Now Ye're Talkin' To A Cactus & Succulent Enthusiast!

Dav · 17-04-2015 11:18am #1

A wha?

Well this was the first time I had to ask our AMA guest "what do I call you?" I'd like you all to meet our member pyxxel who's been growing cacti and other plants such as aloes and agaves for over 35 years.

So if you're wondering what a succulent is and why anyone'd want to grow a plant that can injure you, here's your chance

pyxxel · 17-04-2015 12:34pm

Spring has sprung, time to talk plants eh? Just to clarify what we're talking about:

This is a typical cactus...
https://scontent-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10252166_10152418793398694_4423790634443004636_n.jpg?oh=3487e2283beaba6f763da5347e2816c3&oe=55AC2790

...and these are typical other succulents:
http://img1.etsystatic.com/003/0/6754193/il_fullxfull.356158665_9sg1.jpg%3Fref%3Dl2

Of course there are a myriad of other forms, shapes, colours, sizes etc., but this may give you an idea. By definition, a succulent plant stores water/moisture in its "fleshy" plant parts, either the leaves or the stem. Practically all cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are cacti

miamee · 17-04-2015 2:52pm

Is aloe vera a type of succulent? It looks like the plants in the second image there.

Do you have cactuses/cactii (?!) all over your house or are they confined to the garden? Most people seem to have the little ones indoors rather than outdoors but the ones you see pictures of in say the desert look pretty magnificent. I doubt they'd thrive in the Irish climate though, or would they?

Dozen Wicked Words · 17-04-2015 3:38pm

What's a good "starter" cactus for kids to start growing?

pyxxel · 17-04-2015 4:09pm

I would say any of the rosette-type succulents like Echeveria, Aloe, Gasteria or Crassula are very easy-going and withstand a lot of neglect. If you google these you find a wide choice. The benefit is also that they don't have spines, so they are also great for smaller children, like 4 and up. They usually tolerate normal potting compost too and don't need special cactus compost mix.

The main thing is that like most plants, they need as much light as possible, so a sunny window sill is best. I would recommend planting a few together into a small bowl, they grow much better, look nicer and offer variety that way!

If the kid likes a "prickly" plant (most boys go for them!), I would recommend Gymnocalycium, Notocactus and Parodia species. They flower when young and are not too fussy. To keep the shape natural and induce flowering though it's usually best to give the plants a rest during winter, where you water little or not at all, and if possible keep them in a cooler environment (i.e. not right above a radiator). The still need lots of light though, so a bright window sill is the least. Conservatories are much better!

BTW don't be tempted to get one of those poor plants with Mexican hats and silly eyes stuck onto them, because pricking a soft-tissue plant with metal needles is a sure-fire way of getting infections into the plant. I've also seen succulents in garden centres spray-painted with red or blue glitter, you can imagine this ain't good for the plant and can lead to disease and death of the plant. People who like those should get plastic flowers!

pyxxel · 17-04-2015 4:26pm

miamee wrote: »

Is aloe vera a type of succulent? It looks like the plants in the second image there.

Do you have cactuses/cactii (?!) all over your house or are they confined to the garden? Most people seem to have the little ones indoors rather than outdoors but the ones you see pictures of in say the desert look pretty magnificent. I doubt they'd thrive in the Irish climate though, or would they?

Aloe vera is indeed a succulent, it's on of about 500 Aloe species!

I'm lucky to have a south-facing back garden, and we built a conservatory a few years ago. Most of my plants are there for the entire year. Some of them grow quite fast, so eventually I'll have to think of giving them away to the Botanic Gardens or some friends with large greenhouses! As you mention, some cacti and other succulents grow quite large, eventually to tree size, so there's an issue...

Here's an image of some of my plants, not a great shot but it shows some of the taller plants: https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10257083_10152466454088694_9081679924280760535_n.jpg?oh=22a44fc4fda6fe2393922c3196034b72&oe=55E005FF&__gda__=1440811136_cd871eed354772fb0d5bed50b03b5da5
...incidentally, it shows a smaller orange-flowering cactus in the back. That is my oldest specimen, I have it for at least 35 years, it never grows much taller but flowers every summer, all summer long! A real trooper.

You are right, the Irish weather is not suitable for most succulents or cacti. It wouldn't be the winter temperatures that kills them, but rather the humidity. Many cactus species grow at high altitudes in Mexico or the Andes and can withstand severe frost, but not along with much moisture.

That said, there are a lot of native European varieties of succulents (not cacti), like Sedum and Sempervivum, often sold as rockery plants in nurseries. They do well in Irish climate, but do better if they have good drainage. Look at the Burren with its many native succulent species - great drainage!

orthsquel · 17-04-2015 6:54pm

I may not know the names, but I certainly recognise all the ones you've named and in photos from my mother's window sills! The thrill I get out of them myself though are the flowers, very beautiful and that's something I really like about them in general.

I'd like to invest in some at some point, from either cuttings (is that possible for all cactus and succulent, or just some?) or bought from a garden centre.... but how do I tell a healthy cactus or succulent from an unhealthy one (aside from the type with the hat or glitter) ? Are supermarket ones any good or am I better off sticking with a garden centre?

