can you get a job in development without degree

hagoonabear · 07-04-2015 9:12pm #1

Hi guys is it possible to get a job/internship in development without a degree? Learning python and c programming

L.Jenkins · 07-04-2015 9:38pm

Without a Degree, it would be quite difficult as you'd have a large pool of People to compete against. Are you working towards a Degree at all or just learning Python and C?

brevity · 07-04-2015 9:46pm

I'd say it would be quite hard. Try and complete an evening course or something like that.

You need to get a few personal projects out there on something like github to show people your work.

doopa · 07-04-2015 9:52pm

A number of larger companies offer schemes to recruit people before they go to third level education. Citi in Belfast for example. EY & the other Tier2 consultancy companies offer similar schemes. Most of them will let you take a degree part time whilst you work for them.

Manach · 07-04-2015 9:58pm

Best bet a HDip, one year that would give an a sufficent academic grounding.

hagoonabear · 07-04-2015 10:58pm

Oh I see, well I have tried looking at online degrees and diplomas for it/developing but don't really know any places to do so, can a hdip be gotten if I am an undergraduate?

red_ice · 08-04-2015 9:17pm

A degree means nothing in web imo. Its a formality if anything. I've binned more CV's that have degrees and employed guys that have a good portfolio over good grades.

Infact, I've at least had an interview for every job I've applied for and my CV doesn't mention the fact I have a cert, hdip and 2 degrees.

Write good code, get it on github, let people see your application(s), the jobs will come.

Dale Parish · 08-04-2015 11:20pm

It's not essential but I guess it's important from a HR perspective.

I reckon a large and/or impressive portfolio is key, especially if you don't have a degree.

I work for a large multinational in Dublin and I have no degree so it is possible.
(I'm 22 so I was hired here recently, rather than in any new-technology-panic-recruiting)

The Corinthian · 09-04-2015 12:50pm

hagoonabear wrote: »

Hi guys is it possible to get a job/internship in development without a degree? Learning python and c programming

Quick answer; in an economic boom, yes. In a tighter market, where competition for a more limited number of jobs, far less.

That's why people, even with degrees, continue to study. A masters, postgraduate diploma, or professional cert can be the difference between making on the shortlist or the reject pile.

amen · 09-04-2015 1:39pm

Red_Ice and Dale, Development is not just Web development.

Its everything from compilers, drives, mainframes, in house systems, MIS, business tier, Database development.

It is very hard to have a portfolio for those non web development job.

As for GitHub projects, thats a great ideabut for most people there is not enough time in the day to code Open source projects.

At the end of the day while you don't need a degree to code you most likely need one to get past HR and get an interview.

A degree (hopefully) also signifies you understand the theory, design patterns, why code works the way it does, how the hardware works etc

In my mind the IT Industry is similar to Civil/Auto/Mechanical Engineering in the early years of those fields where anyone could call themselves and engineer and build a bridge/car etc Its only when the bridges collapsed, cars turn over, crash etc were regulations enacted. Same will happen with IT eventually.

The Corinthian · 09-04-2015 2:49pm

amen wrote: »

In my mind the IT Industry is similar to Civil/Auto/Mechanical Engineering in the early years of those fields where anyone could call themselves and engineer and build a bridge/car etc Its only when the bridges collapsed, cars turn over, crash etc were regulations enacted. Same will happen with IT eventually.

I think it's astounding that it hasn't already. There have been so many projects screwed up by cowboy coders, leading to serious financial damage to the client organizations, that I'm not sure why there has not been more law suits, in turn leading to greater regulation in the industry, as a result.

Aswerty · 09-04-2015 5:02pm

Amen wrote:

It is very hard to have a portfolio for those non web development job.

For the most part the portfolio requirement, at least from what I see, is for stuff you do on your own time. Which makes it just as doable for most of the non web development guys and when it isn't nobody ask about a portfolio (e.g. mainframe work). Personally, I don't like the expectation that one programs outside of work; but some people do take it as a given (not pointing fingers) that good devs have personal projects. Though that's not to say people shouldn't be expected to continually improve themselves but that is a very broad area; well beyond the scope of personal projects.

