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Are we a nation of idiots?

2

Comments

  • #52
    Agent Smith
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 21,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Agent Smith


    Only in Cork


  • #53
    BMMachine
    Site Banned Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭BMMachine


    Valetta wrote: »
    I haven't ignored anything you have said, if that is what you are implying.

    you haven't addressed it either so whats your point?
    Awkward Badger wrote:
    You don't seem to have much respect for anyone by the sounds of it. No respect for anyone who ignores what you're saying in favour of sniping while saying you have no respect for the thoughts and opinions of those who watch Mrs Brown and just calling them idiots.

    oh no, I do alright. and I'm not calling them idiots, unless you think Im calling my own parents idiots. there are layers and depth to everything, try to see past what you want to see


  • #54
    paulbok
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,988 ✭✭✭paulbok


    you didn't just go and compare The Big Bang Theory & Geordie Shores did you?


  • #55
    Awkward Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Awkward Badger


    BMMachine wrote: »
    oh no, I do alright. and I'm not calling them idiots, unless you think Im calling my own parents idiots. there are layers and depth to everything, try to see past what you want to see

    I'm not sure I'm seeing what I want to see here. I see a thread titled "Are we a nation of idiots" and the basis for asking it is because of the popularity of Mrs Browns Boys and other comedies you feel are garbage. And you've stated you have no respect for the thoughts or opinions of those "drowning" in such low brow garbage.


  • #56
    fonecrusher1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,702 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    Heer Miss Brown is a fookin screem so it is. Yiz foodlz:mad:, I went ta see wit da lads its mad crac fun. We braut a load a cans in wit us. savage crac.:pac:

    Sur its only bleeeeeedin savage yiz fooolzzs.


  • #57
    BMMachine
    Site Banned Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭BMMachine


    Awkward Badger wrote: »
    I'm not sure I'm seeing what I want to see here. I see a thread titled "Are we a nation of idiots" and the basis for asking it is because of the popularity of Mrs Browns Boys and other comedies you feel are garbage. And you've stated you have no respect for the thoughts or opinions of those "drowning" in such low brow garbage.

    its also the popularity of other low brow garbage culture. Now magazine, tabloids and other such wastes of space fall into this too. I thought I had spelled that out in my opening post here "The thing is, that shlock is only the latest in the long line of crap entertainment we have ingested over the years. Bad RTE talent shows, bad lowbrow reality shows (who remembers Fade Street), bad comedy and just a set of low low standards as to what entertainment and culture is." but I'm not sure if you read that or are just ignoring it

    I'm asking if we are a nation of idiots based on our ingestion of so much low brow stuff - "I know its hard to avoid, just how this lowbrow pop culture seeps in from every crevice". What I have received in replies has been mostly "but other countries do it" and "its not garbage because I potentially like some of the stuff you are talking about" and "how dare you not respect other peoples opinions based on your own prejudice of peoples tastes". There has been some good and meaningful replies which ask more questions again and perhaps more of that is needed but in hoping for that, maybe my question is being answered in the quality on display here.


  • #58
    Tiddlypeeps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭Tiddlypeeps


    BMMachine wrote: »
    no, its been around for 10+ years and has been the same shtick for that time too. Father Ted happened to have 2 very good writers behind it and the brilliantly cast Dermot Morgan and lasted exactly 3 seasons. Whereas Ted is the apex of sitcoms, Mrs Brown is the cash in 'fukit these people will swallow anything' kind of comedy. It has taken a long time for it to get to this point and its going to burn out extremely fast now that its popular. It will be an embarrassing footnote in Irish comedy while Ted will go down as the legend it deserves to be

    Ms.Brown irritates the heck out of me so I don't like or watch it, but I wouldn't call anyone that does an idiot. I watch plenty of "low brow" slap stick stuff, Fr.Ted included so I'd be a hypocrite to judge. You're criteria for what is a high enough standard to be worthy of consumption is totally arbitrary, you don't put any objective conditions on it other than "it's not what I like so it's bad".

    Your implication that this is a race to the bottom is also demonstrably untrue. Just look back to when cinema and TV first became popular, you have Charlie Chaplin, Laurel and Hardy and later on shows like I Love Lucy, all very slapstick and very low brow and also all from over half a century ago. People have always found that kind of thing funny.