And some expertise: In the past my mother has given me cuttings of a type of Aloe Vera that I can only describe as with a big stem and clumps of "leaf" (for lack of a better word) raising upwards... and they go fine, grow tall and for whatever reason they seem to sort of fall over and start going brown at the base upwards and it seems to dry out even with and without watering - what would be the cause and what's the best thing to do when that happens?

artanevilla · 17-04-2015 11:41pm

Are you in the 'cacti' or 'catuses' school of thought?

pyxxel · 18-04-2015 2:22pm

orthsquel wrote: »

I may not know the names, but I certainly recognise all the ones you've named and in photos from my mother's window sills! The thrill I get out of them myself though are the flowers, very beautiful and that's something I really like about them in general.

Kudos to your mum for getting her plants to flower! Yes apart from the sometimes strange and fascinating spination and colouring of the plants themselves, I do love many cacti for their beautiful flowers, some of which can get larger than the cactus itself! Check out this little beaut, where the two heads are no larger than 1/2 an inch: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10015016_10152382756593694_1222769457_n.jpg?oh=ed48fe4631230c3c66e6fb734d0b9192&oe=559D0B02&__gda__=1440974881_1d174637861c3e21bf017f8ab675fd02 ...or this night-flowering Echinopsis in full bloom: https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11174905_10153343560493694_96930699122777478_n.jpg?oh=ee63ab36c0dd6f786cf55f5079d63572&oe=5598683F ...these flowers open around 8pm and stay open for about 20 hours before wilting away!

orthsquel wrote: »

I'd like to invest in some at some point, from either cuttings (is that possible for all cactus and succulent, or just some?) or bought from a garden centre.... but how do I tell a healthy cactus or succulent from an unhealthy one (aside from the type with the hat or glitter) ? Are supermarket ones any good or am I better off sticking with a garden centre?

Most garden centre and supermarket cacti in Ireland come from large Dutch nurseries. Usually they are well-grown when they arrive, but then suffer neglect when on sale here! Dutch plants are usually grown in sterile peat and fed with specialist fertilisers to get them ready to market.

Once the plants are in our homes their requirements change. I have bought many of my plants from such sources, but the first thing I do is repot them into a cactus soil mix (I mix my own because it's cheaper - 50% John Innis No.1 potting compost, 20% grit, 15% sand, 15% vermiculite or perlite - not measured exactly!). When repotting I get as much of the original soil off, then let the roots dry for a few days or a week, then pot into moist (not wet) compost.

BTW some of my best plants are from a Lidl special! But one of our members in the Dublin & District Cactus & Succulent Society (YES there is such a thing!) is bringing in plants grown by specialist nurseries in the UK to sell on. They are high quality and you find many species you would not normally get! I don't know what the policies are on this board so I won't advertise him directly yet, but can give his address (in Saggart) on request. Oh and I'd have tons of spare plants and cuttings to give away! I do that all the time.

When looking at plants in garden centres, take care that lot of times the labels are mixed up or lost as most staff don't want to go near the prickly plants, and don't know enough about them. Many cacti can get infested with woolly aphids (mealy bug) so do look out for these in the apex or around the plant base. Other than that, check for black spots around the plant base. This indicates rot and often enough such a plant is doomed and will die within a week or so!

Cuttings are very possible with almost all cacti and succulents, just make sure to let the juicy surface of the cut dry off and callous over for a week or two. Then place it into a sandy, moist soil mix and wait! It can take several months for roots to develop (sometimes a year or two!), and don't be tempted to check every week as that disturbs the process! I would keep a cutting away from the sunniest, hottest spot, as it puts the plant under stress while it has no way of replenishing lost moisture.

orthsquel wrote: »

And some expertise: In the past my mother has given me cuttings of a type of Aloe Vera that I can only describe as with a big stem and clumps of "leaf" (for lack of a better word) raising upwards... and they go fine, grow tall and for whatever reason they seem to sort of fall over and start going brown at the base upwards and it seems to dry out even with and without watering - what would be the cause and what's the best thing to do when that happens?

Can you describe the plant a little more? What shape are the leaves, are they rounded or pointy? What colour are they (other than "green"!), are they smooth or do they have bumps, pits, grooves, hairs etc.?

From what you describe it sounds like they are rotting from the base. If they are kept relatively dry and they still rot, it might be other factors, like lack of light making the plant grow elongated and stretched, or cold drafts. Some stems can grow very tall and then keel over under their own weight, putting the point where it bends under stress or damage it, which can invite fungus spores to move in and cause rotting. Have you tried staking the stems to keep them upright? Would you have a picture perhaps?

pyxxel · 18-04-2015 2:23pm

artanevilla wrote: »

Are you in the 'cacti' or 'catuses' school of thought?

I don't really mind any more, but as a trained linguist I would stick with the latin ending, cacti!

18-04-2015 2:31pm

Thanks for the hint on children - I was wondering what to start growing this summer with my daughter (4.5) that would be different to the plants I did before (I tended to go for the ones that bloom in seconds before your eyes so she could have the wonder of watching that). The cactus seems like a good idea. I will follow up on what you wrote here and anything else.