I'd much prefer go to a talk, dabble in a new language, or try out some new tool than create software on my own time since that is the stuff I don't do on the job.

But to bring it back to the OP's question. I wouldn't advise anyone to try get into the industry without a qualification. That's not to say it isn't possible but you'd be an outlier if you do manage it. Getting your foot in the door is probably the toughest thing in a career and no qualification would impact you at that stage the most.

tramoreman · 12-04-2015 6:09pm

Employers would take on people that have experience and no qualifications was told that at a jobs fair just make sure you have a portfolio its a must a qualificatipn would be a plus

amen · 12-04-2015 6:28pm

tramoreman wrote: »

Employers would take on people that have experience and no qualifications was told that at a jobs fair just make sure you have a portfolio its a must a qualificatipn would be a plus

so you have just left school (18/19) or maybe evening working side projects and you are 21/22 what sort of real life development experience* do you have ? Do you understand the all the theory behind what you are working on, design patterns, how a computer works, algorithms etc ?

Again some really good people may get a job if they have relevant experience but the problem is getting the experience without a degree.

*Creating WordPress templates is not development experience

tramoreman · 12-04-2015 8:00pm

amen wrote: »

so you have just left school (18/19) or maybe evening working side projects and you are 21/22 what sort of real life development experience* do you have ? Do you understand the all the theory behind what you are working on, design patterns, how a computer works, algorithms etc ?

Again some really good people may get a job if they have relevant experience but the problem is getting the experience without a degree.

*Creating WordPress templates is not development experience

You should be attacking the post not the poster im older than that and no i dont do wordpress and i know a great deal about computers

Berserker · 12-04-2015 8:50pm

amen wrote: »

Do you understand the all the theory behind what you are working on, design patterns, how a computer works, algorithms etc ?

On a slight side topic, I have just performed a round of interviews for a developer position and was shocked by the number of candidates who did not know about design patterns or the basic theory behind software development.

OP, you can get a job without experience but it is extremely difficult. In most organisations, HR will filter the CVs submitted and those who have a degree will 'make the cut' ahead of those who don't. I have performed interviews for SE roles in a few companies and can't recall ever interviewing someone who hasn't got a degree level qualification.

L.Jenkins · 12-04-2015 9:37pm

Berserker wrote: »

On a slight side topic, I have just performed a round of interviews for a developer position and was shocked by the number of candidates who did not know about design patterns or the basic theory behind software development.

OP, you can get a job without experience but it is extremely difficult. In most organisations, HR will filter the CVs submitted and those who have a degree will 'make the cut' ahead of those who don't. I have performed interviews for SE roles in a few companies and can't recall ever interviewing someone who hasn't got a degree level qualification.

How many Colleges in the Country would actually survey IT Companies to find the short falls in knowledge potential candidates are going into the real world with?

amen · 13-04-2015 12:06pm

tramoreman wrote: »

You should be attacking the post not the poster im older than that and no i dont do wordpress and i know a great deal about computers

Sorry I didn't mean that to come across as attacking the poster. I was trying to tackle the post. Sorry for any offence.

L.Jenkins · 13-04-2015 12:55pm

amen wrote: »

so you have just left school (18/19) or maybe evening working side projects and you are 21/22 what sort of real life development experience* do you have ? Do you understand the all the theory behind what you are working on, design patterns, how a computer works, algorithms etc ?

Again some really good people may get a job if they have relevant experience but the problem is getting the experience without a degree.

*Creating WordPress templates is not development experience

It's not a catch 22 situation when it comes to experience, whether you have a degree/job or not. If your willingness to actually work on projects in your own time, developing a portfolio, which can be presented at an interview.

When I was unemployed for nearly 5-6 months in 2013, alongside applying for jobs and attending interviews, I was working on my own projects, from Linux to Applications across a broad range of technology stacks. This allowed to update my CV and LinkedIn profile, which worked in my favor. I'm now in my current position nearly a year.

