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FOREIGN NonEU DIVORCES

  • 04-09-2014 12:46pm
    #1
    afridi80
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭


    Hello
    I married in ireland with Eu weman and we get divorce in in my country that is nonEu country can I marry now with sameone els in ireland on the base of this divorce?? Thanks


Comments

  • #2
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    The simple answer is maybe.
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/legal_prerequisites_for_marriage.html

    A foreign divorce
    Not all foreign divorces are recognised under Irish law. A foreign divorce will only be recognised in Ireland if at least one spouse was domiciled in the state that granted the divorce when the proceedings started. You may have to provide good evidence that this was the case and, therefore, that the divorce is valid under Irish law.

    Where the divorce comes within EU regulations, it is sufficient to confirm that both parties to the divorce were notified of the proceedings and had an opportunity to give evidence to the court which granted the divorce.

    Where EU regulations do not apply, certain information as to place of birth, countries of residence and other relevant facts must be supplied on a questionnaire provided by the Registrar. The information is then forwarded to the General Register Office, whose consent is required before the marriage ceremony can take place.

    If the General Registrar is of the opinion that the foreign divorce is valid, then the new marriage can go ahead. If not, you can provide additional information to prove validity or else you can apply for a hearing before the Circuit Court. The Court's decision on the validity of a foreign divorce in Irish law is final and binding, although you may, of course, appeal to a higher court. If the Court decides that your foreign divorce is not binding, your only option if you wish to remarry in Ireland may be to get a divorce under Irish law.


  • #3
    dukeraoul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭dukeraoul


    Simples. Avoid getting married in Ireland and marry the woman in another country. No need to deal w/ Catholic dominated marriage/ divorce laws here.


  • #4
    HelenV
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭HelenV


    afridi80 wrote: »
    Hello
    I married in ireland with Eu weman and we get divorce in in my country that is nonEu country can I marry now with sameone els in ireland on the base of this divorce?? Thanks

    Why did you marry in Ireland, divorce in another country entirely and want to re-marry in Ireland?

    Did your legal representative for the divorce not explain that the divorce may not be valid in Ireland? That divorce may not be worth the paper it's written on under Irish law.


  • #5
    dukeraoul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭dukeraoul


    HelenV wrote: »
    Why did you marry in Ireland, divorce in another country entirely and want to re-marry in Ireland?

    Did your legal representative for the divorce not explain that the divorce may not be valid in Ireland? That divorce may not be worth the paper it's written on under Irish law.

    As long as he doesn't remarry in this theocracy he'll be fine.


  • #6
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    dukeraoul wrote: »
    As long as he doesn't remarry in this theocracy he'll be fine.

    Theocracy?
    Isnt marriage a civil arrangement here, a religious ceremony is up to the married people, isnt it?
    I dont know for sure, but I suspect a marriage in Ireland or not to another EU resident likely recognises that marriage or any divorce, but outside that jurisdiction, Id be checking if a divorce is recognised here, should be easy enough if you cant find out yourself which Id say is possible, get some legal advice on the matter.


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  • #7
    dukeraoul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭dukeraoul


    cerastes wrote: »
    Theocracy?
    Isnt marriage a civil arrangement here, a religious ceremony is up to the married people, isnt it?
    I dont know for sure, but I suspect a marriage in Ireland or not to another EU resident likely recognises that marriage or any divorce, but outside that jurisdiction, Id be checking if a divorce is recognised here, should be easy enough if you cant find out yourself which Id say is possible, get some legal advice on the matter.

    It won't matter if some clerk who goes to mass every week "recognises your divorce" if you just buck up and get divorced/ married in another country. You then show up w/ your new marriage certificate. The state turns a complete blind eye. 4-5 years to wait for a divorce is outrageous and even moreso if the poster is Protestant. Avoid silly catholic laws and just go around them....


  • #8
    HelenV
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭HelenV


    dukeraoul wrote: »
    It won't matter if some clerk who goes to mass every week "recognises your divorce" if you just buck up and get divorced/ married in another country. You then show up w/ your new marriage certificate. The state turns a complete blind eye. 4-5 years to wait for a divorce is outrageous and even moreso if the poster is Protestant. Avoid silly catholic laws and just go around them....

    I think it's unfair to be giving the OP emotional advice. The registrar is obliged to conform with current legislation. If the state doesn't recognise the foreign divorce the registrar simply cannot perform the civil cermony.

    Where would he get a marriage certificate from to "show up with"?


  • #9
    dukeraoul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭dukeraoul


    HelenV wrote: »
    I think it's unfair to be giving the OP emotional advice. The registrar is obliged to conform with current legislation. If the state doesn't recognise the foreign divorce the registrar simply cannot perform the civil cermony.

    Where would he get a marriage certificate from to "show up with"?

    Marriage in Gibraltar is very very easy
    They accept divorce decrees from pretty much all countries


  • #10
    dukeraoul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭dukeraoul


    dukeraoul wrote: »
    Marriage in Gibraltar is very very easy
    They accept divorce decrees from pretty much all countries

    Also the OP isn't Irish therefore the Irish gov has no say about his divorce/ marriages abroad - they will recognise the marriage and that is all that matters.

    I do realise though that due to Catholic marriage law the wedding cannot take place here


  • #11
    HelenV
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭HelenV


    dukeraoul wrote: »
    Also the OP isn't Irish therefore the Irish gov has no say about his divorce/ marriages abroad - they will recognise the marriage and that is all that matters.

