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The army, an aid to the civil powers?

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    #32
    T-Boner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭T-Boner


    How about a garda presence with an army mobil security group?.

    I'm sure the army is well up to operating more aggressive checkpoints than the garda. So have a garda presence operating alongside the army with random checkpoints. But actively searching car's and doing identity checks on the occupants and not just checking for road tax.

    A highly mobil army/garda security group could also throw up a ring of steel very quickly and cordon off whole area's for vehicle/person checks when there's a murder.


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    #33
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    T-Boner wrote:
    How about a garda presence with an army mobil security group?.

    I'm sure the army is well up to operating more aggressive checkpoints than the garda. So have a garda presence operating alongside the army with random checkpoints. But actively searching car's and doing identity checks on the occupants and not just checking for road tax.

    A highly mobil army/garda security group could also throw up a ring of steel very quickly and cordon off whole area's for vehicle/person checks when there's a murder.
    How do you think the residents in Limerick would react to army checkpoints and random searches on their vehicles?

    Not to mention that it's the police's job...

    How about adequately resourcing the Gardai?
    Introducing 40+ year sentences for shooting a Garda?
    25+ year sentences for using a gun in the commission of other specified crimes?
    And how about the judges actually IMPOSE the f*cking penalties?

    The army should only be used when the security of the state is under threat (eg. paramilitaries aiming to overthrow it). The criminals are just after money and if someone gets in the way, then they get shot. That's not the same as them actively attacking the state.

    The gangs aren't sh*tting themselves because of guns... The rival gangs have more guns than the Gardai, yet it doesn't deter them from having 'wars'. If they thought that they would (a) be caught, (b) be sentenced to 40 years, (c) not have a TV, radio etc., in their cell, and (d) have no chance of getting out -- THEN maybe they'd think twice about shooting a Garda.


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    #34
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    DaveMcG wrote:
    How do you think the residents in Limerick would react to army checkpoints and random searches on their vehicles?

    Not to mention that it's the police's job...

    How about adequately resourcing the Gardai?
    Introducing 40+ year sentences for shooting a Garda?
    25+ year sentences for using a gun in the commission of other specified crimes?
    And how about the judges actually IMPOSE the f*cking penalties?

    The army should only be used when the security of the state is under threat (eg. paramilitaries aiming to overthrow it). The criminals are just after money and if someone gets in the way, then they get shot. That's not the same as them actively attacking the state.

    The gangs aren't sh*tting themselves because of guns... The rival gangs have more guns than the Gardai, yet it doesn't deter them from having 'wars'. If they thought that they would (a) be caught, (b) be sentenced to 40 years, (c) not have a TV, radio etc., in their cell, and (d) have no chance of getting out -- THEN maybe they'd think twice about shooting a Garda.


    Back in the early 90's there was an army/garda 'ring of steel' around Dublin when there was a loyalist threat against the republic with random vehicle searches.

    Like you I'm all for giving the police more powers to tackle crime, but I think in the intrim giving consideration to the defence forces enforcing the garda presence on our streets is worthy of consideration.

    It would only be a stop gap measure I'm sure (I'd hope).


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    #35
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    T-Boner wrote:
    How about a garda presence with an army mobil security group?.

    I'm sure the army is well up to operating more aggressive checkpoints than the garda. So have a garda presence operating alongside the army with random checkpoints. But actively searching car's and doing identity checks on the occupants and not just checking for road tax.

    A highly mobil army/garda security group could also throw up a ring of steel very quickly and cordon off whole area's for vehicle/person checks when there's a murder.


    I agree with most things you said. But I'd sincerely hope it would only be an intrim measure while laws are put in place to re-enforce the cops on our streets and a complete overhaul of our justice system.


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    #36
    timmywex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭timmywex


    my 2cents:

    a role of the army is as an aid to civil power, now, walking the streets would be doing this, they do it in France for one because i remember seeing them in train stations during the summer, they escort the security vans, once again, an aid, they do some checkpoints with the guards, i think they just dont want to admit they(gardai) are gettin help from the army. It makes them look bad


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    #37
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Give the Gardai more resources. It ain't no co-incidence that 85% of few hundred or so gun murders in last 10 years remained unsolved and before anyone says it, not all of the few hundred assassins have been popped by their rivals!!
    And as said, tackle the courts system, more prison places and where judges actually jail offenders with real sentences.

    Sealing off areas won't work, gangsters are not confined to traditional spots. A siege mentality will not go down well in Stillorgan or Dundrum :D


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    #38
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Mairt wrote:
    Back in the early 90's there was an army/garda 'ring of steel' around Dublin when there was a loyalist threat against the republic with random vehicle searches.

    That's fair enough (and encouraged) when there's a threat against the state and the citizens, but for dealing with mere criminals it's unnecessary.

    I don't think that there's much to be gained from rolling out the army to tackle crime. Might as well have them pursuing joyriders while we're at it!


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    #39
    An Citeog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,096 ✭✭✭An Citeog


    T-Boner wrote:
    I'm sure the army is well up to operating more aggressive checkpoints than the garda. So have a garda presence operating alongside the army with random checkpoints. But actively searching car's and doing identity checks on the occupants and not just checking for road tax.

    Yeah, because we don't have enough traffic problems already!

    The key to tackling crime, particularly gangland crime is in the judicial system. All the work that's put in to catching criminals, building cases etc is all leading up to one thing: the criminal being given a custodial sentence. There's no point in arming the gardaí or getting the army involved if the real problem lies with the courts and more specifically, the leniency of judges. This is a problem that needs to be addressed and urgently. If it's a case of there not being enough prison spaces, then we need to build more prisons. Quite simplistic you might say but nothing else seems to be working.

    All charges related to gang crime should be brought before the Special Criminal Court. The difference between this court and the Central Criminal Court (for those of you who don't know) is that the case is heard by a panel of 3 high court judges, rather than the typical judge and jury. The purpose of this is to stop subversive organisations (eg. criminal gangs or paramilitary organisations) from being able to influence those on the jury through whatever means.


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    #40
    Poccington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Poccington


    Gabrielle Faithful Chemist wrote:
    Army Ranger Wing would be a good unit to deploy to aid the gardaí:

    http://www.military.ie/army/ranger/index.htm

    They are trained in urban areas:

    Any Recruit in the DF will cover fighting in urban areas in their training. It's not just specific to the lads in the Wing.


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    #41
    Orange69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Orange69


    I don't understand why the government wont implement a much harsher penal system...?

    Why the fcuk is Ireland so soft on crime??


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    #42
    eroo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    some of the ****e here is frightening.'bring in the Rangers','army patrols'!!wtf!!hahaha,do you think the SAS would be patrolling the East End in London?not a chance.the army have their own roles that are completely different.this is just the w*ankers in opposition(govt) hyping things up to make them look worse than they are.the Gardai have been dealing with things like this for years,like in '03 when things were bad in Limerick,ERU and Gardai calmed it down within weeks.give the Gardai support and resources and they can seriously tackle the gangs...


    hahaha,seriously the Ranger Wing patrolling the streets,has to be one of funniest things ive ever heard,as well as one of the worst suggestions ive ever heard!

    good night folks,
    eroo


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    #43
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Good night eroo!


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