Berserker · 13-04-2015 6:51pm

Itzy wrote: »

How many Colleges in the Country would actually survey IT Companies to find the short falls in knowledge potential candidates are going into the real world with?

None that I know of. I spoke to a staff member from one of the NUIs recently and he was more interested in 'protecting' the final year students from the advances of companies. He didn't seem too interested or aware of any shortfalls in terms of knowledge.

The Freeman · 13-04-2015 7:40pm

Would any of ye guys value a course with say team treehouse or code.org? Seem to have a lot of info and highly thought of.

doopa · 13-04-2015 9:06pm

Berserker wrote: »

None that I know of. I spoke to a staff member from one of the NUIs recently and he was more interested in 'protecting' the final year students from the advances of companies. He didn't seem too interested or aware of any shortfalls in terms of knowledge.

All of them will be doing this regularly. There will be a committee in each department charged with compiling an annual report on the employability of their students.

There does seem to be a particular problem with Comp Sci students though e.g.
https://targetjobs.co.uk/career-sectors/it-and-technology/323039-why-your-computer-science-degree-wont-get-you-an-it-job

The Corinthian · 14-04-2015 9:05am

Berserker wrote: »

He didn't seem too interested or aware of any shortfalls in terms of knowledge.

I don't have a lot of time for CS academia. They live in a confortable little World, where doing more than 20 hours a week is overtime and much of the cutting edge technology taught is already five or more years out of date in the real World. It's not unusual to find leacutrers in databases with little or no experience in MySQL or Oracle, or VB6 still used to teach programming.

Even writing an academic paper is frustrating to say the least, as those sources you are allowed to draw on are just more out of date academics, with anything more cutting edge not acceptable, because it is not 'academically peer reviewed'.

The whole racket appears to be designed to protect a bunch of self-entitled academics in cushy jobs, who couldn't hold down a job in the private sector to save their lives, if the had to.

As a result, while such courses are good at teaching fundamentals that have not really changed in twenty years (and these are important), they're pretty useless at making one ready for a real work environment or the actual technologies they will be employing.

doopa wrote: »

There does seem to be a particular problem with Comp Sci students though

That's because many CS students should not really be studying a vocation that they have no real vocation in. It's like being a doctor or lawyer, except easier and attracts those who like or feel they know something about computers. Why do you think there are so many CS graduates who quickly move into less technical roles in the business?

In fairness, IT is not alone in this, I originally studied economics and finance, before I realized I had no real passion for it.

doopa · 14-04-2015 7:35pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

I don't have a lot of time for CS academia. They live in a confortable little World, where doing more than 20 hours a week is overtime and much of the cutting edge technology taught is already five or more years out of date in the real World. It's not unusual to find leacutrers in databases with little or no experience in MySQL or Oracle, or VB6 still used to teach programming.

Even writing an academic paper is frustrating to say the least, as those sources you are allowed to draw on are just more out of date academics, with anything more cutting edge not acceptable, because it is not 'academically peer reviewed'.

The whole racket appears to be designed to protect a bunch of self-entitled academics in cushy jobs, who couldn't hold down a job in the private sector to save their lives, if the had to.

As a result, while such courses are good at teaching fundamentals that have not really changed in twenty years (and these are important), they're pretty useless at making one ready for a real work environment or the actual technologies they will be employing.

This seems to be a fairly common trope - real world programmers dissing academic computer scientists. It overlooks the fact that academics invented the whole idea of programming, all the languages, wireless, networking... etc etc. Maybe it depends where you go to uni but the good ones will have more exposure to actual technologies.

That's because many CS students should not really be studying a vocation that they have no real vocation in. It's like being a doctor or lawyer, except easier and attracts those who like or feel they know something about computers. Why do you think there are so many CS graduates who quickly move into less technical roles in the business?

In fairness, IT is not alone in this, I originally studied economics and finance, before I realized I had no real passion for it.