Was also going to turn my hand to - probably out of your purview - repeating an attempt to grow a venus fly trap. Do not know why I failed before as I did everything I was told by the supplier and various websites - right down to distilled water. And it thrived for some time - then just - didn't. And remarkably quick was the failure once it started. Oh well. One more try

pyxxel · 18-04-2015 2:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Was also going to turn my hand to - probably out of your purview - repeating an attempt to grow a venus fly trap. Do not know why I failed before as I did everything I was told by the supplier and various websites - right down to distilled water. And it thrived for some time - then just - didn't. And remarkably quick was the failure once it started. Oh well. One more try

Yeah I tried that myself once a long time ago, with similar results. Mind you plants don't live forever and sometimes just die of "natural causes"! Not every little weed can be a 1000-year-old tree! (Some large cacti are thought to be of similar age too, btw)

18-04-2015 2:42pm

I remember in some tropical and botanical gardens - in germany and spain - they had "shaped" cacti. Obviously meticulously influenced to grow into big shapes (hearts - intertwined back on themselves - etc etc) and even up and around polls and walls like you might do with ivy. They also seemed to grow remarkably large.

I have in the garden a kind of covered area - good strong bright wood - covering part of an outdoor jacuzzi thing with a bench area for changing or undressing - and a small cocktail bar thing. Considering growing ivy up the legs of it - but wondering is there something more - eccentric - I could do instead

Then again cocktails - nudity - and skinny dipping might not be a good combination with multiple sharp pointy things

Eeden · 19-04-2015 1:26am

pyxxel wrote: »

I don't really mind any more, but as a trained linguist I would stick with the latin ending, cacti!

But the word has entered the English language now, so shouldn't we just Englishis(z)e the plural? Like we do for words like Stadium, Forum, Octopus (a Greek word, so Octopi is not correct...)

Sorry! As a non-green thumbed person, I can't comment on the actual plants ... they'd gang up on me and kill me!

thelad95 · 19-04-2015 1:28am

Should Jeremy Clarkson have been sacked?

sunbeam · 19-04-2015 2:59am

What is the longest you have left any of your plants without watering?

Paulownia · 19-04-2015 3:12am

There is a wonderful cacti garden in Monaco which any cactus but should visit. I have a small collection in my holiday home because they do not need to be watered incessantly to survive but the ones we have at home that get watered regularly do much better,
When I travel I often bring back a tiny cutting from a cactus or succulent as a living souvenir of my trip.
Many succulent plants can be propagated from a single leaf and I often give these to children to encourage them to begin a collection.

pyxxel · 19-04-2015 2:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I remember in some tropical and botanical gardens - in germany and spain - they had "shaped" cacti. Obviously meticulously influenced to grow into big shapes (hearts - intertwined back on themselves - etc etc) and even up and around polls and walls like you might do with ivy. They also seemed to grow remarkably large.

I have in the garden a kind of covered area - good strong bright wood - covering part of an outdoor jacuzzi thing with a bench area for changing or undressing - and a small cocktail bar thing. Considering growing ivy up the legs of it - but wondering is there something more - eccentric - I could do instead

Then again cocktails - nudity - and skinny dipping might not be a good combination with multiple sharp pointy things

Heh well that's probably not a good idea all right! Never mind the decribed dangers to party revellers, the Irish climate would not bode well for most cacti and succulents

I'd be curious what kind of plants you had seen. There are tropical cactus species that cling to trees and climb up like this, they grow holding roots above ground to anchor themselves. Maybe that's what you saw? https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/50/143879024_80c6ac6972.jpg I have one such plant and don't like it much, it grows quite vividly but isn't really pretty! Plus, its anchor roots took hold of the wall side of the window and it wasn't easy to pry it off :eek:

pyxxel · 19-04-2015 2:29pm

Eeden wrote: »

But the word has entered the English language now, so shouldn't we just Englishis(z)e the plural? Like we do for words like Stadium, Forum, Octopus (a Greek word, so Octopi is not correct...)

Sorry! As a non-green thumbed person, I can't comment on the actual plants ... they'd gang up on me and kill me!

Living languages change permanently, so whatever rocks your boat... as for the plants killing you, there are no carnivorous succulents so your life would not be in danger - you'd just suffer horrifically...

kupus · 19-04-2015 2:35pm

I have aloe vera here....Is it possible to make natural aloe vera juice from it....
I can peel off the green layer and blend the jelly substance inside and make it like that... GOod or bad idea?

pyxxel · 19-04-2015 2:43pm

sunbeam wrote: »

What is the longest you have left any of your plants without watering?

Great question. I usually give my plants a dryer resting period during the winter months. I'd divide the answer into two:

1. Plants from arid regions (deserts, scrub lands, dry mountain slopes & highlands) - I fade out watering those usually during October. They are left completely dry until March, and in April I start waking them up with small doses of water every weekend or 2nd weekend, depending on outside temperature and levels of sunshine. These type of plants reside in the conservatory almost the entire year.

2. Plants from more humid regions - subtropical and tropical, like grasslands and rain forests. Those succulents and cacti typically come from the likes of Florida/Caribbean/Middle America, down to Brasil, and over in Africa and South-East Asia from rain forests. They don't tolerate very cold temperatures as much (like mild frosts) so they generally go into the house, and they get small doses of water every 2-3 weeks.

To determine what plants fall into what category, my friend Lyn has a great video on Youtube: https://youtu.be/4Dlbd9e6iIk

Even during the summer months, I generally only water every 2nd week (or when I'm lazy, it goes into week 3!). It's entirely possible to go on a 2 or 3 week holiday and come back to healthy, thriving plants, with new flowers! A few years ago we went on a 7-week around-the-world trip during November & December and the plants were just fine.

