Public sector pay increase

Roger Hassenforder · 24-05-2015 11:16pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Who imposed the condition that the company needs to be insolvent? And to answer your question the company pays its employees redundancy.

eh, you did:

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

....if an entrepreneur goes bust?

Bust:

1. Informal
a. To smash or break, especially forcefully: "Mr. Luger worked it with a rake, busting up the big clods, making a flat brown table" (Garrison Keillor).
b. To render inoperable or unusable: busted the vending machine by putting in foreign coins.
2. To cause to come to an end; break up: an attempt to bust the union.
3. To break or tame (a horse).
4. To cause to become bankrupt or short of money:

Insolvent:
adjective
1.not solvent; unable to satisfy creditors or discharge liabilities, either because liabilities exceed assets or because of inability to pay debts as they mature.
2.pertaining to bankrupt persons or bankruptcy.

in theory, the employer should pay redundancy. Doesnt always happen.

Paulzx · 24-05-2015 11:26pm

JillyQ wrote: »

I do how ever believe that things like motor tax etc should be privatised

Why?

It seems to me that the motor tax system works perfectly efficently as is.

You receive notice that your tax is due to expire well in advance.

You get a pin number to renew online.

Disk arrives about 2 days later.

Why would you pay an outside company to carry out an already efficent process?

Iwasfrozen · 24-05-2015 11:37pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

in theory, the employer should pay redundancy. Doesnt always happen.

You misunderstood, the other poster was claiming since the state loses when a company goes bust that somehow gives legitimacy to unions to blackmail employers.

Roger Hassenforder · 24-05-2015 11:51pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You misunderstood, the other poster was claiming since the state loses when a company goes bust that somehow gives legitimacy to unions to blackmail employers.

dont think anyone is claiming that tbf.

Its in the unions interest to have the best possible rights and conditions for its members in that company. It doesnt serve the union or its members to close a company should the company not respond to "blackmail"

Just curious, were you ever in a union?

Iwasfrozen · 25-05-2015 12:16am

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

dont think anyone is claiming that tbf.

Its in the unions interest to have the best possible rights and conditions for its members in that company. It doesnt serve the union or its members to close a company should the company not respond to "blackmail"

Just curious, were you ever in a union?

No, but I wasn't claiming that. Unions cost the company by preventing managers from making necessary and beneficial changes to company organization without being subject to union led blackmail.

To answer your question, no I've never been in a union.

JillyQ · 25-05-2015 12:21am

Paulzx wrote: »

Why?

It seems to me that the motor tax system works perfectly efficently as is.

You receive notice that your tax is due to expire well in advance.

You get a pin number to renew online.

Disk arrives about 2 days later.

Why would you pay an outside company to carry out an already efficent process?

your lucky that you can get it within 2 days, where i am it can take over 2 weeks to get it. Also if you happen to be Unfortunate enough to have to go into the motor tax office at the start of the month it can take up two hours to get it done while some of the counters are closed and other staff just get up and walk off while there is a queue of people there waiting. That to me is not efficient.
efficient.

Sheldons Brain · 25-05-2015 12:27am

Iwasfrozen wrote:

Yes clearly Korean culture is different but clearly they're doing something right and a little bit of Korean work ethic in our schools wouldn't be a bad thing.

Korean teachers earn 40% more than typical graduate salaries, while Irish teachers earn 20% less.
Perhaps open a couple of experimental Korean style schools, pay the teachers 60% for more the longer year and see what happens. Or do you want Korean work ethic and Irish style pay?

JillyQ wrote:

your lucky that you can get it within 2 days, where i am it can take over 2 weeks to get it.

Motortax is efficient, any routine renewal over the Internet is 2-3 days. More attention should be paid to getting other public services as efficient rather than ranting about pay all the time.

