Hearthstone Tournament not allowing women to enter.

mrkiscool2 · 03-07-2014 4:18pm

Lyaiera wrote: »

No. I didn't say that. I said every game should have an open tournament and female-only subdivisions are fine because women get treated like crap in the gaming scene. So again, you're making things up to suit yourself.

So, you're going to be sexist against men because sexism against men is fine as long as women aren't being abused? So what if there was a men-only subdivision of all the games? Would that be fine? Or is that too sexist for you?

VinLieger · 03-07-2014 4:18pm

Lyaiera wrote: »

I'm not outing anyone I know. I know a couple of famous people (Hollywood A-List and Professional Sport Elite) in online clans and pro-gamers who hide their identity online so they have privacy. What makes you think I'd out anyone's identity.

If you want to get any confirmation of this go to the One Reason Why hashtag on twitter and google the Streetfighter "rape" case.

That is specific issue in the fighting game scene, do not tarnish every other group with that brush cus its a very sweeping statement to make

tritium · 03-07-2014 4:19pm

Lyaiera wrote: »

Except that didn't happen at all. People, including women in this thread have said that's not on.

But you sum up the prevailing attitude by just making things up to suit yourself.

Yet strangely you weren't so against it a few pages back when you first posted the link about the change of rules.....

Tar.Aldarion · 03-07-2014 4:30pm

The reasoning for having female tournaments, whether valid or not, is that very little women will want to play since there are no women competing at the moment. If they sign up it will be 99 dudes and 1 girl which is thought to be intimidating and they need an extra push into the competitive scene which would be better for them in the long run. They have been seen to enter more tournaments that have all women competitions than those that are mixed.

I think there should be just one tournament however, as I would view it as holding them back and segregating them.

Lyaiera · 03-07-2014 4:31pm

Lyaiera wrote: »

Did they not make all the competitions open to anyone but create a women's division for some? If there's games dudes can't play that's not on.

That's my opinion on it. If you actually read the thread you'd know that, So, you know, keep arguing about how bad the poor men have it in video gaming in general because you're only fooling yourself.

VinLieger · 03-07-2014 4:34pm

Lyaiera wrote: »

That's my opinion on it. If you actually read the thread you'd know that, So, you know, keep arguing about how bad the poor men have it in video gaming in general because you're only fooling yourself.

Seriously stop falling back on that line cus nobody has claimed that once in the entire thread, in fact several times ive admitted that women do have it worse than men quite obviously, but that is no reason to section off a women only tournament.

If anything women only tournaments will create more problems on both sides.

mrkiscool2 · 03-07-2014 4:38pm

Lyaiera wrote: »

That's my opinion on it. If you actually read the thread you'd know that, So, you know, keep arguing about how bad the poor men have it in video gaming in general because you're only fooling yourself.

Well if you read all of our opinions on it as well you would know that no-one has said on here that men have it worse when it comes to video gaming. In fact, I think a lot of us are arguing the fact that having women's-only tournaments is discriminatory towards women more than men!

But since you are losing the argument you have to say that women have it worse than men, and abuse and sexism. All I'm waiting to hear from you now is that "The patriarchy has made it so that men have to abuse women" whilst playing video games. And yes, the streetfighter rape incident was horrendous, but using a single case does not make your argument as valid as you think.

I'd love to see more female pro-gamers, more female devs and better female characters in games (something I think that we are definitely getting) but to play the victim card just isn't on or acceptable anymore.

--LOS-- · 03-07-2014 4:41pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Whats the difference? The fact that its just funny when men are discriminated against but its serious and everyone has to be disgusted when its women being discriminated against shows an obvious problem and disparity exists

No there is no difference of course, I don't like that solution either, that's not the answer.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

The reasoning for having female tournaments, whether valid or not, is that very little women will want to play since there are no women competing at the moment. If they sign up it will be 99 dudes and 1 girl which is thought to be intimidating and they need an extra push into the competitive scene which would be better for them in the long run. They have been seen to enter more tournaments that have all women competitions than those that are mixed.