That's really the cool thing about succulents - they are well-equipped to handle draughts and will happily suffer a little neglect - one of the main reasons I do so well with them! :pac:

pyxxel · 19-04-2015 2:50pm

Paulownia wrote: »

There is a wonderful cacti garden in Monaco which any cactus but should visit. I have a small collection in my holiday home because they do not need to be watered incessantly to survive but the ones we have at home that get watered regularly do much better,
When I travel I often bring back a tiny cutting from a cactus or succulent as a living souvenir of my trip.
Many succulent plants can be propagated from a single leaf and I often give these to children to encourage them to begin a collection.

Yep, I fully agree. Those leaf cuttings are fab for kids, almost like magic! The main thing is that cuttings and leaves have dried off a few days before they're put into soil, so they don't rot.

For how long do you leave the plants in the holiday home dry? Some species, like the "living stones" Lithops etc., are much more geared towards long periods of absolute dryness, and they cope well with 2-3 months of watering during their flowering period in late autumn, while they should be left bone-dry for the other 9-10 months!

I've seen pictures of the gardens in Monaco, it's a great location all right. Never been there myself, it's on the list!

pyxxel · 19-04-2015 4:11pm

One more link about propagating succulents - again a nice video by our cactus group member Lyn: https://youtu.be/g9q0uQ61zoM

pyxxel · 19-04-2015 4:17pm

kupus wrote: »

I have aloe vera here....Is it possible to make natural aloe vera juice from it....
I can peel off the green layer and blend the jelly substance inside and make it like that... GOod or bad idea?

Sorry I don't really have any experience with that - I could google it but then so could you! Anyone else have some ideas or tips?

BTW many cacti and succulents contain potent substances for medical and, shall we say, "recreational" applications... honorary mention goes to the famous Peyote cactus (Lophophora williamsii) which has been known for centuries by Mexican Indian tribes for their psychoactive alkaloids, i.e. drug use. Likewise I have no personal experience with it but it's so widely known that the plant is illegal to grow in the US!

orthsquel · 19-04-2015 6:15pm

Excellent answers and information! Those flowers are incredibly beautiful.

That particular cactus was from a few years ago, and no photos of it and tried quick googling for the right image but a bit short of time at the moment. But it was triangular green leaves with bumps akin to a standard pic of an aloe vera but in a long stem from what I can remember. I suspect that what you said in your answer that any of that was possible

I won't be investing right away (short of space) but all that information is fantastic and certainly will be taking better care in the future.

Over the years in offices I've seen people often have real cacti on their desks or on top of or beside computer hard drives - is that sort of environment at all healthy for them?

pyxxel · 20-04-2015 1:38pm

orthsquel wrote: »

That particular cactus was from a few years ago, and no photos of it and tried quick googling for the right image but a bit short of time at the moment. But it was triangular green leaves with bumps akin to a standard pic of an aloe vera but in a long stem from what I can remember. I suspect that what you said in your answer that any of that was possible I won't be investing right away (short of space) but all that information is fantastic and certainly will be taking better care in the future.

Some Aloes grow upright with the rosettes ending up on a stem when the older leaves dry and fall off, so it does sound like one of the many species of Aloe! Most plants in their natural habitat are constantly pruned naturally by grazing animals, windbreak and other factors, so sometimes I think we let our houseplants grow too tall and they haven't got the natural ability to support their own weight! I have some succulents that absolutely need to get staked, I don't think they ever stand 6 feet tall in their habitat :P

pyxxel · 20-04-2015 1:51pm

orthsquel wrote: »

Over the years in offices I've seen people often have real cacti on their desks or on top of or beside computer hard drives - is that sort of environment at all healthy for them?

Short answer: NO!

Most office desks are far to dark for any plants, let alone desert plants that are adapted to high light levels. I've met people keeping a cactus on their desk and telling me "yeah it's doing ok here, had it for years and it's fine" and when I take a closer look I can show them they have a long-dead, hollow, spiny husk sitting in a pot! They then tell me they have never watered it because "cacti don't need water"

Many cacti are very resilient and will actually stay alive for many months even when kept in darkness, only to get back to growing when the situation improves again - think landslides in arid mountains, or mud washing over them in semi-dry river valleys. This fact doesn't mean they will survive forever such environments. I keep telling people if they want something growing on their dark desks to try mushrooms! :P Some plants from dark, dank rain forest floors can do well in offices, but they too need at least some light for photosynthesis.

Bottom line: ALL plants need light and water to live. Desert plants need more of the one and less of the other...

Day Lewin · 20-04-2015 2:00pm

For potting on cactus and succulents in pots...
I've got quite a few and they do ok: but I've begun to lose faith in boughten compost. It seems to stay damp and soggy for too long, and then shrinks. Lately I have begun to use a batch of soil from my garden that contains a good part of clayey subsoil, plus a bit of my garden compost (home-made in bins)
This seems to work beautifully - mineral-rich, fibrous and strong: but all the books seem to warn against using common garden soil. [Its full of pests and diseases! they claim]
What is your opinion //what potting mixture would you recommend?

pyxxel · 20-04-2015 4:37pm

katemarch wrote: »

For potting on cactus and succulents in pots...
I've got quite a few and they do ok: but I've begun to lose faith in boughten compost. It seems to stay damp and soggy for too long, and then shrinks. Lately I have begun to use a batch of soil from my garden that contains a good part of clayey subsoil, plus a bit of my garden compost (home-made in bins)
This seems to work beautifully - mineral-rich, fibrous and strong: but all the books seem to warn against using common garden soil. [Its full of pests and diseases! they claim]
What is your opinion //what potting mixture would you recommend?

