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Confiscating Free Travel Passes?

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135

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    #62
    V.W.L 11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭V.W.L 11


    Gatling wrote: »
    I hope they change the eligibility of passes and only issue them to those who truly need them not the current free for all I'm entitled to crowds
    you'd see plenty of well able bodied people legally holding them,thats morally wrong,they should only be for the physically disabled and pensioners,and i have no doubt 95% of travel pass holders are genuinely entitled to/need it


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    #63
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    V.W.L 11 wrote: »
    you'd see plenty of well able bodied people legally holding them,thats morally wrong,they should only be for the physically disabled and pensioners,and i have no doubt 95% of travel pass holders are genuinely entitled to/need it

    Pensioners in a lot of case's are way better off than most ordinary people ,

    Disabled or those unable to work due to verified illness
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    #64
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    V.W.L 11 wrote: »
    you'd see plenty of well able bodied people legally holding them,thats morally wrong,they should only be for the physically disabled and pensioners,and i have no doubt 95% of travel pass holders are genuinely entitled to/need it

    why is it morally wrong?


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    #65
    V.W.L 11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭V.W.L 11


    Gatling wrote: »
    Pensioners in a lot of case's are way better off than most ordinary people ,

    Disabled or those unable to work due to verified illness

    means test for pensioners???


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    #66
    V.W.L 11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭V.W.L 11


    KCAccidental wrote: »
    why is it morally wrong?

    not all cases are genuine as is the case across most welfare depts,wpuld you agree or disagree that 100% of people holding travel passes have them legitimately??!


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    #67
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    V.W.L 11 wrote: »
    means test for pensioners???

    It should be means tested but everyone knows that won't happen
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #68
    V.W.L 11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭V.W.L 11


    Gatling wrote: »
    It should be means tested but everyone knows that won't happen

    government are afraid of losing the "grey vote" by doing it


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    #69
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    V.W.L 11 wrote: »
    not all cases are genuine as is the case across most welfare depts,wpuld you agree or disagree that 100% of people holding travel passes have them legitimately??!

    whether 100% of people who hold travel passes have them legitimately is not my question though.

    why do you think able bodied people suffering from other debilitating problems having free travel passes is "morally wrong"?


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    #70
    V.W.L 11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭V.W.L 11


    KCAccidental wrote: »
    whether 100% of people who hold travel passes have them legitimately is not my question though.

    why do you think able bodied people suffering from other debilitating problems having free travel passes is "morally wrong"?
    you're one of these able bodied people who holds a bus pass and dont like what you're reading???if you're well able to get about why should you have a bus pass???because people suffer from depression???only the physically and mentally disabled as well as those with serious medical conditions should have them and the pensioners


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    #71
    admcfad
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭admcfad


    bmaxi wrote: »
    As an invalid, I have a yellow band pass. It has no expiry date and I have not been advised that it is no longer valid or that it is being withdrawn, nor have I been issued with any replacement.

    The red banded passes are issued by the DSP when they are replacing lost/out of date yellow banded passes, or for new applications in the last number of years....... Yours is still valid.

    Sorry AlecSmart just seen your post


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    #72
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,286 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    OK folks, relax. Do not be judgemental towards to who are entitled to free travel passes.

    There are many possible ways to reform the system. Lets not be overly dogmatic in how we draw those lines or in commenting on how others draw those lines.

    Moderator


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    #73
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    V.W.L 11 wrote: »
    you're one of these able bodied people who holds a bus pass and dont like what you're reading???if you're well able to get about why should you have a bus pass???because people suffer from depression???only the physically and mentally disabled as well as those with serious medical conditions should have them and the pensioners

    Seems interesting that you are dismissing acute mental illness as something not worthy. Just cements the stigma that mental illness has in this country. No wonder our suicide rate is so high with the "sure there's nothing wrong with ya" attitude.