Whilst IT is not alone in this it does seem to be by far the worst. Perhaps because of the way it is taught and maybe sold to student before signing up. Personally I would advocate vocational programming/engineering courses and a separate academic computer science degree. Because quite often they are very different things.

The Corinthian · 15-04-2015 8:53am

doopa wrote: »

This seems to be a fairly common trope - real world programmers dissing academic computer scientists. It overlooks the fact that academics invented the whole idea of programming, all the languages, wireless, networking... etc etc. Maybe it depends where you go to uni but the good ones will have more exposure to actual technologies.

That may have been the case prior to the Internet, but I don't think you can say that anymore and for a long time now.

That is not to say that academia has no value or no place. I think it essential for any developer to have done some form of formal qualification and to understand the fundamental theory which is increasingly abstracted and hidden from coders nowadays - the number of 'Web developers' who don't really understand even the basic client-server model is frightening.

However it seems that computer science academia has been sitting on its laurels for a good while now, with the vast majority (certainly in Ireland) sitting far behind the private sector in terms of development of the field.

red_ice · 15-04-2015 6:28pm

amen wrote: »

Red_Ice and Dale, Development is not just Web development.

Its everything from compilers, drives, mainframes, in house systems, MIS, business tier, Database development.

It is very hard to have a portfolio for those non web development job.

Amen (ir amen? if so, long time!)

Well that's where the actual interview kicks in and also what type of developer you are? Front-end web dev wouldn't need to know about compilers/drives. My point (I suppose) was that reading through code will separate the men from the boys. You can be book smart all you like, its actually applying that learning to something that counts imo, hence the degree not being as important. In an interview you would expect to get more granular with regards details.

amen wrote: »

As for GitHub projects, thats a great ideabut for most people there is not enough time in the day to code Open source projects.

To me spending 30 minutes looking into someones code to see if they are up to scratch would be time better spent than finding out after an hour long interview.

amen wrote: »

In my mind the IT Industry is similar to Civil/Auto/Mechanical Engineering in the early years of those fields where anyone could call themselves and engineer and build a bridge/car etc Its only when the bridges collapsed, cars turn over, crash etc were regulations enacted. Same will happen with IT eventually.

I cannot wait for this to happen.

Aswerty wrote: »

Personally, I don't like the expectation that one programs outside of work

I wouldn't expect it from a developer, but I would hold them in higher regard. I cannot fathom the amount of times a theoretical approach to something I have dreamed up has some into play in my professional work.

Aswerty wrote: »

But to bring it back to the OP's question. I wouldn't advise anyone to try get into the industry without a qualification. That's not to say it isn't possible but you'd be an outlier if you do manage it. Getting your foot in the door is probably the toughest thing in a career and no qualification would impact you at that stage the most.

I agree. While I did say I feel it means nothing (and sort of contradicted that by saying I was in college for 10 years), I would always advise someone to get a good foundation in their field. I am going purely on the op's question tho, which was 'can you get a job in development without degree' and if you want to go down that route - see comment on github etc etc

redman85 · 16-04-2015 12:20am

Berserker wrote: »

On a slight side topic, I have just performed a round of interviews for a developer position and was shocked by the number of candidates who did not know about design patterns or the basic theory behind software development.

What level of knowledge would you be expecting about design patterns? As a student I would be able to talk about the theory behind the main ones and where they should be used but I would not be able to explain the implementation of them.

yes there · 16-04-2015 8:37am

redman85 wrote: »

What level of knowledge would you be expecting about design patterns? As a student I would be able to talk about the theory behind the main ones and where they should be used but I would not be able to explain the implementation of them.

