering the dogs behaviour today and that popped into my head.
I think I was wondering if it was possible to train to dog to pick up my lighter if it fell

Then thought that's kind of mean or degrading.
Then thought that why would it be if they get a snack as a reward.
they aren't ashamed and soseem tobe more "logical" or rational.
So more noble? True to themselves.

I am tempted to google this now, but I won't. i think it's much more fun to think on it and discuss.
I did cheat and look for the proper meaning for noble though.
Sorry, it's going to be a lazy copy and paste.

noble
ˈnəʊb(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: noble; comparative adjective: nobler; superlative adjective: noblest
1.
belonging by rank, title, or birth to the aristocracy.
"the medieval palace was once owned by a noble Florentine family"
synonyms:aristocratic, noble-born, of noble birth, titled, patrician, blue-blooded, high-born, well born; Morearchaicgentle, of gentle birth
"she came from a noble family"

antonyms:humble

2.
having or showing fine personal qualities or high moral principles.
"the promotion of human rights was a noble aspiration"
synonyms:righteous, virtuous, good, honourable, honest, upright, upstanding, decent, worthy, noble-minded, uncorrupted, anti-corruption, moral, ethical, reputable, magnanimous, unselfish, generous, self-sacrificing, brave More"they were fighting for a noble cause"

lofty, exalted, elevated, grand, sublime, imposing
"noble thoughts"

antonyms:dishonourable, ignoble, base

of imposing or magnificent size or appearance.
"noble arches and massive granite columns"
synonyms:magnificent, splendid, grand, stately, imposing, dignified, distinguished, proud, striking, impressive, majestic, glorious, marvellous, awe-inspiring, awesome, monumental, palatial, statuesque, heroic; Moreregal, royal, kingly, queenly, princely, imperial
"there is nothing more noble than a mature pine forest"

antonyms:unimpressive

of excellent or superior quality.
"Chardonnay is the noble grape from which some of the finest white wines are produced"
synonyms:excellent, splendid, marvellous, magnificent, superb, fine, wonderful, exceptional, formidable, sublime, prime, first-class, first-rate, high-grade, grade A, superior, supreme, flawless, choice, select, finest, superlative, model; Moreinformaltip-top, A1, top-notch
"this noble grape variety lends weight and body to the wine"

antonyms:poor

noun
noun: noble; plural noun: nobles
1.
(especially in former times) a person of noble rank or birth.
"the greater a noble's military power, the more land he could control"
synonyms:aristocrat, nobleman, noblewoman, lord, lady, peer, peeress, peer of the realm, patrician, titled man/woman/person; Moreinformalaristo;
informalnob, rah
"seven Scottish nobles were killed in that battle"

2.
historical
a former English gold coin first issued in 1351.

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RichieO · 02-03-2015 9:55am

I would have to say noble in a natural way, I would not attempt to impose human emotions on any other animal, it's only humans that complicate everything...

Torakx · 06-03-2015 7:00pm

I found this today.
Not sure what it means compared to my statement at the top. But might be of interest.

https://books.google.ie/books?id=P-vrCZWj4Z4C&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=nobility+in+animals+philosophy&source=bl&ots=TSjlm0udXu&sig=_tnr15bUH2AVPPErUC_J5tKuGAA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8eX5VIf4HsLd7gaK8oDIBA&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=nobility%20in%20animals%20philosophy&f=false

" If cruelty in humans is wanton destruction, which yeilds at most only psychological satisfaction in the perpetrator, one cannot fail to observe the same kind of wanton destruction in other species.
During the idle season bees will engage in veritable wars to extermination on other bee colonies and self extermination.
If a flock of birds pecking to death a weak individual can be said to serve unwittingly for the reproduction of the genetically strongest in the species, could not the same be said for the cruelty with which human children and adults pick on weaklings? "

This is I think is a study of Nietzsches work. Which is funny, as I am a big fan obviously and I only searched nobility in animals philosophy, with a google search....

I wanted to somehow work in the idea that serials killers can be noble

But it falls apart with consideration to cruelty I think, or at least in many cases.
Maybe we have a long way to go to reach the height of animals. We are still only human

A secondary thought.
If we cannot escape this universe. Or possibly even this planet. Are we not better off returning to ignorance?
In this case if the answer is yes, then wanten ignorance is the height of awareness?
I guess I just like to turn things on their heads and see how they look.

Baked.noodle · 09-03-2015 1:09am

I would think being noble in the sense of "having or showing fine personal qualities or high moral principles" would be almost exclusively a human characteristic because of our conscience and it's relationship with our self actualization. I think man must be responsible for his values and behavior to a much greater extent then other, perhaps, less complicated creatures. On the other hand, the Lion would be symbolic of nobility insofar as we associate it's place in the animal kingdom. I think at least some animals have a sense of dignity, and some have very developed personalities, but in humans we hold a noble man to be of fine disciplined character, especially in the face of adversary.

MaxWig · 10-03-2015 12:05pm

A secondary thought.
If we cannot escape this universe. Or possibly even this planet. Are we not better off returning to ignorance?
In this case if the answer is yes, then wanten ignorance is the height of awareness?
I guess I just like to turn things on their heads and see how they look.

And isn't it impossible to escape this depressing fact!

Limited animals with unlimited horizons.

Tied to a toilet bowl, excrement leaking from our bowels, plodding aimlessly towards our own personal expiration date - all the while contemplating the outer rings of Saturn, infinity, the universe!

countrynosebag · 11-03-2015 11:21am

For baked noodle
I have noted, and read, heard, and still hear off animals with remarkable loyalty, love and unconditional love at that. I find that a noble quality and furthermore one that is distinctly lacking in most humans which describe themselves as higher beings.
I suppose though it really is subjective as to which qualities each of us think important. It seems that these attributes are prized by me.

Baked.noodle · 11-03-2015 12:09pm

I think many animals have a similar experience to humans when it comes to love, though I think human love in adults is more self aware and in many cases it is more conditional. I don't find this surprising because I believe humans are animals, yet I would contend humans the most complex insofar as they have the greatest creativity and autonomy. Likewise, loyalty is a characteristic we recognize in many animals but human relationships are very complex and I would think in many cases it is also conditional. Because humans have a greater spectrum of conscious choice and the noble life is a very narrow and difficult path within that spectrum, I believe nobility in humans (having or showing fine personal qualities or high moral principles) to be the the apex in the natural structure of nature. Other animals may display characteristics of nobility but they have no concept of nobility and no capacity to judge it in others.

countrynosebag · 12-03-2015 10:32am

We are all creative in different ways, certainly differently valued.
Because we can create, build, be artistic does not necessarily denote superiority. I would question, more than ever, what it all means. Money seems to be the main goal and I find this rather sad.
People in general, and specifically do not seem to benefit much from most attainments but find them to be a burden and innovations have not made people happy. On the contrary, a lot of it has made people I'll.
The world is not a better place. It is often ugly, dangerous in many ways, pollutes us and the planet.
I find, nearing the end of my quota, and seeing the changes that there are both more delights, indulgences if you will, than ever but the consequences grow ever more something to ponder as a balance has been lost somehow. The costs in monetary stresses and in health, but the planet we exist upon seem to worsen the human condition and also the other flora and fauna.
Within this balance should be the time to think and also the time to actually be.

Nobility in animals

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