I think there should be just one tournament however, as I would view it as holding them back and segregating them.

Ye that's a valid point too, but it's mostly the attitude of guys that need to change, all this women can't play games BS, not many women plays games yep, maybe more would be encouraged if they weren't so hated on/if there wasn't such a gender bias.

Cabaal · 03-07-2014 4:42pm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

They want it to be a sport.

To be an acceptable sport the optics dictate that it has to be segregated.

Women and men are not physically equal so physical sports are segregated.

However, video games are not a sport so......

Yeah. Pretty stupid.

Its as much of a sport as Darts is,

In reality the physical differences in a male and females hands and the impact this has on using a keyboard or controller is next to none.

So I call bull**** on their reasoning also

VinLieger · 03-07-2014 4:50pm

Cabaal wrote: »

Its as much of a sport as Darts is,

In reality the physical differences in a male and females hands and the impact this has on using a keyboard or controller is next to none.

So I call bull**** on their reasoning also

I completely agree but I can also understand where their original logic on this came from.

The want to be a legitimate sport and thus copied how legitimate sports operate by separating genders in an attempt to prove its legitimacy.

However they forgot that this is completely new concept and system and that they should have instead tried to break the mold and go with a new system of their own instead of copying systems that are ultimately irrelevant in this context

Grayson · 03-07-2014 4:51pm

Lyaiera wrote: »

I'm not outing anyone I know. I know a couple of famous people (Hollywood A-List and Professional Sport Elite) in online clans and pro-gamers who hide their identity online so they have privacy. What makes you think I'd out anyone's identity.

If you want to get any confirmation of this go to the One Reason Why hashtag on twitter and google the Streetfighter "rape" case.

Apparently the reason the Halo film never got off the ground is because Neill Blomkamp and peter jackson wasted their time playing Nazi Zombies.

looksee · 03-07-2014 5:02pm

How is anyone going to know who is male and who is female?

KungPao · 03-07-2014 5:10pm

Having read through this thread I can confirm I have no idea what most of you are on about.

Lyaiera · 03-07-2014 5:27pm

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

So, you're going to be sexist against men because sexism against men is fine as long as women aren't being abused? So what if there was a men-only subdivision of all the games? Would that be fine? Or is that too sexist for you?

I'd be encouraging a male only tournament if men were a minority of people represented. If you look at other hobbies there are men-only events. I know a few men only stitch and bitches because men are under-represented at that. There are racial minority only game jams because white people are over represented in the game industry. I've seen men only horse riding classes for adults because women are over-represented in adult horse riding lessons.

It's not a man versus woman thing, it's a majority versus minority.

Tar.Aldarion · 03-07-2014 5:44pm

looksee wrote: »

How is anyone going to know who is male and who is female?

It would be in person, unless you are referring to the best starcraft girl, who is transgender

03-07-2014 5:45pm

Starmixed wrote: »

I suppose the women's mini marathon is sexist too?

VinLieger wrote: »

Yes actually men make the effort to compete within the rules set where they have to dress up in a dress or other obviously female attire, they raise the money for charity, run the race, but are not given a medal like the rest of the competitors because they are men

There's a men only one too IIRC

wp_rathead · 03-07-2014 5:53pm

part of our effort to promote e-Sports as a legitimate sports.

I'm just imagining an even nerdier version of Dodgeball

Lyaiera · 03-07-2014 5:55pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

It would be in person, unless you are referring to the best starcraft girl, who is transgender

Seriously? A trans joke?

looksee · 03-07-2014 6:08pm

Panic over, they have changed the rules.

Gatame · 03-07-2014 6:13pm

Does anybody know if Chess is segregated strictly or are women free to enter the male divisions?

Ficheall · 03-07-2014 6:30pm

Gatame wrote: »

Does anybody know if Chess is segregated strictly or are women free to enter the male divisions?

There are open tournaments, and women-only tournaments. There are no tournaments designated to be men-only, though most of them turn out that way...