I've done that once myself, I used the very same clay subsoil you're talking about - and I had quite good results too! What I liked about it is that the clay holds water pretty well and sort of cakes together when drying, giving the plants a very good hold in pots and bowls. You can even compact it a little, simulating the heavy caked soil of arid, dry regions.

The warnings are correct, there are pests and fungi present in garden soil - imagine what a few snails can do to the soft tissue of your succulents! They can wreak havoc in a very short time. Commercial compost from garden centres is usually treated and free of pests, germs and spores, but some mixes also contain added fertilizer and too much Nitrogen (N) can boost growth too much. What you can do is put the garden soil in the oven at low setting (I dunno, 100°C?) for half an hour or longer, which should kill off any unwanted stowaways and also kill weed seeds. The soil will lose most of its moisture too so you need to moisten it again before planting.

I always mix my own cactus compost, and would recommend some sand, perlite or vermiculite (the latter looks better) and grit. I don't really measure the proportions, but test it by pressing the compost together in my fist - if it falls apart easily after pressing, it's right for me!

If you have a pH tester (I don't!) you can even check the acidity of the soil. Most cacti and succulents like a slightly acidic soil, pH 5 or 6 is great.

I also use some grit or stones as top dressing in pots and bowls. It looks neater, helps keeping the compost moist for longer and drains excess moisture from the more delicate root crown (i.e. where the root comes out of the plant body).

Day Lewin · 20-04-2015 4:50pm

Very clear and helpful - thank you!

shruikan2553 · 20-04-2015 6:20pm

When watering do you pour the water in the pot like other plants or do you spray them? I've heard spraying is done so that the water collects on the spines and gradually goes to the roots but I'm not sure it's necessary or if most of the water would evaporate before it gets to the roots anyway.

pyxxel · 20-04-2015 9:38pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

When watering do you pour the water in the pot like other plants or do you spray them? I've heard spraying is done so that the water collects on the spines and gradually goes to the roots but I'm not sure it's necessary or if most of the water would evaporate before it gets to the roots anyway.

I've heard a few times that some cacti can absorb moisture through their spines (by electrolytic processes IIRC). There is certainly some truth in there for the specialised species of the Atacama desert in northern Chile, which gets close to zero precipitation but can support its fauna from coastal fogs rolling inland. Check out this great photo site! http://www.atacamaphoto.com/newsite/index.php/desert-flora/desert-cacti

I personally don't spray the plants much but I know more than a few growers that swear by it in early spring, to "wake them up". When I water I often run the water over the plant bodies though, when I know the weather will stay sunny for a day or two. I also make sure to use tepid/lukewarm water because I feel it's better for the plants and roots - and not just for my succulents!

It's true that the water will evaporate more quickly this way, and evaporation cools down surfaces as we know, so that needs to be taken into consideration. The best time for watering cacti and succulents is early morning but I rarely get to that!

BTW I do soak my plants quite a bit in summer, so much so that it comes out the bottom of the pots and stays in the coaster for a day or so (well-draining soil is essential!). I then let the compost dry out over the next 2 weeks before the next soaking - this seems to mimic natural precipitation best I think!

pyxxel · 21-04-2015 2:59pm

Oh I nearly forgot, when you leave water droplets on plants (succulents or others) they can act as little lenses in direct sunlight, and burn the plant's outer skin (epidermis) this way. So I wouldn't spray plants in direct sunshine, make sure the droplets can evaporate before sunlight hits them!

Alun · 22-04-2015 1:22pm

I have a number of standard 'money plants' Crassula Ovata, and every year in spring they go through a phase of dropping their leaves when I start watering them. Is this normal? Or am I doing something wrong like over- or under watering. I'm not very methodical with my watering, even though I know it's only supposed to be once every 2 weeks or so in summer, and tend to do it when I think about it which is probably too often. Otherwise they're pretty healthy and flower every year.

Also should I be feeding them, and my other succulents and cactuses, and if so with what?

Zebrano · 22-04-2015 10:28pm

Untitled by zebrano1812, on Flickr

by zebrano1812, on Flickr

What is this called and is there any way i can stop the rot that is starting on one of the shoots

pyxxel · 23-04-2015 12:15am

Alun wrote: »

I have a number of standard 'money plants' Crassula Ovata, and every year in spring they go through a phase of dropping their leaves when I start watering them. Is this normal? Or am I doing something wrong like over- or under watering. I'm not very methodical with my watering, even though I know it's only supposed to be once every 2 weeks or so in summer, and tend to do it when I think about it which is probably too often. Otherwise they're pretty healthy and flower every year.

Also should I be feeding them, and my other succulents and cactuses, and if so with what?

Hey there, that Crassula is one of the easiest to grow, but not so easy to get to flower, so you're doing something right! How many of the leaves are we talking about, like only a few, or 50%, or nearly all of them? Are you changing location for them around that time, like from the room to a balcony or such? Changes in wind and light can be a major factor. Maybe the plant is too dry during the winter months, they do like a little watering even then to tide them over.

