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Shotgun handed into barracks gone

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  • 23-05-2014 3:13pm
    #1
    Apocalypse
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭


    Hi lads

    Just wondering where I stand with this.
    My grandfather had a shotgun , which was a Purdey , valuable make im told.
    After my father died we had to hand it into the local barracks.
    My mother gave it in with strict instructions that it not be destroyed etc .. and that my uncle would collect it.
    A few years later I think my uncle finally got around to go and collect it , the Gardai said they had no record of it.
    Is this a case of some guard stealing it ?
    Or if they have it for a certain length of time it gets destroyed ?

    Thanks


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    #2
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,237 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    A few years later your uncle 'got around' to collecting it?

    I think you may have your answer there...


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    #3
    Officer Giggles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭Officer Giggles


    I would say it was destroyed, after two years did your uncle really think it'd still be there


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    #4
    whomitconcerns
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    endacl wrote: »
    A few years later your uncle 'got around' to collecting it?

    I think you may have your answer there...

    A few years later HE THINKS his uncle 'got around' to collecting it! :P

    Thats destroyed op...sorry!


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    #5
    bravestar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭bravestar


    Apocalypse wrote: »
    Hi lads

    Just wondering where I stand with this.
    My grandfather had a shotgun , which was a Purdey , valuable make im told.
    After my father died we had to hand it into the local barracks.
    My mother gave it in with strict instructions that it not be destroyed etc .. and that my uncle would collect it.
    A few years later I think my uncle finally got around to go and collect it , the Gardai said they had no record of it.
    Is this a case of some guard stealing it ?
    Or if they have it for a certain length of time it gets destroyed ?

    Thanks

    Garda stations are not a dumping ground for your unwanted bits. It was an unlicensed firearm and was surrendered to An Garda Siochana who will dispose of it as they see fit. If you wanted someone to hang on to it for a while, a few years in this case, you should have paid a registered firearms dealer to do so.

    Your mother doesn't get to boss any member of AGS around with "strict instructions".


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    #6
    ravima
    Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭ravima


    have you the serial no?

    If so, you might be able to track the current licence holder. This would not be easy, but you could write to garda commissioner or get a solicitor to do so. You would probably need some sort of proof though that it was your grandfathers.

    You are correct - Purdy are a valuable gun.


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    #7
    Reedsie
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭Reedsie


    If it was indeed a Purdey it was likely to be, at the very least, a €7,000 gun. That's scraping the barrel, they'd average at a lot higher than that. And go up to hundreds of thousands.

    If your mother handed it in with an agreement to store it then there is definitely a question to answer on where it went.
    But as has been mentioned it wasn't wise to forget about it for a few years.

    If there was an agreement to store it there they should contact you before destroying it.
    There is also the possibility that somebody realised its value.

    Did your uncle or mother talk to the same Garda who took it in/did they remember it?


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    #8
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    I never knew that Garda stations were for safe keeping peoples belongings.


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    #9
    bravestar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭bravestar


    kub wrote: »
    I never knew that Garda stations were for safe keeping peoples belongings.

    Yeah! I'm just gonna drop in the other halfs jewellery, with strict instructions, that they don't get rid of it. If herself is lucky, I might get my granddads uncles hairdresser to pick it up in a few years when were going on our trip to Mars.


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    #10
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Paddy_R wrote: »
    If it was indeed a Purdey it was likely to be, at the very least, a €7,000 gun. That's scraping the barrel, they'd average at a lot higher than that. And go up to hundreds of thousands.

    If your mother handed it in with an agreement to store it then there is definitely a question to answer on where it went.
    But as has been mentioned it wasn't wise to forget about it for a few years.

    If there was an agreement to store it there they should contact you before destroying it.
    There is also the possibility that somebody realised its value.

    Did your uncle or mother talk to the same Garda who took it in/did they remember it?

    An agreement to store it? They had a legal requirement to hand it in. You don't then give instructions on storage.


  • Options
    #11
    Dermot Illogical
    Registered Users Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Dermot Illogical


    Apocalypse wrote: »
    Hi lads

    Just wondering where I stand with this.
    My grandfather had a shotgun , which was a Purdey , valuable make im told.
    After my father died we had to hand it into the local barracks.
    My mother gave it in with strict instructions that it not be destroyed etc .. and that my uncle would collect it.
    A few years later I think my uncle finally got around to go and collect it , the Gardai said they had no record of it.
    Is this a case of some guard stealing it ?
    Or if they have it for a certain length of time it gets destroyed ?

