Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

2013 SOCIAL WELFARE AND PENSIONS BILL 2013

Options
  • 09-11-2013 8:23pm
    #1
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭


    Recovery of certain benefits and assistance in Personal Injury Awards

    This is a enquiry regarding changes in personal injury awards and Joan Burtons changes to the
    SOCIAL WELFARE AND PENSIONS BILL 2013 following the budget

    Specifically Recovery of certain benefits and assistance in Personal Injury Awards - Section 13. of the Bill

    See

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2013/10113/b10113d.pdf

    Am I right in correctly interpreting that all relevant ( or some? ) awards will be reduced by the amounts of welfare benefits received by the injured party

    There appears to be an ambiguous section concerning awards exceeding benefit received not being affected. Though I am unsure about this.

    "Reduction of compensation payment to injured person
    343S. (1) A compensator who pays an amount equal to the total amount of the recoverable benefits to the Minister in accordance with section 343R
    may reduce the relevant compensation payment payable to the injured person by that amount and shall notify the injured person accordingly. 35
    (2) The compensation payment, other than the relevant compensation payment, payable by a compensator to an injured person shall not be reduced by the compensator where the total amount of the recoverable benefits exceeds the amount of the relevant compensation payment payable to an injured person"

    The other question is what is the effective date if this legislation as amended? That does not appear to be clear.

    All interpretations appreciated.


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    gozunda wrote: »
    Recovery of certain benefits and assistance in Personal Injury Awards

    This is a enquiry regarding changes in personal injury awards and Joan Burtons changes to the
    SOCIAL WELFARE AND PENSIONS BILL 2013 following the budget

    Specifically Recovery of certain benefits and assistance in Personal Injury Awards - Section 13. of the Bill

    See

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2013/10113/b10113d.pdf

    Am I right in correctly interpreting that all relevant ( or some? ) awards will be reduced by the amounts of welfare benefits received by the injured party

    There appears to be an ambiguous section concerning awards exceeding benefit received not being affected. Though I am unsure about this.

    "Reduction of compensation payment to injured person
    343S. (1) A compensator who pays an amount equal to the total amount of the recoverable benefits to the Minister in accordance with section 343R
    may reduce the relevant compensation payment payable to the injured person by that amount and shall notify the injured person accordingly. 35
    (2) The compensation payment, other than the relevant compensation payment, payable by a compensator to an injured person shall not be reduced by the compensator where the total amount of the recoverable benefits exceeds the amount of the relevant compensation payment payable to an injured person"

    The other question is what is the effective date if this legislation as amended? That does not appear to be clear.

    All interpretations appreciated.

    My quick reading of this is that like the hospital costs in motor incidents, which are recoverable, this seems to say any benefit paid because if a incident that leads to an award allows the minister to reclaim those payments. But will need to read it in more detail. It will only effect awards after the commencement of the Act, the relevant section is to be commenced by ministerial order.


  • Options
    #3
    coathanger
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭coathanger


    gozunda wrote: »
    Recovery of certain benefits and assistance in Personal Injury Awards

    This is a enquiry regarding changes in personal injury awards and Joan Burtons changes to the
    SOCIAL WELFARE AND PENSIONS BILL 2013 following the budget

    Specifically Recovery of certain benefits and assistance in Personal Injury Awards - Section 13. of the Bill

    See

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2013/10113/b10113d.pdf

    Am I right in correctly interpreting that all relevant ( or some? ) awards will be reduced by the amounts of welfare benefits received by the injured party

    There appears to be an ambiguous section concerning awards exceeding benefit received not being affected. Though I am unsure about this.

    "Reduction of compensation payment to injured person
    343S. (1) A compensator who pays an amount equal to the total amount of the recoverable benefits to the Minister in accordance with section 343R
    may reduce the relevant compensation payment payable to the injured person by that amount and shall notify the injured person accordingly. 35
    (2) The compensation payment, other than the relevant compensation payment, payable by a compensator to an injured person shall not be reduced by the compensator where the total amount of the recoverable benefits exceeds the amount of the relevant compensation payment payable to an injured person"

    The other question is what is the effective date if this legislation as amended? That does not appear to be clear.

    All interpretations appreciated.


    What would happen,if the insurance company paid the injured party compensation & did not include loss of earnings in the payout so as to avoid having to pay Social Welfare "Recoverable Benefits " & instead paid the injured party a higher amount by splitting the amount of recoverable benefits money between themselves & the injured party.Does Social welfare have recourse to the injured party for the recoverable benefits amount?


  • Options
    #4
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,006 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    coathanger wrote: »
    What would happen,if the insurance company paid the injured party compensation & did not include loss of earnings in the payout so as to avoid having to pay Social Welfare "Recoverable Benefits " & instead paid the injured party a higher amount by splitting the amount of recoverable benefits money between themselves & the injured party.Does Social welfare have recourse to the injured party for the recoverable benefits amount?

    I work for the Department albeit not directly in recovering benefits. The Dept is working on the basis that it can recover from your award the amount of any benefits that it payed out arising from the relevant injury.

    I would imagine that if an insurer did as you said then there could be issues of evasion and/or fraud going on in their behaviour.


  • Options
    #5
    coathanger
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭coathanger


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    I work for the Department albeit not directly in recovering benefits. The Dept is working on the basis that it can recover from your award the amount of any benefits that it payed out arising from the relevant injury.

    I would imagine that if an insurer did as you said then there could be issues of evasion and/or fraud going on in their behaviour.

    Thanks for your response,could they try & recover monies from the injured party,do u think?


  • Options
    #6
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,006 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    coathanger wrote: »
    Thanks for your response,could they try & recover monies from the injured party,do u think?

    They are, yes.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    coathanger
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭coathanger


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    They are, yes.


    What if their barrister said that they cant come after the injured party?


  • Options
    #8
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,006 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    coathanger wrote: »
    What if their barrister said that they cant come after the injured party?

    They'd want to tell it to a judge, I guess :)


  • Options
    #9
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #10
    coathanger
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭coathanger


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Saw this on Citizens information website."this may help injured parties.
    "Recovery of personal injury-related benefits and assistance

    From 1 August 2014, under the Recovery of Certain Benefits and Assistance (RBA) Scheme the Department of Social Protection can recover the value of certain illness-related social welfare payments from compensation awards made following non-fatal personal injuries claims. The value of the social welfare payments are recovered from the compensator and not from the injured person who is getting a social welfare payment.


  • Options
    #11
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    I can see cases where it would not be economically viable for someone on SW to claim compensation.

    Only if there was no claim for pain and suffering.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement