problems with employer - sue?

evilberry · 16-11-2010 11:52am #1

Hi Guys, hope you keepin good.

I would like to ask you bout something. Is it a good reason to sue my employer when he:

1. didn't give me a notice when he fired me (manager just called me and told I didnt work for them anymore)
2. I didn't have a contract
3. he said my holiday (7 days) will be paid to the end of previous week and I still do not have any money on my account.
4. He treated more then 2 people that way

I don't know what to think about this and I'm totally lost now, so I hope you will highlight something in that weird situation.

cheers!

drunkmonkey · 16-11-2010 11:53am

Why were you let go and how long were you working there, were you full time?

evilberry · 16-11-2010 12:00pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why were you let go and how long were you working there, were you full time?

You quick

Well, they just decided to fire stuff because the wintertime is coming and they don't need me anymore as it's not busy. I just learnt that I didn't have any hours on my roster and then my manager told me I didn't work any longer.

I started my job there in May 2010, so now that would be around 6 months.

I didn't have a contract, so that's hard to define whether I was a full or part-time. I was working depending on when they needed me. Once that was 35 hours weekly, once that was just 17.

thanks

HarryPotter41 · 16-11-2010 12:04pm

evilberry wrote: »

You quick
Well, they just decided to fire stuff because the wintertime is coming and they don't need me anymore as it's not busy. I just learnt that I didn't have any hours on my roster and then my manager told me I didn't work any longer.

I started my job there in May 2010, so now that would be around 6 months.

I didn't have a contract, so that's hard to define whether I was a full or part-time. I was working depending on when they needed me. Once that was 35 hours weekly, once that was just 17.

thanks

Your best option initially is to speak to the employment rights division of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and speak to them about the situation and see what rights you have. Its a lo call number and its 1890 80 80 90.

derdider · 16-11-2010 12:04pm

You're probably screwed.

Most of the time when you are hired, its on a 6 month probabtionary period. So during that period you have no contract and can be let go whenever the employer decides.

If, after that period he hired you full time you would have got a contract of employment etc...and he couldnt fire you just because hes quiet. Hed have to make you redundant.

Your employer probably just hired you knowing he could get 6 months work out of you and let you go then easily at the end of it. Pretty sh*tty of him but.....

I wouldnt say you can do too much about it though unfortunatley

evilberry · 16-11-2010 12:09pm

Hm, you see Guys that wouldn't be anything strange in that if everybody would have a contract. But there is nobody who has on the paper that he\she works for them (even full-times).

So that's weird. I just wasn't sure, and I'm still not. I think I'm gonna call that number and just let people who knows what is all about take a look at that.
But anyway, your opinions are very valuable for me.

You the best Guys, I was sure when I'll write here I will have an answer in few minutes. Thank you, so, so, so much!

HarryPotter41 · 16-11-2010 12:11pm

derdider wrote: »

You're probably screwed.

Most of the time when you are hired, its on a 6 month probabtionary period. So during that period you have no contract and can be let go whenever the employer decides.

If, after that period he hired you full time you would have got a contract of employment etc...and he couldnt fire you just because hes quiet. Hed have to make you redundant.

Your employer probably just hired you knowing he could get 6 months work out of you and let you go then easily at the end of it. Pretty sh*tty of him but.....

I wouldnt say you can do too much about it though unfortunatley

There are basic terms and conditions of work ( not a contract per se ) that have to be provided in writing within two months. There is also a minimum notice period dependent on length of service. In this case notice would be one week.

Jo King · 16-11-2010 12:28pm

Make a complaint to the Rights Commissioner. No written terms of employment and insufficient notice.

evilberry · 16-11-2010 12:34pm

Actually I have an idea now why they could do it.

Recently they were giving me hours like 12-14 weekly (which is not even a part time) so I decided to start applying for another job. And few days later I found part time, so I let them know which days I am able to work (which still was 4 days every week, exactly how they needed me, but excluding Sundays)
maybe that was the reason? they are fu***rs so that's very likely.

anyway - they should let me know about they wanted to fire me earlier - not in the beginning of the week which I became ''useless''.

drunkmonkey · 16-11-2010 12:38pm

By the sounds of it you weren't fired, you were a casual worker who got let go.
I'm not sure how much of a case you have or even if you had would it be worth pursuing, I don't think so either way.

evilberry · 16-11-2010 12:46pm

But that's the problem they did not tell me whether I'm a casual worker, part-time, full-time or whatever..

HarryPotter41 · 16-11-2010 12:51pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

By the sounds of it you weren't fired, you were a casual worker who got let go.
I'm not sure how much of a case you have or even if you had would it be worth pursuing, I don't think so either way.

