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Does your insurance cover you if your tax is out?

  • 15-12-2012 4:03pm
    #1
    Conmaicne Mara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭


    I'm only asking on the back of the is motor tax worth it thread, mine is fully paid up.

    Also, if your NCT is out would insurance cover you? Again mine is fine, just wondering.


Comments

  • #2
    hobochris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭hobochris


    Your insurance terms and conditions will state that the vehicle must be fit for road use, if your vehicle does not have Tax or in date nct it is not fir for road use.

    So it would be a way out for the insurance company if the event of a claim if they wanted.


  • #3
    Bigus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,944 ✭✭✭Bigus


    Conmaicne Mara wrote: »
    I'm only asking on the back of the is motor tax worth it thread, mine is fully paid up.

    Also, if your NCT is out would insurance cover you? Again mine is fine, just wondering.

    Yes you are covered for insurance if your tax is out.

    NCT would be open to interpretation , if it was out for a while and you didn't book you'd be ok, however if you failed the test and continued driving with known faults which caused a preventable accident you'd be on sticky ground and the insurance co would be well within its rights to withhold payout, but this is not cut and dried.


  • #4
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    They must pay 3rd party claims regardless. I am sick of stating this.

    The only people who need to worry are those precious ones who waste money on fully comp.


  • #5
    Matt Simis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭Matt Simis


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    They must pay 3rd party claims regardless. I am sick of stating this.

    The only people who need to worry are those precious ones who waste money on fully comp.

    How is fully comp a waste of money? I have a claim pending, truck crashed into me, claims due to narrowness of road its 50-50 liability (this is incredibly common excuse and Ive learned frequently upheld in Insurance Court cases). Now 50-50 means he pays for his damage I pay for mine. His damage is effectively nothing at all, mine was EUR4500. Thankfully with fully comp Ive already had the damage repaired. With TPFT Id have to wait and see if the liability is accepted or shifted to the other party, otherwise Id be paying out of pocket.

    How is fully comp a waste in this very common (at least in Ireland) scenario?

    If you hold a comprehensive policy your auto insurance company will arrange for your vehicle to be taken to one of their approved garages' where the repairs will be undertaken. This is the quickest option as no estimate is required and most garages have authority to commence work immediately. If you would prefer to take your vehicle to a garage of your choice you must obtain 2 estimates and submit them to your insurers. Your insurers will then send an engineer to inspect your vehicle and authorize the repairs.

    If you hold a TPFT or TPO policy and have been involved in a non fault accident you will need to arrange 2 estimates and submit them to the company pursuing your uninsured losses. They will then forward your claim to the responsible party.

    50-50 liability is not considered a "non-fault" accident is it, considering my NCD is potentially being affected too?


  • #6
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    They must pay 3rd party claims regardless. I am sick of stating this.

    The only people who need to worry are those precious ones who waste money on fully comp.

    Fully comp is only a waste if you can afford to cover your own damages!! :rolleyes:

    Back OT. AFAIK, tax is OK. NCT (obviously!) isn't. But stand to be corrected.


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  • #7
    Keith186
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Keith186


    You will be covered regardless of tax status. NCT is another matter especially if you failed as opposed to letting it run out. All third party claims would be paid no matter what.

    Can't believe someone thinks fully comp is a waste of money. Doesn't cost much extra in my experience.


  • #8
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    Keith186 wrote: »
    You will be covered regardless of tax status. NCT is another matter especially if you failed as opposed to letting it run out. All third party claims would be paid no matter what.

    Can't believe someone thinks fully comp is a waste of money. Doesn't cost much extra in my experience.

    Totally agree. It is a little known fact that there is no difference between TPFT and Fully Comp. It's as little as E30-40 difference in the premium!

    I always tell people either insure the car TP only or go fully comp. TPFT is a bit of a waste TBH...


  • #9
    Conmaicne Mara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Conmaicne Mara


    Go easy would ye, I only asked a question out of curiosity.


  • #10
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    On cars worth less than €1000 I do not bother with fully comp. So all these insurance arguments mean nothing to me. If I cause damage I knows the other guy will be paid no matter what. That's what I pay the vultures for, nothing more nothing less.