    If you wanna argue that those a just because people were only learning how to do cinema and TV then look back to the 70's and 80's where you have tremendously popular shows like Monthy Pythons flying circus and A bit of Fry and Laury. Nobody who watches those shows today would be considered dim witted, but back in the day there were likely people like you judging the people who watch them as idiots.

    You seem to have a pretty serious superiority complex, it's got to be fairly lonely and isolating all the way up there on that horse.


  • #59
    Omackeral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Mrs. Browne's Boys is basically a 60 year old man from Finglas saying f*ck and b*llox over and over while wearing a granny dress and falling down on occasion.


  • #60
    BMMachine
    Site Banned Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭BMMachine


    Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

    You seem to have a pretty serious superiority complex, it's got to be fairly lonely and isolating all the way up there on that horse.

    but what is wrong with having high standards?


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  • #61
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,180 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Mrs. Browne's Boys is basically a 60 year old man from Finglas saying f*ck and b*llox over and over while wearing a granny dress and falling down on occasion.

    I know. It's wonderful!! :(


  • #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Mrs. Browne's Boys is basically a 60 year old man from Finglas saying f*ck and b*llox over and over while wearing a granny dress and falling down on occasion.

    And Laurel and Hardy was basically a stupid man and an obese man falling down and making fools of themselves.

    The difference is time.


  • #63
    Bipolar Joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    The phrase "Taste is subjective" is like the phrase "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion." Some people have fucking stupid opinions. David Icke thinks lizard shape shifters rule the world. That is a stupid opinion and anyone who believes it is a moron.

    I can't help but feel a little superior to people with crap taste, not that I have the greatest. If you think [Place] Shore is worthwhile television, even if you don't watch it, you are an idiot. If you think The Bounty Hunter, with Jennifer Aniston and Gerard Butler, is a good movie, you have bad taste and should stop it.


  • #64
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,180 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Candie wrote: »
    And Laurel and Hardy was basically a stupid man and an obese man falling down and making fools of themselves.

    The difference is time.

    Correct. Mr. Bean is a stupidly intelligent, or possibly intelligently stupid, and extremely English man making a gowl of himself. And it is side-splittingly funny! :):):)


  • #65
    whupdedo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭whupdedo


    Candie wrote: »
    I dunno, Jehan Adam, Parameshvara, Damodara, Georg Von Pueurbach and Ali Qushji .

    Isn't Google great :D


  • #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bipolar Joe wrote: »
    The phrase "Taste is subjective" is like the phrase "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion." Some people have fucking stupid opinions. David Icke thinks lizard shape shifters rule the world. That is a stupid opinion and anyone who believes it is a moron.

    I can't help but feel a little superior to people with crap taste, not that I have the greatest. If you think [Place] Shore is worthwhile television, even if you don't watch it, you are an idiot. If you think The Bounty Hunter, with Jennifer Aniston and Gerard Butler, is a good movie, you have bad taste and should stop it.

    See. I don't think anyone thinks '- shore' is worthwhile. People watch it because they want to feel superior (like you) or to be mindlessly entertained for a while. No one thinks it's high-brow.

    And stupid opinions are just that - individual opinion. The daft holders of those opinions are every bit as entitled to hold them as you are entitled to hold the view that you're superior to Jennifer Aniston fans, or whatever.

    All culture serves a purpose, even the low brow stuff.


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  • #67
    Agricola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    Nothing against Brendan O' Carroll, fair play to him for sticking with it for donkeys years and is now laughing all the way to the bank. But theres no comparison with Fr.Ted or even Mr Bean. I think he'd be the first to acknowledge that himself privately. He probably doesnt know what the hell is going on, but hes going to ride that wave while it lasts, and who wouldnt!


  • #68
    Pumpkinseeds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    I really don't get why mrs Browns boys is so popular. It's comedy based on an obnoxious skanky old tranny that most of us would stick in a cheap retirement home somewhere and suppress the memory of it's existence, if it were related to us.


  • #69
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,180 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Pumpkinseeds wrote: »
    I really don't get why mrs Browns boys is so popular. It's comedy based on an obnoxious skanky old tranny that most of us would stick in a cheap retirement home somewhere and suppress the memory of it's existence, if it were related to us.