Iwasfrozen · 25-05-2015 12:48am

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Korean teachers earn 40% more than typical graduate salaries, while Irish teachers earn 20% less.
Perhaps open a couple of experimental Korean style schools, pay the teachers 60% for more the longer year and see what happens. Or do you want Korean work ethic and Irish style pay?

Where are you getting that info from? I'm not saying you're wrong but I haven't been able to find real Korean teacher salaries, just ESL teachers.

Sheldons Brain · 25-05-2015 1:03am

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Where are you getting that info from? I'm not saying you're wrong but I haven't been able to find real Korean teacher salaries, just ESL teachers.

All of this is in the OECD
e.g. http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/teachers-salaries_teachsal-table-en
http://www.oecd.org/edu/eag2013%20(eng)--FINAL%2020%20June%202013.pdf

mindful that in almost every country except Ireland, secondary teachers are better paid than primary ones and that scales differ, so the average or maximum might give a different comparison.

Iwasfrozen · 25-05-2015 1:56am

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

All of this is in the OECD
e.g. http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/teachers-salaries_teachsal-table-en
http://www.oecd.org/edu/eag2013%20(eng)--FINAL%2020%20June%202013.pdf

mindful that in almost every country except Ireland, secondary teachers are better paid than primary ones and that scales differ, so the average or maximum might give a different comparison.

From reading that chart Irish teachers are paid more than Korean teachers initially and after 15 years while Korean teachers have a higher maximum salary.

Also it takes 22 years to reach maximum salary in Ireland while in Korea it takes 37 years.

That implies to me Korean teachers are paid less than Irish teachers for working a longer year.

darkpagandeath · 25-05-2015 3:25am

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

From reading that chart Irish teachers are paid more than Korean teachers initially and after 15 years while Korean teachers have a higher maximum salary.

Also it takes 22 years to reach maximum salary in Ireland while in Korea it takes 37 years.

That implies to me Korean teachers are paid less than Irish teachers for working a longer year.

And Tbh you can't just compare flat € conversion on wage, many factors standard of living working hours time off pensions tax loads more. I'm sorry but our guys get a very sweet deal.

Jawgap · 25-05-2015 5:42am

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The state, and the above is another example of how tax incentives, subsidiesand grants are damaging to the economy.

I'll ask you again. Why does the state assuming risk, if they do, imply unions of workers can blackmail their employees?

You're tying to make a connection between the state loosing out when a company is in trouble and allowing unions to threaten companies in general.

Actually I'm not.

Are you suggesting the State shouldn't incentivise indigenous business start ups through grants-in-aid, tax breaks, technical supports etc

Unions or employees don't blackmail anyone.

Roger Hassenforder · 25-05-2015 7:49am

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No, but I wasn't claiming that. Unions cost the company by preventing managers from making necessary and beneficial changes to company organization without being subject to union led blackmail.

To answer your question, no I've never been in a union.

Where are you getting these notions of how unions work?
There's a system of industrial relations management in this country, that unions operate within. Blackmail is not one of the options. There is even statutory protection for employers if the grievance isn't well grounded.
Unions exist to protect workers rights and provide collective bargaining.
There is a massive difference between threatening industrial action where an employer is seeking to maximise profits or implement changes to the detriment of workers, and where an employer must implement changes to ensure survival, which in this case the unions usually work with the employer to minimise damage to its members.

Jawgap · 25-05-2015 8:30am

JillyQ wrote: »

your lucky that you can get it within 2 days, where i am it can take over 2 weeks to get it. Also if you happen to be Unfortunate enough to have to go into the motor tax office at the start of the month it can take up two hours to get it done while some of the counters are closed and other staff just get up and walk off while there is a queue of people there waiting. That to me is not efficient.
efficient.

.....and there you have it.

Motor tax and the payment thereof can easily be done online - yet people want physical locations where they can go an pay!

You could do away with every motor tax counter in the country tomorrow and move to online payment - back office admin could be outsourced and the country could save a not insignificant amount on its pay bill.

But people want their counters, their local authority offices etc and that means they have to be staffed.