  • #11
    Marcusm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,437 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    They must pay 3rd party claims regardless. I am sick of stating this.

    The only people who need to worry are those precious ones who waste money on fully comp.

    My fully comp was cheaper than my cheapest 3rd party quote; am I still a precious one?


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  • #12
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    Quite often fully comp is cheaper than TP.


  • #13
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Not on a €500 car it is not.


  • #14
    bajer100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭bajer100


    My car caught fire and the assessor deducted €500 from the market value of the car because the NCT had expired.


  • #15
    Marcusm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,437 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    Not on a €500 car it is not.

    Which is perverse as the potential additional loss is much lower than on (say) a €20k car.


  • #16
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Marcusm wrote: »
    Which is perverse as the potential additional loss is much lower than on (say) a €20k car.
    There was an average difference of €200 between comp and 3rd party quotes for me.


  • #17
    sean1141
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,088 ✭✭✭sean1141


    ABajaninCork wrote: »
    Totally agree. It is a little known fact that there is no difference between TPFT and Fully Comp. It's as little as E30-40 difference in the premium!
    It not always the case. There was over 250 in the difference of fully comprehensive and third party and 200 between tpft and fully comp on my renewal in November.
    I wouldn't bother with fully comp if I had a car worth a grand or less the only thing I would look for is glass cover which usually comes standard on fully comp.


  • #18
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,011 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    On cars worth less than €1000 I do not bother with fully comp
    Medical bills tend to be a lot more unless you believe you'll be invincible in the event of an accident.


  • #19
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Medical bills tend to be a lot more unless you believe you'll be invincible in the event of an accident.
    Medical card ftw. ;)


  • #20
    Marcusm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,437 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Medical bills tend to be a lot more unless you believe you'll be invincible in the event of an accident.

    You might want to check your policy as no doubt the big print will say something like

    Which I have taken from LIberty Insurance. When you click the link you'll find the cover is limited to EUR135 per person which seems fairly common. Generally, the car owner or driver will have extremely limited cover for personal injury, accident or medical cover under a car insurance policy. Not a lot of people know that (as Michael Caine might say).


    (For completeness, when you click the link, you get the following...


    Comprehensive Cover Only

    We will pay for medical expenses up to €135 for each person injured if the vehicle is involved in an accident, as long as there is no cover in force under another motor insurance policy.)


  • #21
    Esel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,505 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    hobochris wrote: »
    Your insurance terms and conditions will state that the vehicle must be fit for road use, if your vehicle does not have Tax or in date NCT it is not fit for road use.

    So it would be a way out for the insurance company if the event of a claim if they wanted.
    You are well wrong there.

    Not your ornery onager



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  • #22
    ffocused
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭ffocused


    While getting a repair estimate a few weeks ago the guy in the shop told me of another customer who only got 80% of his claim as his NCT was out by 2 months.


  • #23
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    That is common enough. Let it be a lesson to keep your NCT in date.

    The absence of tax does not affect anything insurance related.


  • #24
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    Medical card ftw. ;)

    So your precious comment wouldn't apply to non medical card holders who drive cars worth over a grand ?


  • #25
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    I stand over my comments regardless.


  • #26
    dieselbug
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭dieselbug


    I know that if you change your car and want to transfer the insurance they will ask for the nct. If the car does not have a current nct , they will refuse to transfer.

    What dosent make sense is, on renewal each year they dont require proof of a current nct. So, you can buy a car with nct and get insured, then keep it for x numbers of years, insured and possibly no nct.


  • #27
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    I know that if you change your car and want to transfer the insurance they will ask for the nct. If the car does not have a current nct , they will refuse to transfer.
    Not heard of this happening. Which company is it?


  • #28
    MidlandsM
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭MidlandsM


    bajer100 wrote: »
    My car caught fire and the assessor deducted €500 from the market value of the car because the NCT had expired.

    and rightly so


  • #29
    dieselbug
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭dieselbug


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    Not heard of this happening. Which company is it?

    Well it"s a while back. I have a trade insurance with a good few years. But it was next to impossible to get a transfer without a current nct. I would be surprised if it has changed. I could see the logic in it. But why not follow up on renewal is what puzzled a little.