    The Force is strong in this one! :)


  • #70
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Pumpkinseeds wrote: »
    I really don't get why mrs Browns boys is so popular. It's comedy based on an obnoxious skanky old tranny that most of us would stick in a cheap retirement home somewhere and suppress the memory of it's existence, if it were related to us.

    This might apply to Father Ted too.:D


  • #71
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,180 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    catallus wrote: »
    This might apply to Father Ted too.:D

    Feck off!!


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  • #72
    Lux23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    This stuff is for kids and kids are idiots.


  • #73
    Pumpkinseeds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    Just to be clear it's the character and not transvestites that I don't like:)


  • #74
    magma69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭magma69


    Maybe! I think the bigger problem are the ones with an inferiority complex that are completely preoccupied with how we are perceived as a nation than the idiots residing here though.

    Constant threads of "Are we Irish....*something negative*"


  • #75
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Pumpkinseeds wrote: »
    I really don't get why mrs Browns boys is so popular.

    It's popular because people relate to the language, the closeness of the family unit, the familiarity of the background of the characters and the simplicity of the storyline.

    Nobody watches it for intellectual stimulation, they watch it because it's easy. Which is the same reason why I love glossy magazines. I don't always want to read something that takes effort or engagement.

    I don't like it myself, but I see no reason to assume that people who enjoy it for a half hour are stupid or lacking in taste generally.


  • #76
    Pumpkinseeds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    Candie wrote: »
    It's popular because people relate to the language, the closeness of the family unit, the familiarity of the background of the characters and the simplicity of the storyline.

    Nobody watches it for intellectual stimulation, they watch it because it's easy. Which is the same reason why I love glossy magazines. I don't always want to read something that takes effort or engagement.

    I don't like it myself, but I see no reason to assume that people who enjoy it for a half hour are stupid or lacking in taste generally.

    I think you're giving it's viewers far too much credit:P


  • #77
    urabell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭urabell


    I know people have different taste but you'd want to be mentally ill to watch Mrs Brown


  • #78
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,180 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Lux23 wrote: »
    This stuff is for kids and kids are idiots.

    Count me in! :)


  • #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Pumpkinseeds wrote: »
    I think you're giving it's viewers far too much credit:P

    It's not about giving anyone undeserved credit, anymore than someone deserves or doesn't deserve credit for watching Sky Arts 24/7.

    It just is what it is. Very light entertainment that's popular enough with a certain audience, and it really doesn't need deconstructing or concepts of worthiness applied to it. People enjoy it for what it is and there's nothing inherently wrong with that.


  • #80
    Pumpkinseeds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    Candie wrote: »
    It's not about giving anyone undeserved credit, anymore than someone deserves or doesn't deserve credit for watching Sky Arts 24/7.

    It just is what it is. Very light entertainment that's popular enough with a certain audience, and it really doesn't need deconstructing or concepts of worthiness applied to it. People enjoy it for what it is and there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

    I'm only half serious Candie. I can't stand the guy or his comedy but so far as other peoples preferences are concerned, so long as it doesn't involve harm to animals or children, I pretty much don't care:D


  • #81
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,353 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    A nation of whatnow? I don't understand the question.


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  • #82
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    endacl wrote: »
    A nation of whatnow? I don't understand the question.

    Everyone who doesn't share the OPs superior taste is an eejit.


  • #83
    BMMachine
    Site Banned Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭BMMachine


    Candie wrote: »
    Everyone who doesn't share the OPs superior taste is an eejit.

    nope.

    if you repeatedly engross yourself in lowbrow garbage culture, then you are an eejit.
    if you set the bar low for yourself, then you are an eejit.


  • #84
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    Candie wrote: »
    Everyone who doesn't share the OPs superior taste is an eejit.

    Oh, right. I was a bit lost too. I thought this was going to be about that brilliant cinematic oeuvre, Mrs Browns Boys, D'movie. Loads of people really like it.


  • #85
    SimonTemplar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    Mrs Brown's Boys is just as popular in the UK.


  • #86
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BMMachine wrote: »
    nope.

    if you repeatedly engross yourself in lowbrow garbage culture, then you are an eejit.
    if you set the bar low for yourself, then you are an eejit.

    But the problem is you appointed yourself the judge of what constitutes low brow, and engaged in hyperbole about the tastes of people who consume and enjoy things you consider inferior.

    That's fine and everything, and while you can certainly judge peoples tastes in culture against your own, you don't get to judge the people themselves on the back of it.