Personally, if the plant doesn't drop MOST of its leaves, I would not worry about it. Some leaf drop is normal with that plant. The ones I have are moved out to the garden as soon as there's no danger of frost any more, and the wind and direct sun keeps them more compact and sturdy, almost like those stubby trees up on a mountain! If the plants get too straggy and elongated the stems can get very soft and bend, and it can get unsightly. When that happens I often cut it back quite a lot and let it sprout from the stems again - just what would happen in the wild!

As regards feeding, some garden centres offer specialised cactus fertiliser. The main point is to look for the N-P-K numbers - Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium. Due to their slower growth ratios compared to leafy plants, cacti and succulents require less Nitrogen - too much of it and the plants can swell up too much and sometimes even rip open, and they become bloated but also weaker overall. Phosphorus and Potassium aid flower development and root growth. So - normally I look for an NPK rating of say 5-10-10 or similar.

As I have a lot of plants to water, I use a powder fertiliser to mix in - this one: http://www.vitax.co.uk/home-garden/vitax-cacti-feed/ - and I must say I had super results! I find liquid fertiliser too expensive by comparison. I feed maybe from May until September at every other watering. Plants in fresh soil don't really need any feed in the first year or two though, as the soil carries enough nutrients as it is.

If your local garden centre doesn't stock the powder I use, these online shops have it:
http://www.horkans.ie/p/vitax-cacti-feed-200g/187026223
http://plantlife.ie/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=175

Hope that helps!

pyxxel · 23-04-2015 12:32am

Zebrano wrote: »

What is this called and is there any way i can stop the rot that is starting on one of the shoots

I'm pretty sure this is Aloe variegata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloe_variegata. If you mean those light-brown lower leaves when you say shoots, this is not rot but rather a natural process - as it mentions in the Wikipedia article, "Depending on trauma, space, water availability or even old age, outer leaves will die off, turning golden brown and shriveling away." So once the leaf is dried out pretty much you can actually pull it off (you might need a good bit of force to do that!).

Many such rosette-type plants like Agaves, Aloes, Aeoniums, Echeverias etc. shed their oldest, lower leaves like that, sometimes leaving a visible stem underneath. Your plant looks very healthy to me, it seems to be getting enough water and sun where you have it

Some good care tips are here: http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/ALOE/Aloe_variegata/Aloe_variegata/Aloe_variegata.htm

Zebrano · 23-04-2015 7:52am

pyxxel wrote: »

I'm pretty sure this is Aloe variegata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloe_variegata. If you mean those light-brown lower leaves when you say shoots, this is not rot but rather a natural process - as it mentions in the Wikipedia article, "Depending on trauma, space, water availability or even old age, outer leaves will die off, turning golden brown and shriveling away." So once the leaf is dried out pretty much you can actually pull it off (you might need a good bit of force to do that!).

Many such rosette-type plants like Agaves, Aloes, Aeoniums, Echeverias etc. shed their oldest, lower leaves like that, sometimes leaving a visible stem underneath. Your plant looks very healthy to me, it seems to be getting enough water and sun where you have it

Some good care tips are here: http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/ALOE/Aloe_variegata/Aloe_variegata/Aloe_variegata.htm

Thanks yes thats it have been wondering this for a long time.
I had a number of these that were my grandads plants and then i got some cacti and they were all thriving in my kitchen which gets morning sun but not much else. But then after about 5 or 7 years they ann started rotting. This is the only surviving one thats only about 3 years old maybe less that i gave to my mother. So its not in my house.

Any ideas where i could get some of these in north dublin.

Alun · 23-04-2015 9:37am

pyxxel wrote: »

Hey there, that Crassula is one of the easiest to grow, but not so easy to get to flower, so you're doing something right! How many of the leaves are we talking about, like only a few, or 50%, or nearly all of them? Are you changing location for them around that time, like from the room to a balcony or such? Changes in wind and light can be a major factor. Maybe the plant is too dry during the winter months, they do like a little watering even then to tide them over.

It's only a few really, 10% at most, so it's good to hear that's normal. It's the older leaves, i.e. the ones closest to the main plant body that die off, so I do get some quite straggly stems on them which looks a bit unsightly. New leaves do grow back on the stems where the old ones dropped off in some places though.

They stay in the same place all year round, in a south facing conservatory, but when the weather is more clement, the conservatory door and the door into the house remain open during the day to let the cats wander in and out as they want, so they get a bit of a draught and don't really get too hot.

Personally, if the plant doesn't drop MOST of its leaves, I would not worry about it. Some leaf drop is normal with that plant. The ones I have are moved out to the garden as soon as there's no danger of frost any more, and the wind and direct sun keeps them more compact and sturdy, almost like those stubby trees up on a mountain! If the plants get too straggy and elongated the stems can get very soft and bend, and it can get unsightly. When that happens I often cut it back quite a lot and let it sprout from the stems again - just what would happen in the wild!

I've never thought of putting them outside to be honest, and as we're south facing it is a bit of sun trap so I might try that. Also good to know that I can prune them, I hadn't thought of that either, but when stems break off naturally it seems to recover so I guess that's the same.