    Thanks

    Leaving aside the "strict instructions" and all that, there should be a record at the least. Was there a receipt? Have you a serial number? Name of the person it was handed to? Are you certain it was handed in? Do you know the approximate date it was handed in?

    In any event, write to the Superintendent's office seeking information rather than simply accepting an answer given by whoever happens to be manning the counter.
    Give as much accurate information as possible for best results.


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    #12
    Reedsie
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭Reedsie


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    An agreement to store it? They had a legal requirement to hand it in. You don't then give instructions on storage.

    Look, we don't know how the conversation went between the two parties. I have witnessed many, many incidents where the Gardai have went way beyond the call of duty to assist members of the public, including storing items for a period of time. It still happens today, maybe decreasingly so, but it still happens.
    In any group of people some will be more helpful than others.

    If there was an agreement to store the guns, the party should most definitely have been informed if this situation changed.
    If there was no agreement then tough luck.


    In any case, it was madness to wait a few years before heading in to collect it.


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    #13
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Paddy_R wrote: »
    Look, we don't know how the conversation went between the two parties. I have witnessed many, many incidents where the Gardai have went way beyond the call of duty to assist members of the public, including storing items for a period of time. It still happens today, maybe decreasingly so, but it still happens.
    In any group of people some will be more helpful than others.

    If there was an agreement to store the guns, the party should most definitely have been informed if this situation changed.
    If there was no agreement then tough luck.


    In any case, it was madness to wait a few years before heading in to collect it.

    It doesn't matter if there was an agreement or not. There was a legal requirement to hand it in. If you call the tax office and say "Hey, I'm paying my car tax but I expect you to resurface my road in return", they are under no obligation to resurface your road. They don't have to offer you an incentive to obey the law.


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    #14
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,497 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Paddy_R wrote: »
    Look, we don't know how the conversation went between the two parties. I have witnessed many, many incidents where the Gardai have went way beyond the call of duty to assist members of the public, including storing items for a period of time. It still happens today, maybe decreasingly so, but it still happens.
    In any group of people some will be more helpful than others.

    If there was an agreement to store the guns, the party should most definitely have been informed if this situation changed.
    If there was no agreement then tough luck.


    In any case, it was madness to wait a few years before heading in to collect it.

    A firearms dealer will charge you to store it, the Gardai aren't going to store it for a 'few years' for free. If you hand a gun into a Garda station it's destined for destruction.


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    #15
    Stella Virgo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 478 ✭✭Stella Virgo


    endacl wrote: »
    A few years later your uncle 'got around' to collecting it?

    I think you may have your answer there...
    also here.....:pac::pac:


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    #16
    Reedsie
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭Reedsie


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    It doesn't matter if there was an agreement or not. There was a legal requirement to hand it in. If you call the tax office and say "Hey, I'm paying my car tax but I expect you to resurface my road in return", they are under no obligation to resurface your road. They don't have to offer you an incentive to obey the law.

    I don't know what you're trying to put across there. Nobody is arguing the fact that the gun could no longer be stored at the house of the deceased. The gun could either be stored at a station (no obligation) or at a gun dealers.
    Guns have been stored in stations for years for various different reasons.

    That tax office analogy is nonsensical.


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    #17
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Paddy_R wrote: »
    I don't know what you're trying to put across there. Nobody is arguing the fact that the gun could no longer be stored at the house of the deceased. The gun could either be stored at a station (no obligation) or at a gun dealers.
    Guns have been stored in stations for years for various different reasons.

    That tax office analogy is nonsensical.

    I'm saying any agreement is moot because she was legally obliged to hand it in anyway.


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    #18
    galwayredgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭galwayredgirl


    Apocalypse wrote: »
    Hi lads


    My mother gave it in with strict instructions that it not be destroyed etc .. and that my uncle would collect it.


    Thanks

    Kinda like a pawn shop service?


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    #19
    Chiparus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    While I agree that the garda station should not be a storage for peoples private belongings , there should be some record of a firearm being handed in.

    It could be worth €20000 plus, cheapest new is €40000, older guns can be worth considerably more than that.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a2yaN_wmk4X0


    Report it stolen , it maybe a crime not to, they should
    get the GSOC involved.