Shakespeare's Sister · 03-07-2014 7:42pm

Manach wrote: »

The liberal PC crowd are upset, yet again, when some group decides to organise an event that does not confirm to their standards. This is hardly a surprise - people can and do act in ways that are not in accordance to whatever the group-think de jour is.

You could put some thought into things and consider that it's more than it not being "liberal PC" that's of concern to people, as well as you yourself not automatically and blindly loving the idea because it's not "liberal PC".

I understand sports being segregated according to gender, but gaming?

tritium · 03-07-2014 7:58pm

looksee wrote: »

Panic over, they have changed the rules.

Haha yes it looks like they've amended things again. I'd actually contacted them to point out the inconsistency of their previous approach and to be fair they seem to have tweaked things. Might look a bit flip flopping with their attempt at an explanation but at least theyre open to listening.

Interesting that they're running the women only event in parallel with the open to all. I assume it means that women just pick which one they're most comfortable with

Starmixed · 03-07-2014 10:29pm

bluewolf wrote: »

There's a men only one too IIRC

Women are allowed to join the arc men's mini marathon without dressing as men

DeVore · 03-07-2014 10:48pm

A Tekken Tag 2 tournie has been added to the All Allowed list now. So, at least this way men are not excluded from any tournies either.
Still think this has been a pile of doodoo but fine, whatever. Its silly to create division where there isn't any need. If there is abuse of female players going on, then the real solution is strip the offenders of their status/license/standings. Abuse from "fans" is just something all professionals have to put up with (they SHOULDNT have to, but all genders do). Its already covered by laws anyway, invoke them.

Fighting bias with bias is like fighting fire with fire. Its actually a very poor idea in practise.

mrkiscool2 · 04-07-2014 5:18am

Lyaiera wrote: »

I'd be encouraging a male only tournament if men were a minority of people represented. If you look at other hobbies there are men-only events. I know a few men only stitch and bitches because men are under-represented at that. There are racial minority only game jams because white people are over represented in the game industry. I've seen men only horse riding classes for adults because women are over-represented in adult horse riding lessons.

It's not a man versus woman thing, it's a majority versus minority.

So by your logic we should have male-only birthing classes, or men-only domestic shelters and men-only "let's make ourselves the powers when it comes to sex again" groups. I don't think you'd agree with the first two, the final one is just to make fun of how stupid you sound.

Also, the point you make about male-only riding groups. Here's the thing, as a man, I find that sexist. SHOCK HORROR! Why is it that men can accept that something is sexist even if it favours men but women find things that favour women not sexist? Bizarre right?

Look, you got what you wanted. Stop fcuking complaining! Every single point you've made here makes you look like the typical feminist who basically believes women deserve equality yet want special privileges. You see the irony there right? You can't have it both ways! It's one or the other!

Grayson · 04-07-2014 9:41am

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

The reasoning for having female tournaments, whether valid or not, is that very little women will want to play since there are no women competing at the moment. If they sign up it will be 99 dudes and 1 girl which is thought to be intimidating and they need an extra push into the competitive scene which would be better for them in the long run. They have been seen to enter more tournaments that have all women competitions than those that are mixed.

I think there should be just one tournament however, as I would view it as holding them back and segregating them.

I would imagine that competing at the top level is pretty intimidating anyway. It'd be just patronising to create a separate league in case they couldn't handle the pressure.

Now, at that level everyone should be professional. Yeah, a certain about of trash talk beforehand, but nothing too sexual. If anyone crosses the line, action should be taken.

UCDVet · 04-07-2014 10:34am

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

They want it to be a sport.

To be an acceptable sport the optics dictate that it has to be segregated.

Women and men are not physically equal so physical sports are segregated.

However, video games are not a sport so......

Yeah. Pretty stupid.

EDIT - nevermind, I see that others have brought up the hypocrisy of chess tournaments. While also not physical/not a sport, chess tournaments come in two forms - open to everyone and open to just women. Naturally, since it only limits male players, nobody has a problem with this.

Hearthstone Tournament not allowing women to enter.

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