  • #87
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    Candie wrote: »
    But the problem is you appointed yourself the judge of what constitutes low brow, and engaged in hyperbole about the tastes of people who consume and enjoy things you consider inferior.

    That's fine and everything, and while you can certainly judge peoples tastes in culture against your own, you don't get to judge the people themselves on the back of it.

    Do you not have a couch to be fondling?? :D


  • #88
    BMMachine
    Site Banned Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭BMMachine


    Candie wrote: »
    But the problem is you appointed yourself the judge of what constitutes low brow, and engaged in hyperbole about the tastes of people who consume and enjoy things you consider inferior.

    That's fine and everything, and while you can certainly judge peoples tastes in culture against your own, you don't get to judge the people themselves on the back of it.

    and why not? there are various shades of grey I agree but I have met people who are fully engrossed in what I would consider bad taste and guess what, they were eejits!
    There are patterns to how people talk, act and behave and you often find the same type of people say the exact same things and act in the exact same way. This goes for people with good taste too, I know I can immediately relate to someone who is say a Chris Morris fan but at the same time, I know their tastes will be different to mine in a lot of areas, shades of grey. But if someone is like, a hardcore big bang theory fan and loves twilight, then yeah, alarm bells ring but you still give them a chance and yes, they can surprise you.

    if you are a good, intelligent person than that will reveal itself anyway, no matter what you like, but in most cases, those people like good things :) just the same way that an eejit almost always likes the crap. If you like all the sh1te side of life and engross yourself in it and don't like being judged by others than in my mind, you should be judging yourself and upping your game, not dragging others down with you because you feel uncomfortable about liking nonsense.
    there seems to be a wave of anti-intellectualism and a paranoia against 'smart' people. you can see it all over the net "TL,DR", various memes and other social media sites. If you dare sound smart, then there will always be someone jealous of this to try and reel you back in. think I'm wrong? heres an example from this thread:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91082516&postcount=65


  • #89
    Ted_YNWA
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,799 ✭✭✭✭Ted_YNWA


    BMMachine wrote: »
    nope.

    if you repeatedly engross yourself in lowbrow garbage culture, then you are an eejit.
    if you set the bar low for yourself, then you are an eejit.

    That's nice.


  • #90
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    What the hell is the OP's problem with eejits anyways?

    If people want to be eejits then let them! Borderline racist, is what it is.


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  • #91
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Mrs Brown's Boys is pretty base humour, but the likes of Transformers isn't exactly the most intellectually stimulating piece of cinema ever produced either, so can the same thing not be said when that garbage is popular? Oooh, fancy graphics and flashy lights – idiots! No?


  • #92
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BMMachine wrote: »
    and why not? there are various shades of grey I agree but I have met people who are fully engrossed in what I would consider bad taste and guess what, they were eejits!
    There are patterns to how people talk, act and behave and you often find the same type of people say the exact same things and act in the exact same way. This goes for people with good taste too, I know I can immediately relate to someone who is say a Chris Morris fan but at the same time, I know their tastes will be different to mine in a lot of areas, shades of grey. But if someone is like, a hardcore big bang theory fan and loves twilight, then yeah, alarm bells ring but you still give them a chance and yes, they can surprise you.

    if you are a good, intelligent person than that will reveal itself anyway, no matter what you like, but in most cases, those people like good things :) just the same way that an eejit almost always likes the crap. If you like all the sh1te side of life and engross yourself in it and don't like being judged by others than in my mind, you should be judging yourself and upping your game, not dragging others down with you because you feel uncomfortable about liking nonsense.
    there seems to be a wave of anti-intellectualism and a paranoia against 'smart' people. you can see it all over the net "TL,DR", various memes and other social media sites. If you dare sound smart, then there will always be someone jealous of this to try and reel you back in. think I'm wrong? heres an example from this thread:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91082516&postcount=65

    I guess we all set our own criteria on what constitutes an eejit or idiot.

    For me it's people who don't capitalise.

    Excuse me, I've a couch to stroke.


  • #93
    Duck's hoop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭Duck's hoop


    BMMachine wrote: »
    nope.

    if you repeatedly engross yourself in lowbrow garbage culture, then you are an eejit.
    if you set the bar low for yourself, then you are an eejit.

    Well you've answered your own question then.