As regards feeding, some garden centres offer specialised cactus fertiliser. The main point is to look for the N-P-K numbers - Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium. Due to their slower growth ratios compared to leafy plants, cacti and succulents require less Nitrogen - too much of it and the plants can swell up too much and sometimes even rip open, and they become bloated but also weaker overall. Phosphorus and Potassium aid flower development and root growth. So - normally I look for an NPK rating of say 5-10-10 or similar.

As I have a lot of plants to water, I use a powder fertiliser to mix in - this one: http://www.vitax.co.uk/home-garden/vitax-cacti-feed/ - and I must say I had super results! I find liquid fertiliser too expensive by comparison. I feed maybe from May until September at every other watering. Plants in fresh soil don't really need any feed in the first year or two though, as the soil carries enough nutrients as it is.

If your local garden centre doesn't stock the powder I use, these online shops have it:
http://www.horkans.ie/p/vitax-cacti-feed-200g/187026223
http://plantlife.ie/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=175

Hope that helps!

That's great information, thanks! I have other succulents and cacti but they're all doing fine, and all flower regularly, it's only the crassula that I'm having problems with.

One more thing regarding them, sometimes some of the leaves get a bit of a red tinge to them, is that a problem?

pyxxel · 24-04-2015 12:24pm

Zebrano wrote: »

I had a number of these that were my grandads plants and then i got some cacti and they were all thriving in my kitchen which gets morning sun but not much else. But then after about 5 or 7 years they ann started rotting. This is the only surviving one thats only about 3 years old maybe less that i gave to my mother. So its not in my house.

Any ideas where i could get some of these in north dublin.

When you have one plant rotting, other plants close by can catch some spores too and if they have some wound (maybe through blackfly larvae in the soil, which feed on roots, or similar pests) the rot can spread at an astonishing rate. To prevent it you need to have them in a well-draining compost (sand/grit mixed in), keep them dryer in winter, and keep them away from cold drafts. Some systemic pesticide (e.g. Provado) can control soil-based pests better than sprays. Inspect your plants closely from time to time to see if there's any unwanted lodgers about! Even slugs can get in from the garden and while their nibbling often heals off, spores might get in and cause rot.

The DDCSS (Dublin & District Cactus & Succulent Society) meets regularly in the Botanic Gardens in Glasnevin. The next meeting is scheduled for 11. June (sadly no May meeting) at 6:30pm and a lot of members bring free plants to swap - I do every time! So that's a good way to get started. Many garden centres have a selection of cacti & succulents on offer, but as I said before, don't buy the ones with pinned-on eyes and sombreros, or those with sprayed-on glitter, because that's very bad for the plants! For identification of diseases and pests, check out this handy guide: http://cactiguide.com/cactipests/

I don't know any garden centres in North Dublin, I found very good plants in Johnstown Garden Centre on the Naas road - http://www.johnstowngardencentre.ie/

When you buy a plant from a garden centre, make sure to unpot it soon after, brush most of the soil off the roots (I use an old toothbrush) and let the roots dry off for a week, then repot into fresh compost mixed with grit and sand - the soil should remain loose when you squeeze it and should drain well. This helps the plants get a good start in a new location! MAke sure they get lots of sunlight and water well during summer, especially when it's sunny out, but make sure the soil dries off almost entirely before watering again. Good luck!

thelad95 · 24-04-2015 12:29pm

thelad95 wrote: »

Should Jeremy Clarkson have been sacked?

....

pyxxel · 24-04-2015 12:40pm

Alun wrote: »

It's only a few really, 10% at most, so it's good to hear that's normal. It's the older leaves, i.e. the ones closest to the main plant body that die off, so I do get some quite straggly stems on them which looks a bit unsightly. New leaves do grow back on the stems where the old ones dropped off in some places though.

Well that rate of leaf drop is absolutely normal. As mentioned, when stems get too straggly just take cuttings! They can be re-rooted easily provided the cut surface had time to dry and form a callus.

Alun wrote: »

They stay in the same place all year round, in a south facing conservatory, but when the weather is more clement, the conservatory door and the door into the house remain open during the day to let the cats wander in and out as they want, so they get a bit of a draught and don't really get too hot.

Sounds like the perfect location to me and pretty much what I have! Air flow is good in hot weather - I once had my conservatory windows shut for a day in September when it turned out to be the hottest day of the year with 27° outside, and I wasn't home. The heat must have been like an oven and I ended up with a good bit of scarring on many plants!

Alun wrote: »

I've never thought of putting them outside to be honest, and as we're south facing it is a bit of sun trap so I might try that. Also good to know that I can prune them, I hadn't thought of that either, but when stems break off naturally it seems to recover so I guess that's the same.

Yeah well if you have a couple of Crassula plants you can try it with a few of them. If they have not had much sunlight exposure during winter it's important to get them adjusted to higher light levels gradually so they don't burn and scar (happened to my Crassula ovata "Gollum"). But if they are kept in the conservatory all year round you probably won't have that issue.

That Crassula is almost like a bonsai insofar as you can prune it quite regularly and it will not get cross with ya!

Alun wrote: »

One more thing regarding them, sometimes some of the leaves get a bit of a red tinge to them, is that a problem?