    Also I do not appreciate you "accusing" me of something. It seems to me you are unable to argue your assertion that able bodied people with debilitating illnesses needing intensive treatment using free travel passes is "morally wrong" and the only thing you can do is lash out at me.

    I'll ask you again. Why is it morally wrong?


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    #74
    Morf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,822 ✭✭✭Morf


    With the plans for Free Travel smartcard users to electronically tag-on is there any mention of tracking travel of certain or all users?

    There may be issues of preventing fraud on one hand and privacy on the other.

    Is the Leap card data collated for service planning already and is it anonymous?


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    #75
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,286 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Morf wrote: »
    Is the Leap card data collated for service planning already and is it anonymous?
    The transport operators only know it was card number 1234567890. They do not know who owns the card.

    Leap Card only know that Card 1234567890 had X amount deducted at Y time/date by Z operator. They would also have any personal registration data.

    The NTA are likely to get summary reports from the operators, e.g. up north there was a report that one card issued to someone with a disability was being used on the same bus 10 times a day. Enquiries revealed that it was likely a guy who had a part-time care taker job who would typically return home several times a day.

    The exact rules would need to be agreed with the Data Protection Commissioner.


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    #76
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Whilst it essential to stamp down on fraud, care should be taken when advocating curtailing free travel as it is effectively a subsidy for the whole system, which would have to be curtailed without it.


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    #77
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    corktina wrote: »
    Whilst it essential to stamp down on fraud, care should be taken when advocating curtailing free travel as it is effectively a subsidy for the whole system, which would have to be curtailed without it.
    Which is defrauding taxpayers. Any subsidy should be transparent.


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    #78
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Transparent to the point of losing the service?


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    #79
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    corktina wrote: »
    Transparent to the point of losing the service?

    Under the current arrangements, services are being lost.


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    #80
    Conway635
    Registered Users Posts: 400 ✭✭Conway635


    The first thing that should happen, is the the time-based restrictions on free travel should be re-applied.

    This used to mean that travel on peak services had to be paid for.

    There was a poem that CIE used to use to advise "housewives" when not to travel, perhaps it could be resurrected for Free Travel Pass holders:
    Shopping? Visiting?
    Then get home early, at your ease
    Leave rush-hour seats for workers please!

    C635


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    #81
    V.W.L 11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭V.W.L 11


    Conway635 wrote: »
    The first thing that should happen, is the the time-based restrictions on free travel should be re-applied.

    This used to mean that travel on peak services had to be paid for.

    There was a poem that CIE used to use to advise "housewives" when not to travel, perhaps it could be resurrected for Free Travel Pass holders:
    Shopping? Visiting?
    Then get home early, at your ease
    Leave rush-hour seats for workers please!

    C635

    i 110% agree with you but if KCaccidental sees this they will probably get defensive as they have done to my previous comments,the whole system badly needs an overhaul from top to bottom


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    #82
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Conway635 wrote: »
    The first thing that should happen, is the the time-based restrictions on free travel should be re-applied.

    This used to mean that travel on peak services had to be paid for.

    There was a poem that CIE used to use to advise "housewives" when not to travel, perhaps it could be resurrected for Free Travel Pass holders:
    Shopping? Visiting?
    Then get home early, at your ease
    Leave rush-hour seats for workers please!

    C635

    I absolutely agree with this. There are trains leaving the station i work in at peak times with 50+ people standing and about 75% of the "customers" are on free travel. It's the same with any of the bus drivers i talk to.

    Part of it is poor set management but a lot of it is people on free travel traveling for the sake of traveling because it's the same heads coming in and out of the place every day.

    It doesn't really matter to the company because they get paid either way but i know if i was a paying customer i'd be rather put off using the train again.


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    #83
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,286 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    V.W.L 11 wrote: »
    if KCaccidental sees this
    Knock it off, all of you

    Moderator


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    #84
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    V.W.L 11 wrote: »
    i 110% agree with you but if KCaccidental sees this they will probably get defensive as they have done to my previous comments,the whole system badly needs an overhaul from top to bottom

    I take it you can't stand behind your own opinions then. Good to know that beyond the braindead rhetoric there's nothing of any substance.


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    #85
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Why do the workers have to pay for everything and how many direct and indirect taxes do we need to have.

    The country as a whole is soft and we wiil end up with another fake buble.

    I am glad to see changes coming in to help fight fraud but this will only change if there are proper checkers and people that are prepared to take passes and check for fraudulent ones.

    I have come across time and time again the same characters using their ftp to carry a mate or girl and so on but do catch the odd one where it is a single pass as for themselves only and not a companion pass.

    There are many that get aggressive when you pull them up on this some get so wound up and make absolute fools of themselves and the usuall answer they give is I always use it, the other drivers let me on, the companion pass is in the post, you must love your job etc etc etc

    I hope they speed up the process and can't understand why they can't incorporate the leap card to speed up the process as the technology on the machines is set for that type of card. Changes have to be made for the social card.

    Nothing is ever made simple in Ireland.


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    #86
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,286 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    I hope they speed up the process and can't understand why they can't incorporate the leap card to speed up the process as the technology on the machines is set for that type of card. Changes have to be made for the social card.
    The Public Services Card is able to function in much the same was as a Leap Card.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/public_services_card.html


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    #87
    donegal11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭donegal11


    corktina wrote: »
    Whilst it essential to stamp down on fraud, care should be taken when advocating curtailing free travel as it is effectively a subsidy for the whole system, which would have to be curtailed without it.

    I would guess if there was no travel passes the private operators/CIE would generate more than 70 million. The fact that for 70 euro a head a free travel pass holder gets unlimited travel compared to the actual 6000 private cost. To say that free travel subsidizes the system is a joke and it's the poor honest paying passengers that are subsidizing rich pensioners, fraudsters and the ever growing numbered of disabled/carers with passes the never expire:rolleyes:.


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    #88
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    donegal11 wrote: »
    I would guess if there was no travel passes the private operators/CIE would generate more than 70 million. The fact that for 70 euro a head a free travel pass holder gets unlimited travel compared to the actual 6000 private cost. To say that free travel subsidizes the system is a joke and it's the poor honest paying passengers that are subsidizing rich pensioners, fraudsters and the ever growing numbered of disabled/carers with passes the never expire:rolleyes:.

    That's not the case, without the free passes most of the journeys would not be made, the subsidy would be withdrawn and the services would have to be cut, or the fares increased enormously.
    It's frankly insulting to lump pensioners and the disabled in with fraudsters


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    #89
    donegal11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭donegal11


    corktina wrote: »
    That's not the case, without the free passes most of the journeys would not be made, the subsidy would be withdrawn and the services would have to be cut, or the fares increased enormously.
    It's frankly insulting to lump pensioners and the disabled in with fraudsters

    So free travel holders are putting a strain on the system making unnecessary travel for which the subsidy doesn't cover the actual cost. How long would it take to spend €60-70 on travel or would FTP holders start walking everywhere or never leave the house :confused:.


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    #90
    BuffyBot
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 24,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    Folks, the ins and outs of the the Free Travel Pass are not the actual topic of discussion on this thread. Not every thread about it has to turn into one about who should and should not have one. Back to the OP's topic please and focus a little.


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    #91
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,726 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    corktina wrote: »
    Whilst it essential to stamp down on fraud, care should be taken when advocating curtailing free travel as it is effectively a subsidy for the whole system, which would have to be curtailed without it.

    Except that this thread came about as a result of a notice that a partiuclar small private operator - who get no subsidies, but yet have expanded their services considerably in recent years - is planning a clamp-down.

    It's likely that the Burkes drivers know the names, addresses and family situation of the people who they are planning to take passes off.


This discussion has been closed.
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