Part time employees have the same rights as full time employees.

evilberry · 16-11-2010 2:35pm

Take a look at that

As an employee, you are entitled to receive certain basic employment rights. Although some industries entitle employees to different rights, the list below is the minimum you should receive.

A written statement of terms and conditions of employment. Whilst the full contract does not have to be in writing, certain terms and conditions of your employment must be stated in writing within two months of starting employment. These would typically include the method of calculating pay and whether or not there is a sick pay scheme in operation. (For fixed term employees it would also include in what circumstances your employment will come to an end.)
- A written statement of pay or ‘payslip’. Your payslip should set out gross pay and list all deductions made from it.
- A minimum wage

So I had payslips, paid above min, but I never had anything like written terms or conditions.

- A minimum amount of notice before dismissal
You are entitled to a minimum amount of notice if your employment ceases. The minimum amount of notice depends on the length of service.
for me as I work above 13 weeks it is one week. Had no notice.

Yesterday I asked my manager about my holiday. No answer. Love em.

/all from www.employmentrights.ie/

HarryPotter41 · 16-11-2010 3:13pm

evilberry wrote: »

Take a look at that

As an employee, you are entitled to receive certain basic employment rights. Although some industries entitle employees to different rights, the list below is the minimum you should receive.

A written statement of terms and conditions of employment. Whilst the full contract does not have to be in writing, certain terms and conditions of your employment must be stated in writing within two months of starting employment. These would typically include the method of calculating pay and whether or not there is a sick pay scheme in operation. (For fixed term employees it would also include in what circumstances your employment will come to an end.)
- A written statement of pay or ‘payslip’. Your payslip should set out gross pay and list all deductions made from it.
- A minimum wage

So I had payslips, paid above min, but I never had anything like written terms or conditions.

- A minimum amount of notice before dismissal
You are entitled to a minimum amount of notice if your employment ceases. The minimum amount of notice depends on the length of service.
for me as I work above 13 weeks it is one week. Had no notice.

Yesterday I asked my manager about my holiday. No answer. Love em.

/all from www.employmentrights.ie/

That's why you should seek proper advice and see what can be done.

evilberry · 16-11-2010 3:39pm

Firstly I'm gonna wait and keep my eye on development of situation. I will wait one week more, if there's no contact I think I'm gonna undertake appropriate steps to solve that problem. There's few more lads who had same problems so I think we could meet up and finally sort things up. A group of people is still a group of people and not a single unit.

WooPeeA · 18-11-2010 10:51pm

The key in this case can be that you did not get paid for your holiday for which you've been fully entitled. You're entitled to over 21 days a year, if you worked for them for half a year you're entitled to half of that.

If you didn't use all of it the employer is obligated to pay you the balance. It's a part of your salary. Refusing the payment is an offense.

Am I correct?

tatli_lokma · 18-11-2010 11:10pm

evilberry wrote: »

Actually I have an idea now why they could do it.

Recently they were giving me hours like 12-14 weekly (which is not even a part time) so I decided to start applying for another job. And few days later I found part time, so I let them know which days I am able to work (which still was 4 days every week, exactly how they needed me, but excluding Sundays)
maybe that was the reason? they are fu***rs so that's very likely.

anyway - they should let me know about they wanted to fire me earlier - not in the beginning of the week which I became ''useless''.

I'm guessing you work in a hotel or catering??

The same thing happened to my OH. He was working in a hotel, and initially he was getting crazy hours, too many in fact but he was glad of the work so said nothing. They didn't even give him the legal 11 hrs between shifts. Anyway, a few months later things got quiet and he went from having a 50 hour week to having less than 20. He had to travel 1 hour each way, so it was not worth it to him financially to be in for 3 hours some days. They also wouldn't even sign paperwork for the social welfare so that he could get casual payment for the days he wasn't working!

So anyway, he looked for another job, which was part time and was working from home, to supplement the other one. He was planning on working the second job around the first, so it would not have interferred with his first job in the hotel. He got the job pending references and at that stage he spoke to his direct manager asking for a reference - the manager agreed, but suddenly he had no hours. He later found out that they gave him a really bad reference - in fact so bad that the HR girl suspected something was up, because if he was that bad why was he still working there???
They even rang him at 9.45 one morning telling him he was supposed to be in for training at 10 and if he didn't show up there would be 'consequences'.

Luckily for him he got the other job and better still after 2 weeks they offered him full time if he wanted it. He took great pleasure in ringing the duty manager and telling him to stick his job where the sun don't shine!

What happened to you and my OH happens a lot on catering and retail. In a way its constructive dismissal, but as you have not been there a year there is little you can do about it. They begrudge you getting extra work because they want you free to work for them when it suits them, but have no concern about how you will manage financially when they don't want you. They expect you to be at their beck and call and they don't want you to have a second job and have to give you set hours.

