Residents at Athlone asylum seekers centre refusing to eat

EunanMac · 06-09-2014 1:43pm

K-9 wrote: »

That seems a huge blanket statement given the history of asylum seekers in Ireland which goes back to Jewish people arriving in Ireland in the 19th century. They seemed to integrate well, didn't stop a Catholic priest organising a pogrom in 1904!

Oh here we go, Catholics again . . . .

AlekSmart · 06-09-2014 2:58pm

K-9 wrote: »

That seems a huge blanket statement given the history of asylum seekers in Ireland which goes back to Jewish people arriving in Ireland in the 19th century. They seemed to integrate well, didn't stop a Catholic priest organising a pogrom in 1904!

There also seems to be a history of refugees going on hunger strike, as far back as the Hungarians fleeing from the failed revolution in 1956. We've also accepted Chilean, Vietnamese, Bosnian and Kosovan refugees at different times for obvious reasons, and I've yet to see any problems with integration there.

The main difference with the previous Refugee programmes was their realistic structure.

Ireland accepted those Countries refugees under controlled and properly funded and managed programmes.....and (in the main) It worked...and worked well.

I work with,and socialize with people from 3 of those schemes,who are now totally comfortable within "mainstream" Irish society.

They have not been required to forget or deny their past and the journey which brought them here,but,interestingly,Ireland is now home to them and their families,whereas their old haunts are for Holidays only!

When we discuss the acceptance of large numbers of asylum seekers,the Eastern European folk in particular are dead-set against it,vehemently so in some cases,as their experience is that organized criminal outfits have long ago taken control of this "market".

All of my work-mates are very happy with how the Irish State treated them,and particularly how it facilitated,in a controlled manner the reuniting of their families.

It is interesting that they see the liberalization policy as destructive in ethos rather than desirable.

Nodin · 07-09-2014 2:25am

AlekSmart wrote: »

The main difference with the previous Refugee programmes was their realistic structure.

Ireland accepted those Countries refugees under controlled and properly funded and managed programmes.....and (in the main) It worked...and worked well.

I work with,and socialize with people from 3 of those schemes,who are now totally comfortable within "mainstream" Irish society.

They have not been required to forget or deny their past and the journey which brought them here,but,interestingly,Ireland is now home to them and their families,whereas their old haunts are for Holidays only!

When we discuss the acceptance of large numbers of asylum seekers,the Eastern European folk in particular are dead-set against it,vehemently so in some cases,as their experience is that organized criminal outfits have long ago taken control of this "market".

All of my work-mates are very happy with how the Irish State treated them,and particularly how it facilitated,in a controlled manner the reuniting of their families.

It is interesting that they see the liberalization policy as destructive in ethos rather than desirable.

What policy is this?

AlekSmart · 07-09-2014 9:03pm

Nodin wrote: »

What policy is this?

Essentially,what some might call the open-door policy.

However the lads I speak of are realistic enough to recognize the limitations on how many Asymum/Refugee/Subsidiary/Leave to Remain etc applications we can sustainably accede to.

This viewpoint can,of course,be a result of becoming an integral part of the Taxpaying system,which can skew one's viewpoint somewhat.

Although,I must say when the Calais situation comes on telly News reports the general feeling appears to be....we're next up !

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ethnic-riots-in-calais-as-albanian-gangs-charge-african-migrants-for-access-to-port-area-9650338.html

Mind you,those Albanians sure have Capitalist Principles down to a T....

“The Albanian people smugglers lie to the African migrants and tell them that they can work in the UK which they describe as El Dorado.” Mr Larue told The Independent that the gangmasters were demanding between €2,000 to €3,000 from the migrants.

However,it appears the Irish Refugee Council may have the answer....

http://www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Roadmap-for-Asylum-Reform3.pdf

Nodin · 07-09-2014 9:15pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Essentially,what some might call the open-door policy.
...........

We do not have an "open door" policy.

AlekSmart wrote: »

This viewpoint can,of course,be a result of becoming an integral part of the Taxpaying system,which can skew one's viewpoint somewhat...........

Do please explain.

AlekSmart · 07-09-2014 11:35pm

Nodin wrote: »

We do not have an "open door" policy.

Hopefully we can maintain that so ?

Do please explain.

I'm sure somebody will explain in due course.....;)

Nodin · 08-09-2014 12:25am

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm sure somebody will explain in due course.....;)

You said there was an open door policy, and when that was pointed out to be false you start going on about "Hopefully we can maintain that so "?