    Fwiw I think your repeated use of 'lowbrow' is casting yourself in poor light. You could be taken for a supercilious snob.

    Please excuse the tautology.


  • #94
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    The people for whom I feel really sorry, are those who have little to which to aspire, such that they need to elevate their own opinions of themselves by berating other people's personal choices.


  • #95
    pqdvdplayer
    Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭pqdvdplayer


    BMMachine wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/movies/movie-news/mrs-browns-boys-dmovie-takes-record-breaking-102m-at-the-irish-box-office-30394432.html

    I want to say no. We have a great education system, we have provided culture with soul and depth to the world and produced some of the best artists in their generation.
    But when I see this it really gets me thinking, why such low standards? We let politicians get away with f**king over entire generations and say "ah yeah" as if that slight sarcasm is what gives us a national identity. We pay extortionate amounts for things like transport and electricity and there is little we seem to be able to do about that and when push comes to shove, we feed minds on diets of filtered garbage like the aforementioned Mrs. Browns Boys.

    The thing is, that shlock is only the latest in the long line of crap entertainment we have ingested over the years. Bad RTE talent shows, bad lowbrow reality shows (who remembers Fade Street), bad comedy and just a set of low low standards as to what entertainment and culture is. "Oh you can't sing or dance? Guess you are of no value. But wait, maybe we can stick you on a reality show because you seem like the kind of bellend that idiots would tune it to watch and complain about with their mates"

    Jedward was an accepted thing.

    There is a saying, you are what you eat and in a lot of ways thats true. You eat crap? you become crap. Your mind takes in crap? well guess what, those outward thoughts, yes, those opinions ;) become crap. I know its hard to avoid, just how this lowbrow pop culture seeps in from every crevice and the foreign imports, which seem infinite at this stage (from The Big Bang Theory to Geordie Shore) certainly don't help. But please, stop thinking that garbage is acceptable for your mind. There are other options out there, you dont have to watch, listen to or read the most available material. If the McDonalds is 5 minutes away and the farmers market is 10, do you eat at the McDonalds every day?

    We are pussies compared to some other countries. We are afraid to stand up for ourselves, very apologetic and too forgiving towards the government. But we are not as uninformed as some other countries like USA and the UK where people know f**k all about anything.


  • #96
    comongethappy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    pqdvdplayer wrote: »
    we are not as uninformed as some other countries like USA and the UK where people know f**k all about anything.

    "Sweeping statement makes poster look like idiot"

    (Is what the newspaper headlines would say).


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  • #97
    snaphook
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭snaphook


    It's a very useful social filter.

    If someone likes Mrs Brown's Boys then I will make a mental note to avoid them.

    So in a way the show provides a positive for me.


  • #98
    Bipolar Joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    pqdvdplayer wrote: »
    We are pussies compared to some other countries. We are afraid to stand up for ourselves, very apologetic and too forgiving towards the government. But we are not as uninformed as some other countries like USA and the UK where people know f**k all about anything.

    I thought twelve year olds weren't allowed in After Hours.


  • #99
    BMMachine
    Site Banned Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭BMMachine


    Bipolar Joe wrote: »
    I thought twelve year olds weren't allowed in After Hours.

    no need to insult the guy for expressing an opinion. sure it might be wrong or w/e so talk about that


  • #100
    average hero
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭average hero


    I think we have some of the greatest minds in the world! Some great people came from this little country and I think we punch above our weight in a number of different spheres, be it sport, culture, arts, commerce etc.

    But I do agree with you OP insofar as the people who perhaps aren't as 'aware' or have a thirst for knowledge etc can be dire altogether. We have a culture of 'ah it'll be grand' and 'that'll do' and I think that this contributes to a certain degree. As discussed in another thread, we can be very childish as a nation (such as getting a rake of money during the Celtic Tiger and squandering most of it). Again, I think this could lead you to think we are a nation of idiots but I don't buy into it. It's more of a culture thing.

    Personally I think that a lot of people in Ireland are quite intelligent, but there are a majority that would be sucked into the X Factor, ready made meals, populist media thing. Interestingly, I think that most AH'ers on here are the former.


  • #101
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    In fairness, hasn't the trend over the past century or so been to collapse any distinction between high and low culture and shift the site of the creation of meaning from the point of creation to the point of consumption?

    Because that's what I tell myself when I'm watching Eastenders, anyway


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