"What about the old folks etc?" people will ask.

Simple, they get themselves along to their local library (they're pretty much all connected now) where the local librarian can help them.

"Not everyone has a credit / debit card"

Simple, stop at your nearest Payzone affiliated retailer and pick up a 3V voucher for the amount and use that.

JillyQ · 25-05-2015 11:27am

Jawgap wrote: »

.....and there you have it.

Motor tax and the payment thereof can easily be done online - yet people want physical locations where they can go an pay!

You could do away with every motor tax counter in the country tomorrow and move to online payment - back office admin could be outsourced and the country could save a not insignificant amount on its pay bill.

But people want their counters, their local authority offices etc and that means they have to be staffed.

"What about the old folks etc?" people will ask.

Simple, they get themselves along to their local library (they're pretty much all connected now) where the local librarian can help them.

"Not everyone has a credit / debit card"

Simple, stop at your nearest Payzone affiliated retailer and pick up a 3V voucher for the amount and use that.

you missed the point even when it is ordered online it can still take over two weeks to get it.

Vizzy · 25-05-2015 11:37am

JillyQ wrote: »

you missed the point even when it is ordered online it can still take over two weeks to get it.

But surely that is not the fault of motortax.ie ?
They simply process the application and post out the disc, it doesn't matter if you live in Ballyfermot or Ballydehob.

Sheldons Brain · 25-05-2015 12:01pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

From reading that chart Irish teachers are paid more than Korean teachers initially and after 15 years while Korean teachers have a higher maximum salary.

Also it takes 22 years to reach maximum salary in Ireland while in Korea it takes 37 years.

That implies to me Korean teachers are paid less than Irish teachers for working a longer year.

You have the unique ability to interpret and misprepresent data of an Indo journalist.

My original point was that Korean teachers were better paid relative to graduate salaries in their country, so just comparing the absolute salaries does not invalidate my point.

The length of the scale is a relevant point, if you are proposing that Irish teachers be paid more but only after longer service then that too is a plan.

Calina · 25-05-2015 1:03pm

JillyQ wrote: »

you missed the point even when it is ordered online it can still take over two weeks to get it.

You're missing the point. I never do anything other than renew online. It has never ever EVER taken over 2 weeks for it to be returned to me. Max 3 days.

JillyQ · 25-05-2015 1:04pm

Vizzy wrote: »

But surely that is not the fault of motortax.ie ?
They simply process the application and post out the disc, it doesn't matter if you live in Ballyfermot or Ballydehob.

Its the relevant councils that issue them

Calina · 25-05-2015 1:06pm

JillyQ wrote: »

your lucky that you can get it within 2 days, where i am it can take over 2 weeks to get it. Also if you happen to be Unfortunate enough to have to go into the motor tax office at the start of the month it can take up two hours to get it done while some of the counters are closed and other staff just get up and walk off while there is a queue of people there waiting. That to me is not efficient.
efficient.

Absolutely every single private services company is trying to encourage people to carry out their duties online. Banks. Airlines. Travel agents. Mobile phone companies. Try getting hold of a human being navigating some of the phone contact numbers for these organisations.

If you think that privatising the motor tax system would lead to a situation where you've nice efficient no queuing renewal offices operated by a private operator, I'm sorry, you're wrong. NCT is run by a private operator. I'm not sure anyone would agree that it's better and more organised than Motor Tax Renewals given the issues people occasionally have getting an appointment for a legally mandated test.

JillyQ · 25-05-2015 1:22pm

Calina wrote: »

Absolutely every single private services company is trying to encourage people to carry out their duties online. Banks. Airlines. Travel agents. Mobile phone companies. Try getting hold of a human being navigating some of the phone contact numbers for these organisations.

If you think that privatising the motor tax system would lead to a situation where you've nice efficient no queuing renewal offices operated by a private operator, I'm sorry, you're wrong. NCT is run by a private operator. I'm not sure anyone would agree that it's better and more organised than Motor Tax Renewals given the issues people occasionally have getting an appointment for a legally mandated test.