Its crap, but just be glad you have the other part time job and look for something else. No one likes being without a job and having to claim dole, but in some cases its less demeaning than being treated like dirt by an employer. Keep trying and something better will come along.

good luck with everything

WooPeeA · 18-11-2010 11:26pm

So you're saying she can be refused her holiday being paid?

tatli_lokma · 18-11-2010 11:47pm

WooPeeA wrote: »

So you're saying she can be refused her holiday being paid?

where did I say that???

however, the cost of taking a case against this employer for the potential gain has to be weighed up. In an ideal world we would all fight our corner for what is our right, but in reality we don't always have the time or resources to do that, and in the type of work OP outlines as a result this type of behaviour goes on a lot.

OP is entitled to 8% of the hours they worked since the start of their employment in May. They should look for that and point out to their employer their legal rights, taking information from NERA and the working time act. Nera can help OP make a case for their owed holiday pay. However 'suing' for this might not be a realistic resolution.

WooPeeA · 18-11-2010 11:55pm

What about SIPTU?

evilberry · 18-11-2010 11:56pm

Little Ted, that wasn't a hotel nor catering. Simple, stupid and worthless job in takeaway.

What I wanted to add is I checked my account balance. Still the same. So I'm still unpaid.

EDIT

WooPeeA, that's a good point. Do I have to be registered there to ask for some help/advice?

eurokev · 19-11-2010 12:04am

Little Ted wrote: »

I'm guessing you work in a hotel or catering??

The same thing happened to my OH. He was working in a hotel, and initially he was getting crazy hours, too many in fact but he was glad of the work so said nothing. They didn't even give him the legal 11 hrs between shifts. Anyway, a few months later things got quiet and he went from having a 50 hour week to having less than 20. He had to travel 1 hour each way, so it was not worth it to him financially to be in for 3 hours some days. They also wouldn't even sign paperwork for the social welfare so that he could get casual payment for the days he wasn't working!

So anyway, he looked for another job, which was part time and was working from home, to supplement the other one. He was planning on working the second job around the first, so it would not have interferred with his first job in the hotel. He got the job pending references and at that stage he spoke to his direct manager asking for a reference - the manager agreed, but suddenly he had no hours. He later found out that they gave him a really bad reference - in fact so bad that the HR girl suspected something was up, because if he was that bad why was he still working there???
They even rang him at 9.45 one morning telling him he was supposed to be in for training at 10 and if he didn't show up there would be 'consequences'.

Luckily for him he got the other job and better still after 2 weeks they offered him full time if he wanted it. He took great pleasure in ringing the duty manager and telling him to stick his job where the sun don't shine!

What happened to you and my OH happens a lot on catering and retail. In a way its constructive dismissal, but as you have not been there a year there is little you can do about it. They begrudge you getting extra work because they want you free to work for them when it suits them, but have no concern about how you will manage financially when they don't want you. They expect you to be at their beck and call and they don't want you to have a second job and have to give you set hours.

Its crap, but just be glad you have the other part time job and look for something else. No one likes being without a job and having to claim dole, but in some cases its less demeaning than being treated like dirt by an employer. Keep trying and something better will come along.

good luck with everything

Thats pretty accurate as far as i know. I know of a few places that fire staff just short of a years service claiming something like its gone quiet or something but immediatley hire new staff, and start the vicious circle again. Its a f**king disgrace. Id love to name the few I know but i dont want to get in trouble with the mods

evilberry · 19-11-2010 10:46am

eurokev wrote: »

Thats pretty accurate as far as i know. I know of a few places that fire staff just short of a years service claiming something like its gone quiet or something but immediatley hire new staff, and start the vicious circle again. Its a f**king disgrace. Id love to name the few I know but i dont want to get in trouble with the mods

They make a use of people and when business is getting quiet they just get rid of them. I know some people can see only the very top of their ass but in this case, in my eyes (they fired the same way one lad who'd been working for them for 7 years) it makes them nothing more nothing less than unmoved egoists.

Dempo1 · 19-11-2010 10:59am

derdider wrote: »

You're probably screwed.

Most of the time when you are hired, its on a 6 month probationary period. So during that period you have no contract and can be let go whenever the employer decides.

If, after that period he hired you full time you would have got a contract of employment etc...and he couldn't fire you just because hes quiet. Hed have to make you redundant.

Your employer probably just hired you knowing he could get 6 months work out of you and let you go then easily at the end of it. Pretty sh*tty of him but.....

I wouldn't say you can do too much about it though unfortunately

Yes agreed and the OP as no recourse to the unfair dismissal act which requires 13 Months service. I do however feel the OP would be covered by the minimum notice act which at the very least would have required a weeks notice or pay in Lieu. In addition despite short service the OP like all employees is required in law to have a written contract.