And therein lies the problem. So you're telling me you wouldnt know how to implement a pattern given a simple scenario for example, creating objects/change behaviour at run time. You must know the most basic one of all.

redman85 · 16-04-2015 10:26am

yes there wrote: »

And therein lies the problem. So you're telling me you wouldnt know how to implement a pattern given a simple scenario for example

Sorry I think I was misleading, what I meant was the implementation of the design pattern itself, ie write your own pub sub pattern

jester77 · 16-04-2015 10:50am

Well, anyone who is anyway semi-serious about being a developer would need to understand fundamental design patterns, identify them by looking at existing code and know which patterns are best to apply in a given situation based on requirements. It's not hard to throw code together, anyone with basic knowledge can do this, but being able to build a solution using best practices based off existing templates requires some level of skill and knowledge. If someone can display this level of knowledge without a degree then I don't see why they wouldn't be able to land a development position.

yes there · 16-04-2015 12:35pm

redman85 wrote: »

Sorry I think I was misleading, what I meant was the implementation of the design pattern itself, ie write your own pub sub pattern

How is that even possible if you know the theory behind them and also implement them. I dont understand how you can't. Its umpossible. I think you might be selling yourself short, another common problem with inexperienced, most know more than they think they know.

Jim2007 · 18-04-2015 10:30pm

jester77 wrote: »

Well, anyone who is anyway semi-serious about being a developer would need to understand fundamental design patterns, identify them by looking at existing code and know which patterns are best to apply in a given situation based on requirements. It's not hard to throw code together, anyone with basic knowledge can do this, but being able to build a solution using best practices based off existing templates requires some level of skill and knowledge. If someone can display this level of knowledge without a degree then I don't see why they wouldn't be able to land a development position.

The problem is that they will not get past the first HR filter - a degree...

L.Jenkins · 19-04-2015 12:12pm

It is possible to bypass HR and go straight to the hiring manager themselves.

Jim2007 · 19-04-2015 2:48pm

Itzy wrote: »

It is possible to bypass HR and go straight to the hiring manager themselves.

Not in the vast majority of situations as you would need to know who actual hiring manager is and he would need to be willing to by pass the hiring process, in other words not a very realistic prospect. I really don't have much time for 'flying pigs'.

croo · 19-04-2015 3:49pm

Jim2007 wrote: »

...in other words not a very realistic prospect. I really don't have much time for 'flying pigs'.

So we can take it, you believe there are no people (or few at least) in developer positions today who don't have CS/IT degrees?

Personally, I never found there was much relationship between having a CS degree and being a good developer, usually the students knowledge was quiet dated. In fairness, the IT world changes so rapidly that you could learning something in first year that is obsolete by the time you complete... well not quite but nearly

Case in point, there was someone, in another post here recently, asking for grinds in DFD's & ER Diagrams! For a business degree admittedly but this was a computing module, I'd say there is a good chance that the CS students get the same. Those topics might be interesting for the history of computing courses :rolleyes:

When I think back, to the people I worked with, which I considered were the best developers, more didn't have a CS degrees than did - while many did have some other degree though! Personally I look for people who just love developing but then I'm not HR!

beauf · 19-04-2015 4:29pm

croo wrote: »

So we can take it, you believe there are no people (or few at least) in developer positions today who don't have CS/IT degrees?...

I think you need to differentiate between experienced people and new entrants.

In my experience the vast majority of pure developers (as in its their primary activity) I've worked all have a diploma or degree, or masters in Computing in some form.

Lots of people are in development but aren't really pure developers. As in its not their primary activity. You might get those with other degrees. They tend to be older experienced people.

Jim2007 · 19-04-2015 7:42pm

croo wrote: »

So we can take it, you believe there are no people (or few at least) in developer positions today who don't have CS/IT degrees?

No not at all, put most of them are my age (50+) or 10 years younger.

croo wrote: »

When I think back, to the people I worked with, which I considered were the best developers, more didn't have a CS degrees than did - while many did have some other degree though! Personally I look for people who just love developing but then I'm not HR!

It really does not matter what we think, a degree is the standard filter these days with agencies, HR depts etc... And anyone starting out now would be very foolish to think that a degree is not necessary.

The Corinthian · 20-04-2015 10:46am

croo wrote: »

So we can take it, you believe there are no people (or few at least) in developer positions today who don't have CS/IT degrees?

There are practically none who have no degree at all.

As for CS degree, there would be very few who will have no third level CS qualification (be it a CS primary degree or CS postgraduate with a non-CS primary), after their first few years as developers.