My car was NCT'd last friday it was in & out in 25 mins. Booked it in six weeks ago. I saw someone in there who needed a retest for a minor issue have there car booked in for 7am the following morning are you under the impression that you would get anyone in the motor tax office to start work at 7am in the morning.

Calina · 25-05-2015 1:26pm

JillyQ wrote: »

My car was NCT'd last friday it was in & out in 25 mins. Booked it in six weeks ago. I saw someone in there who needed a retest for a minor issue have there car booked in for 7am the following morning are you under the impression that you would get anyone in the motor tax office to start work at 7am in the morning.

In a lot of countries, JillyQ, you don't have to book six weeks in advance. In this country it can be difficult to get an appointment three months in advance at certain times of the year. Not only that, not everyone can get that 7am appointment.

You can do your motor tax online at any time of the day or night and this holds for most people. The vast majority people do not have to go anywhere near a motor tax office and this is how it should be.

JillyQ · 25-05-2015 1:35pm

Calina wrote: »

In a lot of countries, JillyQ, you don't have to book six weeks in advance. In this country it can be difficult to get an appointment three months in advance at certain times of the year. Not only that, not everyone can get that 7am appointment.

You can do your motor tax online at any time of the day or night and this holds for most people. The vast majority people do not have to go anywhere near a motor tax office and this is how it should be.

Maybe your right i used it as an example try dealing with any administrative side of any government department outside of 9.30 am to 4pm & you are on to a looser.

25-05-2015 2:10pm

JillyQ wrote: »

Maybe your right i used it as an example try dealing with any administrative side of any government department outside of 9.30 am to 4pm & you are on to a looser.

Try dealing with a lot of private businesses outside of office hours and you wont get any joy either, hence why they are called "office hours". There is absolutely no need for the motor tax office to be open at 7am.

Vizzy · 25-05-2015 3:48pm

JillyQ wrote: »

Its the relevant councils that issue them

Wrong again !!

Nothing to do with the Local Council, the disc is issued from Shannon and as I say it doesn't matter what part of the country you are living in, you should get your disc in a matter of days.

JillyQ · 25-05-2015 4:07pm

Yara Old Backyard wrote: »

Try dealing with a lot of private businesses outside of office hours and you wont get any joy either, hence why they are called "office hours". There is absolutely no need for the motor tax office to be open at 7am.

Really if i call the likes of UPC, Vodafone, banks, my insurance company etc i will actually get through to someone up to about 10pm at night time all be it in a call centre. There is absolutely no reason why something like the motor tax cant be done like that.

25-05-2015 4:21pm

JillyQ wrote: »

Really if i call the likes of UPC, Vodafone, banks, my insurance company etc i will actually get through to someone up to about 10pm at night time all be it in a call centre. There is absolutely no reason why something like the motor tax cant be done like that.

There is no need for it, the vast majority of people just renew online or go to the office during office hours. Renewing your tax is not a complex procedure requiring call centres open all hours of the day and night, internet providers and phone companies etc are different there can be problems that need sorting on the spot at anytime etc.

I renew my tax online every year and have done for years without ever having to go near the office. The only time I was having to go to the office was when I was going 3 months on 2 months off and getting the car signed off the road regularly. Nowadays taxing a commercial for the first time or some other rare occurrence with arrears etc are the only reason you would need to do anything other than what's offered on line.

Also phone banking out of hours is the same as internet banking. You can do everyday tasks but you wont be organizing a loan or a mortgage or taking to the manager of your branch.

Jawgap · 25-05-2015 5:19pm

JillyQ wrote: »

you missed the point even when it is ordered online it can still take over two weeks to get it.

Order it early then.

Or we follow the NI model and do away with discs and invest in ANPR technology.

