Judge calls handbag-snatching "innocent"

omahaid · 12-10-2012 11:26pm

NoQuarter wrote: »

You guys are taking a legal term and twisting it into something its not. The innocent part is in relation to a "robbery" as defined in the theft and fraud offences act. Its requires violence. The accused was trying to steal which is theft. So its just a legal technicality you guys are confusing.

The judge didnt mean that the accused was completely innocent.

But sure dont let me get in the way of a good judicial bashing thread.

I think you have forgotten the quote from the OP, here it is again.

"Judge Martin Nolan said the robbery had started innocently and became much more serious. "

If he misspoke then it is valid to criticize him of misspeaking, no? Or is that just judicial bashing?

NoQuarter · 12-10-2012 11:48pm

omahaid wrote: »

I think you have forgotten the quote from the OP, here it is again.

"Judge Martin Nolan said the robbery had started innocently and became much more serious. "

If he misspoke then it is valid to criticize him of misspeaking, no? Or is that just judicial bashing?

I'll try dumb this down for you.

The "robbery" (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0050/sec0014.html#sec14) started innocently.

So what he means is that it was only supposed to be theft. (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0050/sec0004.html#sec4)

He isnt for a minute saying that the accused hasnt done anything wrong, but if a person steals something without using force, they are innocent of robbery, but guilty of theft.

That is what he is saying happened here, he is saying that it was an attempt at theft simpliciter, which turned into a theft using force, which in turn makes it robbery. The accused has merely tried to steal without force.

Thats all the judge is saying, it makes sense and if you know the law, you will understand it.

I'll just reiterate before anyone gets the wrong end of the stick, nobody is defending the accused, theft and robbery are both wrong, its just legal jargon that has been twisted here to make it seem like he is saying something that he is not.

omahaid · 12-10-2012 11:52pm

I wont reply any more to this but to me a judge should take care what they say, this one didnt, same as most them. And of course, you didnt address his quote, you only "dumbed it down".

NoQuarter · 12-10-2012 11:56pm

I am sorry that you dont understand what the judge has said.

I have addressed the quote, I've explained what he actually meant and I have explained that any legal practitioner there would have understood what was meant by that. It does make sense. The judge didnt say what you think he said.

I'll leave it at that too because I have a feeling my argument will be lost on you.

JustAThought · 13-10-2012 12:28am

89

Eighty NIne

Previous assaults/victims/convictions.

That he was caught for .

Key - throw away.

Boombastic · 13-10-2012 9:13am

arse..biscuits wrote: »

I write my PIN on my bank card for good luck

I don't know why the army and the garda are wasting their time escorting the money to the bank:pac:

cometogether · 13-10-2012 10:32am

I wonder how innocent it would have been if it was the judge's wife who was robbed?

meoklmrk91 · 13-10-2012 10:49am

There is numerous stories like this every week, seems to me that the biggest crooks in this country are the ones sitting on the bench saying **** like that and handing down easy does it sentences to child molesters and rapists.

Mandatory sentences and a 3 strikes law is what we need. That way people with 89 convictions wouldn't be going around innocently thieving.

UCDVet · 13-10-2012 10:57am

On the topic of PINS....

The BEST thing you can do is to write down your PINs. You should use a different randomly generated PIN for everything you do. They should have no relation to actual information or thought.

Since people can't reliably remember lots of PINs, you *SHOULD* write them down. I write them straight on the back of the associated cards.

The trick is that you also remember ONE PIN that you keep in your head. Then perform a mathematical operation between your memorized PIN and the written down PIN to derive the actual PIN for each account.

You should also keep a master list of the written down PINs in a safe place.

Now if someone steals your pursue you are fine because they don't know your PIN even though it is written on the card. If one PIN is stolen because of a hidden camera or shoulder surfer - all of your other PINs are protected (IE better than using the same PIN for everything) - and because you only need to memorize one PIN it's very easy. If you have problems remembering the PIN you can even use something more concrete - like the digits of your phone's serial number. Memorize part of it; but if you need to, you can always look at your phone. Someone who steals both the phone and your pursue or wallet wouldn't know that you only used the last 3 digits of your phone's serial number, and they wouldn't know mathematical operation you've performed between the serial number and the written down PIN.

Pottler · 13-10-2012 6:10pm

UCDVet wrote: »

On the topic of PINS....