The red tinge is from sun exposure and (unlike the fair Irish skin when it burns!) it's not a bad thing on Crassula - as long as above warnings are heeded

The red tinge is actually desired by many growers. I noticed that plants I keep outdoors develop a much stronger tinge, so it's probably down to UV levels - from Wikipedia article: "C. ovata is famous for garnishing a red tinge around its leaves when grown with bright sunlight. In more extreme cases, the green colour of the plant is lost and can be replaced by yellow. This is caused by the jade plant making pigments such as carotenoids to protect from harsh sunlight and ultraviolet rays." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crassula_ovata)

As I said in my previous post, us cactoholics meet regularly in the Botanic Gardens and it's a great way to exchange plants, cuttings, seeds and advice :cool:

pyxxel · 24-04-2015 12:43pm

thelad95 wrote: »

Should Jeremy Clarkson have been sacked?

I think he should be potted (head-first) in a sludgy, slimy soil and kept moist at all times. Place pot in a dark spot and harvest mushrooms in late Winter.

pyxxel · 24-04-2015 12:44pm

BTW I'll be away for the weekend so may not be able to check this thread, but can comment on all new questions on Monday

Zebrano · 24-04-2015 1:25pm

pyxxel wrote: »

When you have one plant rotting, other plants close by can catch some spores too and if they have some wound (maybe through blackfly larvae in the soil, which feed on roots, or similar pests) the rot can spread at an astonishing rate. To prevent it you need to have them in a well-draining compost (sand/grit mixed in), keep them dryer in winter, and keep them away from cold drafts. Some systemic pesticide (e.g. Provado) can control soil-based pests better than sprays. Inspect your plants closely from time to time to see if there's any unwanted lodgers about! Even slugs can get in from the garden and while their nibbling often heals off, spores might get in and cause rot.

The DDCSS (Dublin & District Cactus & Succulent Society) meets regularly in the Botanic Gardens in Glasnevin. The next meeting is scheduled for 11. June (sadly no May meeting) at 6:30pm and a lot of members bring free plants to swap - I do every time! So that's a good way to get started. Many garden centres have a selection of cacti & succulents on offer, but as I said before, don't buy the ones with pinned-on eyes and sombreros, or those with sprayed-on glitter, because that's very bad for the plants! For identification of diseases and pests, check out this handy guide: http://cactiguide.com/cactipests/

I don't know any garden centres in North Dublin, I found very good plants in Johnstown Garden Centre on the Naas road - http://www.johnstowngardencentre.ie/

When you buy a plant from a garden centre, make sure to unpot it soon after, brush most of the soil off the roots (I use an old toothbrush) and let the roots dry off for a week, then repot into fresh compost mixed with grit and sand - the soil should remain loose when you squeeze it and should drain well. This helps the plants get a good start in a new location! MAke sure they get lots of sunlight and water well during summer, especially when it's sunny out, but make sure the soil dries off almost entirely before watering again. Good luck!

Thanks for that. Where abouts do u meet in the botanic gardens.

Zebrano · 24-04-2015 1:34pm

Did u build the conservatory for your plants

pyxxel · 24-04-2015 1:50pm

Zebrano wrote: »

Thanks for that. Where abouts do u meet in the botanic gardens.

The front gate will be open and the security staff will point you to our meeting place - usually in the cafeteria

Rabo Karabekian · 25-04-2015 1:35pm

Hi pyxxel,

This has probably been asked already (wanted to get my question in before the thread closes, but will go back through it later) but I have a crassula ovata (http://www.jardinexotiqueroscoff.com/site/uploads/pictures/plante/800x800/crassulaceae-crassula-ovata-2.jpg)for around 8 years or so and has never flowered. Is there anything that I can do to make this happen?

Also, can you advise on cuttings? It's getting a little too big, and would like to trim it back, but don't want to damage it. I have zero knowledge on how to cut back a plant like this, so any advice would be appreciated. Also, can the cuttings be used to grow 'new' plants?

Ankhyu · 26-04-2015 1:16pm

Hi Pyxxel, would you be able to tell me what kind of plant this is?

1902891_10152358134822546_637508598632270000_n.jpg?oh=552500d35bbba34e1daaa5204bfb9cc2&oe=55CE904F

1902891_10152358134822546_637508598632270000_n.jpg?oh=552500d35bbba34e1daaa5204bfb9cc2&oe=55CE904F

It was in my parent's house for years in a tiny pot and kind of neglected, until I brought it out to my place and re-potted it. It has even come a long way since this photo was taken, but are there any specific requirements that I should be adhering to?

Great thread by the way, very interesting. I've been considering getting a cactus again so I'll be referring back here

scudzilla · 26-04-2015 4:18pm

Hi Pyxxel

This is my lad, can you tell me if it will do something at some point?
Also, what is your favourite type of cheese?

pyxxel · 27-04-2015 12:54pm

Zebrano wrote: »

Did u build the conservatory for your plants

Hi there, back again after my weekend away! Well to answer your question, opinions differ... I would say "yes" but my wife thinks it's much better for relaxing in, enjoying the heat and sipping cool white wine. The truth is somewhere in the middle!

But of course, it's perfectly suited to keep most cacti and succulents in, better than a greenhouse I would argue. In winter it can capture heat on sunny days and warm up nicely, while night-time temperatures can fall fairly low, even during the summer - mimicking desert climate pretty well. And of course, high light levels are perfect for such plants.

Now Ye're Talkin' To A Cactus & Succulent Enthusiast!

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