    Also contact Purdey, they may be able to help

    http://www.purdey.com/purdey-owners/


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    #20
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Apocalypse wrote: »
    Hi lads

    Just wondering where I stand with this.
    My grandfather had a shotgun , which was a Purdey , valuable make im told.
    After my father died we had to hand it into the local barracks.
    My mother gave it in with strict instructions that it not be destroyed etc .. and that my uncle would collect it.
    A few years later I think my uncle finally got around to go and collect it , the Gardai said they had no record of it.
    Is this a case of some guard stealing it ?
    Or if they have it for a certain length of time it gets destroyed ?

    Send a letter to the local superintendent outlining the details and mention the value of the gun and threaten to seek recovery of the cost of the gun. However you would need at some point to prove who the weapon was left to in the will and the complaint would need to come from them, see how his investigation goes and if needs be pursue the matter through the civil courts if it is worth that much. It's Possible your mother may have told the gardai she didn't want it and signed a destruction form and then told you she told them to keep it after you came enquiring!


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    #21
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,237 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    Apocalypse wrote: »
    Hi lads

    Just wondering where I stand with this.
    My grandfather had a shotgun , which was a Purdey , valuable make im told.
    After my father died we had to hand it into the local barracks.
    My mother gave it in with strict instructions that it not be destroyed etc .. and that my uncle would collect it.
    A few years later I think my uncle finally got around to go and collect it , the Gardai said they had no record of it.
    Is this a case of some guard stealing it ?
    Or if they have it for a certain length of time it gets destroyed ?

    Send a letter to the local superintendent outlining the details and mention the value of the gun and threaten to seek recovery of the cost of the gun. However you would need at some point to prove who the weapon was left to in the will and the complaint would need to come from them, see how his investigation goes and if needs be pursue the matter through the civil courts if it is worth that much. It's Possible your mother may have told the gardai she didn't want it and signed a destruction form and then told you she told them to keep it after you came enquiring!

    This still presumes a 'storage' service on the part of the guards. This service does not exist. Seem to me that it would be a massive wast of time, money, and effort to pursue a pointless action through the courts.

    The guards don't differentiate between the value of firearms. A gun is a gun. The gun should have been left in the care of a licences dealer and the family should have paid for the service.


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    #22
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    endacl wrote: »
    Shady Tady wrote: »

    This still presumes a 'storage' service on the part of the guards. This service does not exist. Seem to me that it would be a massive wast of time, money, and effort to pursue a pointless action through the courts.

    The guards don't differentiate between the value of firearms. A gun is a gun. The gun should have been left in the care of a licences dealer and the family should have paid for the service.

    True, but court is a funny place and if the gardai undertook to store the weapon them it's their problem, it is done in certain cases (short term) and is not always good practice as is now evident


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    #23
    meathstevie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    Although it's quite negligent on behalf of the family to not follow up any sooner on taking possession of the shotgun again the issue still is that a rather valuable item of private property appears to have gone missing from a Garda station. Purdey shotguns depending on condition and provenance are worth anything from a couple of thousand Euro for one in rather poor condition to the equivalent of a 4 bed semi house within commuting distance from Dublin.

    Any Garda worth his/her salt taking possession of such an item would have made a note somewhere to cover their backside.


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    #24
    Lmklad
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭Lmklad


    It would be worth trying to find out if a Property Order was made to the District Court. This is done in cases where property has been in a Garda Station for a long period of time and goes unclaimed. The Judge can hand over the property to the State to be disposed of.

    I'd also ask for the guns serial number to be checked on pulse. If it's been sold or destroyed it should show up there.


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    #25
    TriangularGuy
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭TriangularGuy


    In the 1970s, Ireland effectively banned handguns, high-calibre rifles and repeating shotguns; regarded as a policy decision rather than a legislative one. this was mainly due to the troubles but anyway it resulted in guns being handed in to barracks' all around the country and I know definitely of one case of a pistol handed in the 70's that is still in the barracks here and I know this for fact as i was talking with the Sergeant regarding it.
    As far as I know on this topic the only real guns getting destroyed are AK-47's collected by our peace keepers in foreign lands and illegally smuggled firearms often brought in with drug shipments.
    So to answer your question it is very likely that this firearm is still in your barracks just more information is required for them to find it i.e. a serial number. There is a chance it was improperly stored and has disappeared but more than likely is there. However definitely your family should have received official documentation regarding it. You uncle should return with more information on it to the barracks. Keep us updated please.


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    #26
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    TriangularGuy wrote: »
    As far as I know on this topic the only real guns getting destroyed are AK-47's collected by our peace keepers in foreign lands and illegally smuggled firearms often brought in with drug shipments.

    I can 110% this is incorrect.


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