You stated

This viewpoint can,of course,be a result of becoming an integral part of the
Taxpaying system,which can skew one's viewpoint somewhat

What do you mean by that, exactly?

jank · 08-09-2014 3:32am

Phoenix wrote: »

Although seems the government will finally look to review the direct provision system
http://www.thejournal.ie/direct-provision-system-review-1615462-Aug2014/
But considering all these well documented cases in the media one wonders does it tarnish Irelands reputation internationally with cases such as this

Eh, no. Most if not all other countries could not give a **** on what happens in regards this issue. Similar utterances have been said by the 'usual crowd' of people here in Australia when it comes to how Australia deals with refuges. Instead of using reason and logic which the latest Liberal policy of stopping the boats has destroyed, they use emotion.

jank · 08-09-2014 4:00am

On the topic at hand, does anyone have actual details of the grievances apart from generic statements like "long processing times", "Substandard food", "allowance too small".
Surely if the conditions are so bad, then there would be documented evidence of this. Malnutrition? Episodes of mental health issues, A wave of suicides, rat infested rooms etc.etc.etc

It seems this story is more media driven than anything else. A right to reside in a country should be seen as a privilege not a right. This is a common discussion in Australia where the housing of refuges is outsourced to neighboring countries in order to stop people profiting from human trafficking. It seems to have worked so far. Also, those who then do follow the rules, submit the paper work, do all that is required and then rightly pissed off when others come in and jump the queue.

I would be much more in favor of a 'conflict' refugee system where a block of places could be assigned to people displaced by war in say Syria or the Congo and where we could go over, look at the situation and then bring them over to be rehoused, given a visa, education and so on. Most people would have no issue with that at all. Obviously we could not take all 3 million Syrian refuges but say a few hundred places per year would be helpful. This was done with Bosnian refuges in 1994 which was seen as a success.

Instead we have a situation where people rock up to Ireland then say, 'I am a refugee, please help me'. Then all amounts of time and money is then spent on the process and needless to say this system is rife for abuse and discontent grows within the established populace and new immigrants and genuine refuges.

Regards outsourcing, well the Irish PS are not the most efficient bunch when it comes to other peoples money so it makes sense for the taxpayer to limit costs here if we can. It may not be PC but that's the way it is.

Nodin · 08-09-2014 6:07am

jank wrote: »

On the topic at hand, does anyone have actual details of the grievances apart from generic statements like "long processing times", "Substandard food", "allowance too small".
Surely if the conditions are so bad, then there would be documented evidence of this. Malnutrition? Episodes of mental health issues, A wave of suicides, rat infested rooms etc.etc.etc.

There is, documented over years.

http://www.ombudsman.gov.ie/en/News/Speeches-Articles/2013/Asylum-Seekers-Wrong.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/fears-for-young-asylum-seekers-125618.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/health/asylum-seekers-needs-not-met-165084.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/more-asylum-seekers-spending-longer-in-direct-provision-says-report-273824.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/women-asylum-seekers-forced-into-prostitution-284630.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/how-should-ireland-treat-asylum-seekers-1.1893848

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/asylum-seekers-transferred-with-10-minutes-notice-after-protest-1.1898659

GarIT · 08-09-2014 7:31am

I think if they are on hunger strike they have declared that we are worse than their original country so we should send them back. Asylum seekers should have no rights at all until they are approves, food and a roof is all they should get.

This might annoy some people but I'm going to say it anyway because it's how I feel. Asylum seekers may not have a right to be in this country so they should be imprisoned until their application is processed. There should be a list of countries that get automatic approval once that person has proven to be from that country. Other than that we need must faster approvals, but the people shouldn't be free to be in the public until they have been approved.

Gatling · 08-09-2014 7:51am

The refugees in athlone aren't on hunger strike , there refusing food supplied through the center instead they sourced food from an outside source .
Which it's self should be looked at ie how does aslyum seekers manage to organise and fund there own supplies and yet claiming they can't afford to live on €19 pw.

walshb · 08-09-2014 9:00am

I'm still waiting for some solid facts relating to this appalling standard of care. Refugees aren't happy with their food. Sourcing their own. Problem solved.

jank · 08-09-2014 9:14am

Nodin wrote: »

There is, documented over years.

http://www.ombudsman.gov.ie/en/News/Speeches-Articles/2013/Asylum-Seekers-Wrong.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/fears-for-young-asylum-seekers-125618.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/health/asylum-seekers-needs-not-met-165084.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/more-asylum-seekers-spending-longer-in-direct-provision-says-report-273824.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/women-asylum-seekers-forced-into-prostitution-284630.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/how-should-ireland-treat-asylum-seekers-1.1893848

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/asylum-seekers-transferred-with-10-minutes-notice-after-protest-1.1898659

Not one of those links actually answer any of my questions. The one bit of detail I got regarding accommodation conditions is that some of the showers were broken in one of the buildings... which means that there were other showers working in an other building.
Again, all very generic, very scant on details and very high on emotion. Personally I think most of those in direct provisioning are bored out of their trees and have nothing to do. As the saying goes "The Devil finds work for idle hands". If the process was speed-ed up then this topic would disappear.

oscarBravo · 08-09-2014 10:03am

GarIT wrote: »

Asylum seekers should have no rights at all...

Black people should have no rights at all.

Women should have no rights at all.

Jews should have no rights at all.

You're talking about people. You don't get to say that human beings should have no rights at all. That's not your call to make. They have intrinsic rights by the mere virtue of the fact that they were born human.

They should have no rights at all? Shame on you!

walshb · 08-09-2014 10:33am

They absolutely should have rights. They should be treated with respect and dignity and provided with materials for life. This is where it gets tricky. Subjectivity comes into it. Give a person an inch and he takes a yard mentality. I am hearing one side of this story. Are these refugees ungrateful, greedy and demanding something that isn't a right or a necessity?

jank · 08-09-2014 12:28pm

Of course refugees have rights, however, it seems that innate human rights are confused with the right to have a shower in the morning, paid for by the tax payer. This is when it all gets confused and muddled as everything and its dog then gets proclaimed by high heaven as human rights.

ZeroImpurities · 08-09-2014 12:30pm

I was going to go on hunger strike once.

walshb · 08-09-2014 2:36pm

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

I was going to go on hunger strike once.

You sound like the voice-over guy on Little Britain.

ZeroImpurities · 08-09-2014 2:37pm

walshb wrote: »

You sound like the voice-over guy on Little Britain.

I don't watch that.
But seriously, I was going to go on hunger strike once. Then I got hungry.

Nodin · 08-09-2014 3:15pm

jank wrote: »

Not one of those links actually answer any of my questions. The one bit of detail I got regarding accommodation conditions is that some of the showers were broken in one of the buildings... which means that there were other showers working in an other building.
Again, all very generic, very scant on details and very high on emotion. Personally I think most of those in direct provisioning are bored out of their trees and have nothing to do. As the saying goes "The Devil finds work for idle hands". If the process was speed-ed up then this topic would disappear.

I suspect that regardless of what I provide you'll come to the same conclusion, however -

http://www.nascireland.org/latest-news/asylum-system-a-ryan-report-waiting-to-happen/

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/asylum-centres-condemned-as-open-prisons-26437194.html

http://www.medicalindependent.ie/419/one_third_of_male_asylum_seekers_in_hostels_medicated

Nodin · 08-09-2014 3:16pm

jank wrote: »

Of course refugees have rights, however, it seems that innate human rights are confused with the right to have a shower in the morning, paid for by the tax payer. This is when it all gets confused and muddled as everything and its dog then gets proclaimed by high heaven as human rights.

You've a problem with basic hygiene?

punisher5112 · 08-09-2014 3:18pm

Nodin wrote: »

You've a problem with basic hygiene?

Plenty of room in the sea to wash...

You are extremely defensive thats not what the poster was saying.

But everything is at a price/cost to all tax payers.

Nodin · 08-09-2014 3:21pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Plenty of room in the sea to wash...

................

I have to say that's fairly vile and xenophobic in the extreme.

The poster has a problem with the provision of washing facilities. Whether this is on financial grounds or not really doesn't matter.

walshb · 08-09-2014 3:24pm

Still waiting on proof for this particular case. Still waiting on some official report or document that shows that Ireland is not meeting the 'required standards' for sheltering and feeding refugees in asylum centers.

Nodin · 08-09-2014 3:30pm

walshb wrote: »

Still waiting on proof for this particular case. Still waiting on some official report or document that shows that Ireland is not meeting the 'required standards' for sheltering and feeding refugees in asylum centers.

The UN any good?

"There is much for the Government to consider in the area of immigration and asylum. The Committee is concerned at the negative impact that the policy of direct provision has had on the welfare of asylum seekers who, “due to inordinate delay in the processing of their applications and the final outcomes of their appeals and reviews, as well as poor living conditions, can suffer health and psychological problems that in certain cases lead to serious mental illness”.
The Committee notes that the lapsed Immigration, Residence and Protection Bill and the fact that current legislation does not provide adequate protection for separated children and unaccompanied minors. It calls on the Government both to improve the existing draft legislation and to pass it into law. In particular, the State should improve the Immigration, Residence and Protection Bill to provide for the right of migrants to judicial review against administrative actions and to “ensure the right of migrant women in abusive relationships to legal protection by providing them with separate residence permits”.

http://enarireland.org/un-committee-issues-concluding-observations/

walshb · 08-09-2014 3:32pm

The UN commented on this particular protest?

Nodin · 08-09-2014 3:39pm

walshb wrote: »

The UN commented on this particular protest?

It's very hard to kick a ball at ever moving goalposts. Conditions which would lead to a protest have been outlined as pertaining to the system generally. You might show where this centre is somehow exempt from them.

walshb · 08-09-2014 3:44pm

Nodin wrote: »

It's very hard to kick a ball at ever moving goalposts. Conditions which would lead to a protest have been outlined as pertaining to the system generally. You might show where this centre is somehow exempt from them.

I know well that the system isn't perfect. Carlsberg don't do asylum centers. In relation to this protest I am waiting to hear more.

Gatling · 08-09-2014 3:59pm

The UN can't say we don't do enough for immigrant and housing them

We've social housing lists in some cases where non nationals make up 75% of housing lists in some areas .

It's not like there's mass discrimination seems by most report immigrant are quite happy and happy about access to services such as social welfare and social housing.

Aslyum seekers are treated alot better than our homeless people .
And you can bet some aslyum seeking families have more disposable income than some families on low incomes after taxes .bills
Rent /mortgages and other family related spending

Residents at Athlone asylum seekers centre refusing to eat

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