I don't agree the employer's failure to give a written contract was a mechanism to avoid redundancy as redundancy would only be relevant to those with Two years or more service, the employer was in fact a lazy incompetent wanker by all accounts. Whether your a humble part time clerk or full time manager, you are required in law to have a written contract clearly stating date employment commenced, Pay, Hours of employment, position held etc.

The Best the OP could achieve is the "Nuisance Affect", get in touch with NERA, lodge a formal complaint and this will at least create a stir, not least get the Holiday pay owed which is also a statutory entitlement. The OP should understand it takes time and is free and be sure to have copies of all Payslips and if possible Rosters. NERA will then make contact with the previous employer which is normally enough to get a reaction.

HarryPotter41 · 19-11-2010 12:19pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

Yes agreed and the OP as no recourse to the unfair dismissal act which requires 13 Months service. I do however feel the OP would be covered by the minimum notice act which at the very least would have required a weeks notice or pay in Lieu. In addition despite short service the OP like all employees is required in law to have a written contract.

I don't agree the employer's failure to give a written contract was a mechanism to avoid redundancy as redundancy would only be relevant to those with Two years or more service, the employer was in fact a lazy incompetent wanker by all accounts. Whether your a humble part time clerk or full time manager, you are required in law to have a written contract clearly stating date employment commenced, Pay, Hours of employment, position held etc.

The Best the OP could achieve is the "Nuisance Affect", get in touch with NERA, lodge a formal complaint and this will at least create a stir, not least get the Holiday pay owed which is also a statutory entitlement. The OP should understand it takes time and is free and be sure to have copies of all Payslips and if possible Rosters. NERA will then make contact with the previous employer which is normally enough to get a reaction.

You're right, the laws have changed so that everyone has the same entitlements under the law as regards conditions, the only difference is that you don't get a full written contract until after a year.

The NERA will help you, or as stated above, go to SIPTU. You will have to pay a subscription to be a member but then they will fight your case. Contact the nearest SIPTU office, they won't charge you for talking to them and they are very anxious to stamp out this kind of thing.

Dempo1 · 19-11-2010 12:31pm

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

You're right, the laws have changed so that everyone has the same entitlements under the law as regards conditions, the only difference is that you don't get a full written contract until after a year.

The NERA will help you, or as stated above, go to SIPTU. You will have to pay a subscription to be a member but then they will fight your case. Contact the nearest SIPTU office, they won't charge you for talking to them and they are very anxious to stamp out this kind of thing.

Hi again,

All employees whether part time or full time are required in law to have a written contract of employment stating terms and conditions, NERA particularly focus on this legislation and the non payment of wages & holiday pay. Part time employees where thankfully afforded similar rights to full time employees as of 2007. Small example, my better half got a job at tescos for the Christmas period last year, even though she was fully aware it was for a limited time frame, she got a full written contract stating terms and conditions, company polices etc.

HarryPotter41 · 19-11-2010 12:45pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

Hi again,

All employees whether part time or full time are required in law to have a written contract of employment stating terms and conditions, NERA particularly focus on this legislation and the non payment of wages & holiday pay. Part time employees where thankfully afforded similar rights to full time employees as of 2007. Small example, my better half got a job at tescos for the Christmas period last year, even though she was fully aware it was for a limited time frame, she got a full written contract stating terms and conditions, company polices etc.

The basic terms and conditions are what are required by law and were not furnished in this case, plus the minimum period of notice was not complied with.

The relevant information:

A written statement of terms and conditions of employment. Whilst the full contract does not have to be in writing, certain terms and conditions of your employment must be stated in writing within two months of starting employment. These would typically include the method of calculating pay and whether or not there is a sick pay scheme in operation. (For fixed term employees it would also include in what circumstances your employment will come to an end.)

Good employers would offer all terms and conditions in a proper contract, sadly the sector the OP worked in usually don't come into that bracket but have to comply with the above.

WooPeeA · 19-11-2010 8:15pm

I'd try to contact other people previously employed by this employer. Maybe they're still interested in getting their money back?

Group complain sounds better and "we've forgotten" or "we've lost it somewhere" will not be an answer anymore. You can forget once but not couple of times.

evilberry · 20-11-2010 4:57pm

as long as you are a good employer you shouldn't forget ANYTHING at ALL..

but anyway - I'm still waiting. Time is to their detriment. Woopeea, my bfriend also told me to go to SIPTU. I have no fkcuing time to think about it. Whats more thinking about it drives me mad and nervous. And totally hopeless. Fkcuers.

problems with employer - sue?

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