There's loads of things we can do to streamline our public services but as long as people are wedded to having them delivered from physical locations they'll continue to be costly. Politicians don't see any votes in closing council offices, Garda stations, HSE facilities etc

evolving_doors · 25-05-2015 9:21pm

JillyQ wrote: »

your lucky that you can get it within 2 days, where i am it can take over 2 weeks to get it. Also if you happen to be Unfortunate enough to have to go into the motor tax office at the start of the month it can take up two hours to get it done while some of the counters are closed and other staff just get up and walk off while there is a queue of people there waiting. That to me is not efficient.
efficient.

It sounds like they are understaffed to me...

Anyhow... did my road tax online last week, took 2 minutes, disc in post this morning. Perfect system... and you want to privatise it!!

JillyQ · 25-05-2015 10:02pm

Gebgbegb wrote: »

It sounds like they are understaffed to me...

Anyhow... did my road tax online last week, took 2 minutes, disc in post this morning. Perfect system... and you want to privatise it!!

Its a cost that they can get rid of by either privatising it or sub contracting it out. I would love to see the use of the ANPR's rolled more. As that would be beneficial to private sector.

mad m · 25-05-2015 10:08pm

Gebgbegb wrote: »

It sounds like they are understaffed to me...

Anyhow... did my road tax online last week, took 2 minutes, disc in post this morning. Perfect system... and you want to privatise it!!

Yeah it's a great system, but look where the road tax money ended up last time, Irish water got it.

Roger Hassenforder · 25-05-2015 11:36pm

JillyQ wrote: »

Its a cost that they can get rid of by either privatising it or sub contracting it out. I would love to see the use of the ANPR's rolled more. As that would be beneficial to private sector.

so a nationally centralised mechanism of raising revenue for the state is privatised, thereby inserting a third party into the process whose sole motive is profit, so after taking their costs out of the turnover, they return a portion to the state less their profits. This third party pays a dividend to their shareholders, not necessarily Irish, and a portion of the money probably leaves the state...

Whereas with the current system, Irish public servants, employed in some town like Carlow (something tells me its in Carlow?) or Shannon, buy goods and services in the local economy, services providing local employment, paying rates, PAYE etc., and ensuring a significant amount of the money ends up back with the government as VAT.

this isnt a PPP, which are of arguable benefit to the state, this service is already being provided efficiently.

What we could do is a trial run though, with something simple like driving licences...see how that goes?

Roger Hassenforder · 25-05-2015 11:40pm

mad m wrote: »

Yeah it's a great system, but look where the road tax money ended up last time, Irish water got it.

money into gubbernment from various sources
Money out of gubbernment to various sources.

money that would have ended up being paid to local authorities as the Local Government Fund, and grants and subsidies etc., was paid to IW to pay the local authorities to provide the services on their behalf...
A model of efficiency!

Black Menorca · 26-05-2015 12:19am

Its payback time for public servants.

JillyQ · 26-05-2015 12:28am

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

so a nationally centralised mechanism of raising revenue for the state is privatised, thereby inserting a third party into the process whose sole motive is profit, so after taking their costs out of the turnover, they return a portion to the state less their profits. This third party pays a dividend to their shareholders, not necessarily Irish, and a portion of the money probably leaves the state...

Whereas with the current system, Irish public servants, employed in some town like Carlow (something tells me its in Carlow?) or Shannon, buy goods and services in the local economy, services providing local employment, paying rates, PAYE etc., and ensuring a significant amount of the money ends up back with the government as VAT.

this isnt a PPP, which are of arguable benefit to the state, this service is already being provided efficiently.

What we could do is a trial run though, with something simple like driving licences...see how that goes?

The state could of course be made a shareholder init then getting a dividend from it to put back in public services such as hosiptals, education etc. My experience of the Drivers Licencing since it has been moved away from the councils is that it is quiet efficient. Look at it in the vast majority of cases you can get an appointment within the next seven days. All be it the issuing again of the licences takes some time. Issuing of licences I would assume has to be checked for convictions etc.