    Through a broker, so cant remember which insurance company.


  • #30
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Probably just a broker imposing his own rules. I have had brokers looking for tax books in the past.

    I have managed to insure many cars with no nct with no bother. I am unaware of any that ask to see the docs.


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  • #31
    MidlandsM
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭MidlandsM


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    Probably just a broker imposing his own rules. I have had brokers looking for tax books in the past.

    I have managed to insure many cars with no nct with no bother. I am unaware of any that ask to see the docs.

    when a claim arises, they will.


  • #32
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    MidlandsM wrote: »
    when a claim arises, they will.
    That goes without saying. All is fine until you claim. Not withstanding the 3rd party will be paid anyways.


  • #33
    MugMugs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    Tax doesn't matter and NCT doesn't really matter either unless explicitly referred to.

    If your vehicle is 100 percent roadworthy then you'd have a good argument over whether they could decline / refuse a Comp claim for no NCT....


  • #34
    wonski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,685 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    Probably just a broker imposing his own rules. I have had brokers looking for tax books in the past.

    I have managed to insure many cars with no nct with no bother. I am unaware of any that ask to see the docs.

    Aviva wants to see them before sending out certificate, Tesco asked me too.
    Think it has something to do with age of car, as they don't ask for it when insuring newer cars.


  • #35
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    MidlandsM wrote: »

    when a claim arises, they will.

    They can ask all they like but they have no authority to demand it, and you don't have to produce it. The only people who can are AGS.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #36
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    MidlandsM wrote: »

    and rightly so

    ..wrongly so. The have no right to do so.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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  • #37
    bajer100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭bajer100


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bajer100
    My car caught fire and the assessor deducted €500 from the market value of the car because the NCT had expired.
    and rightly so
    MidlandsM wrote: »

    I wasn't complaining - I was merely contributing some information as to how insurance companies deal with situations like expired NCTs. I was happy to receive a payment, as I was worried that the insurance company would use the fact that my NCT had expired to refuse to pay out. I don't have a particular problem with the market value being reduced due the lack of a valid NCT - that is just common sense. But I would have a problem if you were insinuating that the lack of an NCT cert were in some the cause of this accident. The assessor discovered that the cause of the accident was due to an electrical fault that would never have been picked up in any NCT test.


  • #38
    dieselbug
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭dieselbug


    I think and only think, once the insurance company accept you as their customer.They then enter into a contract to cover you as a risk and it"s not so easy to walk away.

    Bottom line is, they contract to cover you as a risk, ie it"s a gamble. Thats their business.

    Jim.


  • #39
    Marcusm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,437 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    galwaytt wrote: »
    They can ask all they like but they have no authority to demand it, and you don't have to produce it. The only people who can are AGS.

    Don't provide it, don't get a payout on the claim, simples! (as the insurance providing meerkat woud say)

    In the event of a write off, whether the vehicle has an extant NCT would be a valid factor in estimating market value as evidenced by the threads here commenting on the relative values of cars without NCT, with fresh NCT etc.


  • #40
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭Yawns


    ABajaninCork wrote: »
    Totally agree. It is a little known fact that there is no difference between TPFT and Fully Comp. It's as little as E30-40 difference in the premium!

    I always tell people either insure the car TP only or go fully comp. TPFT is a bit of a waste TBH...

    Just a note, the difference for me is double the premium to go fully comp.. It's a joke. It will be 5 years NCB this year and not a single claim or point and it will most likely still be double the price or there abouts to go full comp.

    This year policy cost 590 for TPFT but they wanted 1180 for fully comp. I do a lot of shopping about but the fully comp premium is always sky high.

    EDIT:

    Just did a full detailed quote there on Chill.ie for a quick example and the cheapest result I got was TPFT is €499 and Fully comp is €817 so a difference of €318. TP on it's own is €471.


  • #41
    MidlandsM
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭MidlandsM


    galwaytt wrote: »
    They can ask all they like but they have no authority to demand it, and you don't have to produce it. The only people who can are AGS.

    i think you'll find if its in the terms and conditions of your policy, you need to produce it if requested, and if you don't, it'll just be taken then as you don't have a valid nct.


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