The BEST thing you can do is to write down your PINs. You should use a different randomly generated PIN for everything you do. They should have no relation to actual information or thought.

Since people can't reliably remember lots of PINs, you *SHOULD* write them down. I write them straight on the back of the associated cards.

The trick is that you also remember ONE PIN that you keep in your head. Then perform a mathematical operation between your memorized PIN and the written down PIN to derive the actual PIN for each account.

You should also keep a master list of the written down PINs in a safe place.

Now if someone steals your pursue you are fine because they don't know your PIN even though it is written on the card. If one PIN is stolen because of a hidden camera or shoulder surfer - all of your other PINs are protected (IE better than using the same PIN for everything) - and because you only need to memorize one PIN it's very easy. If you have problems remembering the PIN you can even use something more concrete - like the digits of your phone's serial number. Memorize part of it; but if you need to, you can always look at your phone. Someone who steals both the phone and your pursue or wallet wouldn't know that you only used the last 3 digits of your phone's serial number, and they wouldn't know mathematical operation you've performed between the serial number and the written down PIN.

And they'll be more top tips from Derren Brown next week.
On an unrelated note, a woman in Cork has struck it lucky when a cow fell through her roof. For more, we go over to Plastic Sheeting, our Western correspondent.

Skylinehead · 13-10-2012 6:38pm

UCDVet wrote: »

On the topic of PINS....

The BEST thing you can do is to write down your PINs. You should use a different randomly generated PIN for everything you do. They should have no relation to actual information or thought.

Since people can't reliably remember lots of PINs, you *SHOULD* write them down. I write them straight on the back of the associated cards.

The trick is that you also remember ONE PIN that you keep in your head. Then perform a mathematical operation between your memorized PIN and the written down PIN to derive the actual PIN for each account.

You should also keep a master list of the written down PINs in a safe place.

Now if someone steals your pursue you are fine because they don't know your PIN even though it is written on the card. If one PIN is stolen because of a hidden camera or shoulder surfer - all of your other PINs are protected (IE better than using the same PIN for everything) - and because you only need to memorize one PIN it's very easy. If you have problems remembering the PIN you can even use something more concrete - like the digits of your phone's serial number. Memorize part of it; but if you need to, you can always look at your phone. Someone who steals both the phone and your pursue or wallet wouldn't know that you only used the last 3 digits of your phone's serial number, and they wouldn't know mathematical operation you've performed between the serial number and the written down PIN.

Seems a bit much, I can easily remember lots of PINs/passwords, as I assume most people can

3ndahalfof6 · 13-10-2012 6:51pm

JustAThought wrote: »

89

Eighty NIne

Previous assaults/victims/convictions.

That he was caught for .

Key - throw away.

yeh he does not seem to be much good at it, maybe he should try getting a job, the income would be more stable.

Shazmine · 23-10-2012 2:47pm

The Judge in this case regularly belittles and mocks violence against women, either in his comments or his verdicts. Look him up.
Here are a few more examples:
- 15k fine for a vicious sexual assault of a teenager in Louth. Teenager was out with friends (who tried to save her) and didn't know her attacker.
- 3k fine to a man who beat his neighbour, a woman, unconscious, continued to kick her till the gardai came and then screamed threats to burn her house down. Attack described as unprovoked and unexplained.
- 12K fine to a man who beat 3 women, all unprovoked attacks and again previous convictions but no jail time.

Death and Taxes · 23-10-2012 2:50pm

Martin Nolan is just a judge who considers sex attack victims to be prostitutes who have yet to be paid. He is a disgrace and should be removed from the bench.

Shazmine · 23-10-2012 2:54pm

"He is a disgrace and should be removed from the bench."

there are a bunch of petitions floating around at the moment, if you just look up "call for resignation of Judge Martin Nolan"

Cee-Jay-Cee · 23-10-2012 3:46pm

How could anyone expect judges in this country to rule with any sense when they live in a little cloud with absolutely no grasp on reality. They are even more detached from reality than politicians.

Lapin · 23-10-2012 11:14pm

Quote:
Judge Martin Nolan said the robbery had started innocently and became much more serious.

It probably did start innocently in the eyes of the law.

No ruling of guilt can be given until it is assertained that a crime was commited.

Innocent until proven guilty.

Judge calls handbag-snatching "innocent"

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