Roger Hassenforder · 26-05-2015 12:58am

JillyQ wrote: »

The state could of course be made a shareholder init then getting a dividend from it to put back in public services such as hosiptals, education etc. My experience of the Drivers Licencing since it has been moved away from the councils is that it is quiet efficient. Look at it in the vast majority of cases you can get an appointment within the next seven days. All be it the issuing again of the licences takes some time. Issuing of licences I would assume has to be checked for convictions etc.

you're hilarious!
you find the NDLS efficient, but motortax inefficient!

and you still are quiet happy to have a third party reducing revenue for the state, by extracting profits for themselves.

JillyQ · 26-05-2015 1:05am

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

you're hilarious!
you find the NDLS efficient, but motortax inefficient!

and you still are quiet happy to have a third party reducing revenue for the state, by extracting profits for themselves.

your cutting the costs for the state by getting rid of the salary bill paid to them, you also include the state in profit of it by making it a share holder and paying it a dividend. Oh and if the employees are prepared to work in the private sector they still get their salary & the state still gets the taxes. It is not a necessary state service. NDLS is open on saturdays for people who want to go in motor tax isnt.

Roger Hassenforder · 26-05-2015 2:00am

JillyQ wrote: »

your cutting the costs for the state by getting rid of the salary bill paid to them, you also include the state in profit of it by making it a share holder and paying it a dividend. Oh and if the employees are prepared to work in the private sector they still get their salary & the state still gets the taxes. It is not a necessary state service. NDLS is open on saturdays for people who want to go in motor tax isnt.

motor tax is open 24/7!

significant state revenue collection should remain within the control of the state.
you still have your third party taking a cut though!
is it more "getting rid of the workers" than getting rid of the salary bill?

JillyQ · 26-05-2015 2:14am

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

motor tax is open 24/7!

significant state revenue collection should remain within the control of the state.
you still have your third party taking a cut though!
is it more "getting rid of the workers" than getting rid of the salary bill?

The state is still getting its cut motor tax is paid to them along with the added dividend. With out the cost of the salary bill, properties etc Of course a private operator takes it cut as well. Along with the online system you have longer opening hours and more flexible opening hours. Goverment gets the money without the cost, as well as the private operator generating an income, which increases the tax take for the goverment. Only difference is it must be run at profit in order to increase the revenue.

Roger Hassenforder · 26-05-2015 8:02am

JillyQ wrote: »

The state is still getting its cut motor tax is paid to them along with the added dividend. With out the cost of the salary bill, properties etc Of course a private operator takes it cut as well. Along with the online system you have longer opening hours and more flexible opening hours. Goverment gets the money without the cost, as well as the private operator generating an income, which increases the tax take for the goverment. Only difference is it must be run at profit in order to increase the revenue.

can we apply this logic to libraries, public transport, playgrounds, health service, court service, planning system etc?
or just to those services that are profitable and revenue generating, reducing the exposure for the private operator?

Jawgap · 26-05-2015 8:50am

JillyQ wrote: »

Its a cost that they can get rid of by either privatising it or sub contracting it out. I would love to see the use of the ANPR's rolled more. As that would be beneficial to private sector.

How?

other than supplying the tech and joining up the various databases, how could the application of ANPR technology benefit the private sector?

If anything it would add costs to their sector because it would increase efficiency of applying, administering and collecting fines - an ANPR equipped car just needs to roll around a city or large town for about 8 hours and the number of fines imposed would likely cover the capital cost of acquiring the set in the car.

Jawgap · 26-05-2015 8:54am

JillyQ wrote: »

The state could of course be made a shareholder init then getting a dividend from it to put back in public services such as hosiptals, education etc. My experience of the Drivers Licencing since it has been moved away from the councils is that it is quiet efficient. Look at it in the vast majority of cases you can get an appointment within the next seven days. All be it the issuing again of the licences takes some time. Issuing of licences I would assume has to be checked for convictions etc.

Well currently the state is a shareholder in it - the only shareholder

Drivers' Licensing? How do you know it's more efficient - no doubt response and completion times are hugely improved, but at what cost? How much did the system cost before and how much does it cost now?

Jawgap · 26-05-2015 8:55am

JillyQ wrote: »

your cutting the costs for the state by getting rid of the salary bill paid to them, you also include the state in profit of it by making it a share holder and paying it a dividend. Oh and if the employees are prepared to work in the private sector they still get their salary & the state still gets the taxes. It is not a necessary state service. NDLS is open on saturdays for people who want to go in motor tax isnt.

You may get rid of the salary bill, but how much do NDLS get paid for providing the service? Is it more or less than the salaries saved?

Geuze · 26-05-2015 10:26am

mad m wrote: »

Yeah it's a great system, but look where the road tax money ended up last time, Irish water got it.

Motor tax always was paid to local councils, partly to pay for water.

There has been no change, now just paid to IW instead, but still to pay for water.

Celticfire · 26-05-2015 5:33pm

JillyQ wrote: »

The state could of course be made a shareholder init then getting a dividend from it to put back in public services such as hosiptals, education etc. My experience of the Drivers Licencing since it has been moved away from the councils is that it is quiet efficient. Look at it in the vast majority of cases you can get an appointment within the next seven days. All be it the issuing again of the licences takes some time. Issuing of licences I would assume has to be checked for convictions etc.

And don't forget that the cost of the licence also decreased once it was privatised. :rolleyes:

JillyQ · 26-05-2015 6:15pm

Celticfire wrote: »

And don't forget that the cost of the licence also decreased once it was privatised. :rolleyes:

Forgot about that

Roger Hassenforder · 26-05-2015 7:20pm

Celticfire wrote: »

And don't forget that the cost of the licence also decreased once it was privatised. :rolleyes:

Outsourced.
RSA now responsible.
I think your sarcasm was wasted on Jilly?

"...Mr Varadkar said this new price for a full licence compared favourably to the €85 cost for a full licence in Spain, €62 in Britain and more than €100 in Australia.... The new fees represent the first licence fee increase since 2001

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/plastic-card-driving-licences-in-2013-216175.html

daithi7 · 28-05-2015 4:08pm

The economist has an interesting piece on world indebtedness, which it thinks is far too high & should be reduced.... HELLO! Ireland is still the most indebted country on the planet, as can be seen on their info graphic.... (just click on the highest curve) yikes!!

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/05/daily-chart-4

Yet,still some people believe we should take on even more debt every year, to pay for more current expenditure for yet higher public sector salaries, pensions &benefits that are already well ahead of their private sector equivalents!? Just why exactly!? Other than screwing the country & economy & current &future generations even more!?!

Wake up Ireland, a sector is trying to cheat you.

granturismo · 28-05-2015 4:30pm

daithi7 wrote: »

The economist has an interesting piece on world indebtedness, which it thinks is far too high & should be reduced.... HELLO! Ireland is still the most indebted country on the planet, as can be seen on their info graphic.... (just click on the highest curve) yikes!!

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/05/daily-chart-4

Yet,still some people believe we should take on even more debt every year, to pay for more current expenditure for yet higher public sector salaries, pensions &benefits that are already well ahead of their private sector equivalents!...

Wake up Ireland, a sector is trying to cheat you.

Read the text underneath;

But plenty of countries have gone out on a limb. Some are financial centres, such as Singapore and Ireland. Their debts are inflated because they host the subsidiaries of many global banks and companies.

darkpagandeath · 28-05-2015 4:36pm

granturismo wrote: »

Read the text underneath;

But plenty of countries have gone out on a limb. Some are financial centres, such as Singapore and Ireland. Their debts are inflated because they host the subsidiaries of many global banks and companies.

How many Foreign banks do we have here again ? We may have Brass plates.

Public sector pay increase

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