As Jim2007 pointed out, whether one believes that a CS degree makes you a better developer or not is irrelevant, as this is simply one of the primary filters employed by HR, like it or not.

As such it's cyclical, in that during the boom times, those without CS degrees will be able to find jobs, as will those without degrees in the first place (although, this has been uncommon since the Dotcom), but my experience has been that even if they enter the industry without a degree or CS degree, almost all will end up getting one within their first decade because of how hiring works.

beauf · 20-04-2015 11:47am

The Corinthian wrote: »

....but my experience has been that even if they enter the industry without a degree or CS degree, almost all will end up getting one within their first decade because of how hiring works.

Apart from that most IT depts, will encourage people to do courses, and CS degrees part time. This best suits people with no commitments outside of work, family etc. As you get older you most likely have less free time. So the people without degrees tend to older people, who were already working IT lots experience, before it became a de facto standard.

Even then you'll find internal roles will look for qualifications and CS degrees as a requirement for promotions.

The Corinthian · 20-04-2015 3:07pm

beauf wrote: »

So the people without degrees tend to older people, who were already working IT lots experience, before it became a de facto standard.

No, a degree was always sought. It's just that between about 1996 and 2000 we had such an unprecedented boom in IT that the capacity to switch on and off a computer qualified you for a job. So it's not so much older developers, but those who would have entered the industry during those years will be less likely to have any degree, let alone a CS one.

amen · 20-04-2015 3:15pm

croo wrote: »

In fairness, the IT world changes so rapidly that you could learning something in first year that is obsolete by the time you complete... well not quite but nearly

You seem to be missing the point of a CS Degree. The CS degree is not there to teach someone how to program in Java/C/VB etc. The degree is there to provide a solid theoritical understanding and background in how computers work, how programmes work and an understanding of algorithms. A good way to teach this is be using a programme language.

A good CS student should hopefully be able to pick up any programming language with relative ease. The fundamentals are the same. For instance when Civil Engineers learn about bridge design they are taught about the forces in play, how to calculate the forces, loads etc.

They can then take this knowledge and build a bridge out of wood, concrete, steel etc. Similarly a CS Grad can take their CS knowledge and build you a system in C/Java/C# etc

croo wrote: »

Case in point, there was someone, in another post here recently, asking for grinds in DFD's & ER Diagrams! For a business degree admittedly but this was a computing module, I'd say there is a good chance that the CS students get the same. Those topics might be interesting for the history of computing courses :rolleyes:

I'm not sure you if you are joking or no but what is wrong with knowing ow DFDS & ER work ? How do you intend to model your system ?

croo wrote: »

When I think back, to the people I worked with, which I considered were the best developers, more didn't have a CS degrees than did - while many did have some other degree though! Personally I look for people who just love developing but then I'm not HR!

yeah but they had a degree in something which is the what the OP asked. Basically no degree = very hard to get a job

croo · 21-04-2015 2:38pm

amen wrote: »

You seem to be missing the point of a CS Degree. The CS degree is not there to teach someone how to program in Java/C/VB etc. The degree is there to provide a solid theoritical understanding and background in how computers work, how programmes work and an understanding of algorithms. A good way to teach this is be using a programme language.

I don't think I misunderstand. And I agree, learning the syntax of a programming language is straight forward but you don't have to have a degree to know the rest and you might have a degree and not know the rest.

amen wrote: »

A good CS student should hopefully be able to pick up any programming language with relative ease. The fundamentals are the same. For instance when Civil Engineers learn about bridge design they are taught about the forces in play, how to calculate the forces, loads etc.

They can then take this knowledge and build a bridge out of wood, concrete, steel etc. Similarly a CS Grad can take their CS knowledge and build you a system in C/Java/C# etc

Yeah, that's really just the same point again. I think it depends on what the student will be working on. In software as well as bridge building there is one (or few at least) architect but many doing the actual work who are equally skilled (in other ways).

amen wrote: »

I'm not sure you if you are joking or no but what is wrong with knowing ow DFDS & ER work ? How do you intend to model your system ?