    I do realise though that due to Catholic marriage law the wedding cannot take place here

    Strange. I would have thought that once the original marriage took place in Ireland under Irish law as opposed to religious law as you suggest the state would most definitely have a say.

    As he was originally married in this country if his divorce is not recognised under Irish law and he subsequently re-marries in this country that could have all sorts of legal implications down the line - say if he wants to purchase a property, maintenance claims, inheritances etc.


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  • #12
    dukeraoul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭dukeraoul


    HelenV wrote: »
    Strange. I would have thought that once the original marriage took place in Ireland under Irish law as opposed to religious law as you suggest the state would most definitely have a say.

    As he was originally married in this country if his divorce is not recognised under Irish law and he subsequently re-marries in this country that could have all sorts of legal implications down the line - say if he wants to purchase a property, maintenance claims, inheritances etc.


    You actually seem to be taking glee in telling the OP he's just gonna have to wait 4 years to get divorced... Sad really


  • #13
    HelenV
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭HelenV


    dukeraoul wrote: »
    You actually seem to be taking glee in telling the OP he's just gonna have to wait 4 years to get divorced... Sad really

    No, I'm actually advising him not to commit a crime. Bigamy is an offence under Irish law for which a jail sentence may be imposed.


  • #14
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    dukeraoul wrote: »
    Also the OP isn't Irish therefore the Irish gov has no say about his divorce/ marriages abroad - they will recognise the marriage and that is all that matters.

    I do realise though that due to Catholic marriage law the wedding cannot take place here

    Incorrect the issue is not citizenship it's domicile.


  • #15
    dukeraoul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭dukeraoul


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    Incorrect the issue is not citizenship it's domicile.

    Yup. And it is nearly impossible to lose your original domicile... Unless you buy a burial plot here or write a will in Ireland you will remain domiciled in your home country...

    Also my point is if the divorce and second marriage happens abroad the state turns a blind eye


  • #16
    HelenV
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭HelenV


    dukeraoul wrote: »
    Yup. And it is nearly impossible to lose your original domicile... Unless you buy a burial plot here or write a will in Ireland you will remain domiciled in your home country...

    Also my point is if the divorce and second marriage happens abroad the state turns a blind eye

    Ah now I see the problem - you didn't actually read the OP correctly at all.

    He wants to re-marry in Ireland not abroad.


  • #17
    dukeraoul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭dukeraoul


    HelenV wrote: »
    Ah now I see the problem - you didn't actually read the OP correctly at all.

    He wants to re-marry in Ireland not abroad.

    Gotcha- fair enough so. In that case he will have to follow your Catholic/ theocratic divorce laws ... Carry on and careful now....


  • #18
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    dukeraoul wrote: »
    Yup. And it is nearly impossible to lose your original domicile... Unless you buy a burial plot here or write a will in Ireland you will remain domiciled in your home country...

    Also my point is if the divorce and second marriage happens abroad the state turns a blind eye

    First marriage was ireland divorce was abroad and now wants to marry in ireland the OP's citizenship does not matter ireland is involved and the decision on the divorce will be made within the law and blind eyes will not be turned.


  • #19
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    dukeraoul wrote: »
    Gotcha- fair enough so. In that case he will have to follow your Catholic/ theocratic divorce laws ... Carry on and careful now....

    Only if his divorce is not recognised. BTW catholic divorce is almost an oxymoron.


  • #20
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    dukeraoul wrote: »
    Also the OP isn't Irish therefore the Irish gov has no say about his divorce/ marriages abroad - they will recognise the marriage and that is all that matters.

    I do realise though that due to Catholic marriage law the wedding cannot take place here

    While I think its ridiulous to have to wait 4 years ( I think immediate on the spot would be ridiculous too, but thats for another thread), it doesnt matter what people agree with or not, its what will be allowed or not.
    If the original marriage was here, Id be suspect of being able to get divorced abroad and remarried here again, or even remarried abroad and having it be possible to be recognised here, never mind what the implications are for the jurisdiction you get married in the second time. I would think its a standard thing to be asked anywhere that polygamy isnt tolerated "are you married?" In which case that might undermine that marriage legality.
    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    Only if his divorce is not recognised. BTW catholic divorce is almost an oxymoron.

    Was the first marriage a religious marriage, catholic? other? or a civil marriage?
    The may be able to get divorced, but I dont know if thaats recognised in the RC church? if this was a catholic marriage, they wont be able to get married in the RC faith again Id have thought.


  • #21
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,690 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    dukeraoul wrote: »
    Also the OP isn't Irish therefore the Irish gov has no say about his divorce/ marriages abroad - they will recognise the marriage and that is all that matters.

    I do realise though that due to Catholic marriage law the wedding cannot take place here
    This has got nothing to do with "Catholic marriage law". Lose the blinkers, and the chip on your shoulder, and you might be better positioned to offer people useful advice on this subject.

    The rule in Ireland about recognition of foreign divorces - which we inherited from England, not from the Catholic church - is that a foreign divorce is recognised if it's granted in a country in which either of the spouses is domiciled. If the OP has retained a domicile in his home country he can divorce there, Irish law will recognise the divorce and he is free to remarry in Ireland. It does not matter where the first marriage was celebrated.

    It is not true that Gibraltar "will recognise divorces from all countries". The rule in Gibraltar is similar to the Irish rule, but slightly wider; Gibraltar will recognise a foreign divorce if either of the spouses is (a) domiciled in, or (b) a habitual resident of, or (c) a citizen of the jurisdiction where the divorce is granted.


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