I'm not joking! I have not seen DFD's used in a project since the 1980's... maybe early 90's. I used various Object Orientated modelling methodologies in the early-mid 90s and now would use UML.
If I was modelling a database it would depend on the database.. now more than ever it is not necessarily a relational database.

amen wrote: »

yeah but they had a degree in something which is the what the OP asked. Basically no degree = very hard to get a job

yes, but the point is. Can you practice law without a law degree? can you be an accountant [not a bookkeeper but sign off accounts] without an accounting degree? Can you practice medicine without a medical degree? No, but you can design, develop & deploy software. I degree is not a legal requirement.

And don't get me wrong, knowledge is a great thing. And, as with anything, having a degree would always make life easier when looking for work.
But if someone had a specific project with specific needs to complete and they have the option was between an industry certified developer (perhaps with some experience) and a CS graduate, albeit with knowledge of DFD & ER basics

... well I don't believe it is so clear cut.
And yes, maybe [big maybe] the CS graduate could build the software equivalent of a bridge but most developer roles have more in common with the brickies/carpenters/whatever.

Evil Phil · 22-04-2015 9:53am

The Corinthian wrote: »

No, a degree was always sought. It's just that between about 1996 and 2000 we had such an unprecedented boom in IT that the capacity to switch on and off a computer qualified you for a job. So it's not so much older developers, but those who would have entered the industry during those years will be less likely to have any degree, let alone a CS one.

Ha! My first job was in testing - and they hired me because I was using windows 95 which had been released a few months before the interview (installed of 24 floppy disks IIRC). They didn't have anybody else who had even seen it.

As far as the qualifications are concerned. Yes, a qualification will get you past the HR process and it seems like little else I guess. I have a MSc in Internet Systems - I don't get asked a lot about it in interviews but I use the knowledge gained during my studies every day. I would expect anybody with a formal qualification to do the same - and their ability to do that will come out in the interview.

However, as The Corinthian pointed out some academic courses are stale to say the least. I switched my course after 6 months for this reason, not all courses/universities are created equal after all.

Somebody asked about treehouse and code.org - I wouldn't consider them if interviewing somebody BUT they are good perks to get from an employer and something to consider when applying for a position.

The Corinthian · 22-04-2015 10:18am

Evil Phil wrote: »

Ha! My first job was in testing - and they hired me because I was using windows 95 which had been released a few months before the interview (installed of 24 floppy disks IIRC). They didn't have anybody else who had even seen it.

Ahh... that glorified GUI for Windows 3.11, better known as Windows 95. I installed it in the Summer of 1995, and I vaguely remember I had a CD. Floppies were for the little people...

Yes, a qualification will get you past the HR process and it seems like little else I guess.

The qualification, I agree, but the theory and fundamentals I do believe are valuable.

Evil Phil · 22-04-2015 12:22pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Floppies were for the little people...

:pac:

I didn't have access to a CD burner at the time. Not that I was making a copy of anything *cough*

amen · 22-04-2015 2:39pm

croo wrote: »

yes, but the point is. Can you practice law without a law degree? can you be an accountant [not a bookkeeper but sign off accounts] without an accounting degree? Can you practice medicine without a medical degree? No, but you can design, develop & deploy software. I degree is not a legal requirement.

But at one point in time anyone could practice as lawyer, doctor, engineer without formal qualifications and that lead to so many issues that society said nope, you have to be qualified.

In the case of an Accountant you don't need to have a degree but you need to pass your relevant professional bodies exams.

The Corinthian · 22-04-2015 2:50pm

amen wrote: »

But at one point in time anyone could practice as lawyer, doctor, engineer without formal qualifications and that lead to so many issues that society said nope, you have to be qualified.

I think increased competition and wage inflation were the principle issues...

06-05-2015 3:34pm

When people talk about github projects and you're working with something like Wordpress or Drupal, all your custom plugins/modules be a good part of a portfolio?
Along with the finished product in the cv?

can you get a job in development without degree

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