has motor tax passed the "is it worth buying" rate?

snaps · 13-12-2012 9:43am #1

What with the latest motor tax increases and especially around my rual area with garda cutbacks, lots more motorists are not renewing their tax when its due. Talking to people down the pub and also walking around town this week I noticed not far off 50% of cars parked had out of date tax discs.
There must be many cars on the road now that are worth less than 1k and have 1.9/2l engines where it costs as much to tax than the car is worth.
I can't remember last time I saw a garda checkpoint locally (seen a few customs checkpoints for diesel).
If one did get caught with no tax, what's the consequences of having no tax? What's the average fine etc? Perhaps it is actually worth running the risk now a days not having motor tax?

I'm just curious, not promoting it, but generally shocked by the amount of cars on the road with tax discs more than 2 months out of date.

Also a subject that was discussed the other night in the pub was people try and do 3 months on and 3 months off taxing.

helimachoptor · 13-12-2012 9:49am

Where my wife is from it's pretty rural. In the town (street) on a Saturday night I'd be shocked to see more than 50% of cars being taxes, nearest Garda station is 30 mins away. Have been dipped by customs but never checked for tax when I've been down

crusher000 · 13-12-2012 9:51am

Penalty points now for not having car tax so if you want the insurance premium to take a hike go for it. Also 3 months on 3 months off ? Don't you have to back pay your tax if it's not renewed. my tax is now 760 a year which is maddening. Insurance is cheaper and your correct my tax is now nearly higher than the value of my car a 02.

furtzy · 13-12-2012 9:52am

Its about 50% where I'm from as well but the nearest Garda station is about 100 feet away and its the counties traffic corp headquarters :eek:

Boskowski · 13-12-2012 9:54am

What about being a law abiding citizen? Doesn't come into it?

Also with the car not being worth much doesn't necessarily mean people have the dosh to buy a new one when the non taxed car gets impounded. A car is rarely an asset but it still gets you from A to B. quite some value in that though isn't it?

snaps · 13-12-2012 9:58am

crusher000 wrote: »

Penalty points now for not having car tax so if you want the insurance premium to take a hike go for it. Also 3 months on 3 months off ? Don't you have to back pay your tax if it's not renewed. my tax is now 760 a year which is maddening. Insurance is cheaper and your correct my tax is now nearly higher than the value of my car a 02.

think the garda can sign forms saying its been off the road. I was getting passport forms signed one evening in the local barracks, the office was full of people getting declarations signed.

The Bishop Basher · 13-12-2012 9:59am

Motor tax has become ridiculous. I do 3 months on 3 months off. Sometimes go 4 months before renewing. If they looked for a more reasonable amount I would be happy to pay it but €1500 for a 06 car is a farce. The chances of getting away with it are far greater then the chances of getting caught so its well worth it IMO.

snaps · 13-12-2012 10:01am

Boskowski wrote: »

What about being a law abiding citizen? Doesn't come into it?

TRUE, but just wondering what now goes at the bottom of the list for priority for paying, I.e tv licence, motor tax etc etc

crusher000 · 13-12-2012 10:01am

Again correct me but I though you now also have to cancle your insurance or have proof from your insurance company that car was off the road to get an exemption. With the closure of 100 garda stations it will become easier to avoid paying tax and with the money saved have a few pints and off down the road with ya.

The Bishop Basher · 13-12-2012 10:03am

crusher000 wrote: »

Again correct me but I though you now also have to cancle your insurance or have proof from your insurance company that car was off the road to get an exemption. With the closure of 100 garda stations it will become easier to avoid paying tax and with the money saved have a few pints and off down the road with ya.

No. You just get the form signed and off ye go. Why would you cancel your insurance ? The car can still be stolen from your driveway.

Jack breen · 13-12-2012 10:06am

crusher000 wrote: »

Penalty points now for not having car tax so if you want the insurance premium to take a hike go for it. Also 3 months on 3 months off ? Don't you have to back pay your tax if it's not renewed. my tax is now 760 a year which is maddening. Insurance is cheaper and your correct my tax is now nearly higher than the value of my car a 02.

No there is not. Tax has nothing to do with road safety.

godtabh · 13-12-2012 10:12am

Swanner wrote: »

Motor tax has become ridiculous. I do 3 months on 3 months off. Sometimes go 4 months before renewing. If they looked for a more reasonable amount I would be happy to pay it but €1500 for a 06 car is a farce. The chances of getting away with it are far greater then the chances of getting caught so its well worth it IMO.

Did you not know that how much it was going to cost to tax the car? Did some one trick you or something to buy the car?

We had 2 cars. A 2011 C4 with tax at €160 and a 2005 Saab 93 with tax at about €600. Got rid of the saab. Running costs were high and it wasnt being used as much.

As things stand we may need to get a second car in the new year. It will more than likely a 1.2l A-B banger

Rabidlamb · 13-12-2012 10:14am

I know of 2 lads I play golf with who photoshop tax discs.
Mind you they did this in the good times so it's not just a money thing with them.
The other workaround was for the wife to tax her smaller car for 3 months at a time then give the old disc to the husband when renewing.
Most guards wouldn't inspect the small particulars & would just tell the driver to get it sorted if it was noticed.

My drivers who do rush hour only daily commutes on Motorways will never see a Checkpoint.
The only time I've been pulled in 7 years was when I slept it out & was traveling around 9:30am.

Henry Ford III · 13-12-2012 10:15am

Untaxed cars can be seized after 3 months.

ottostreet · 13-12-2012 10:16am

Crusher, pretty much everything you've said is incorrect. There's no points for no tax.

The Bishop Basher · 13-12-2012 10:17am

godtabh wrote: »

Did you not know that how much it was going to cost to tax the car? Did some one trick you or something to buy the car?

We had 2 cars. A 2011 C4 with tax at €160 and a 2005 Saab 93 with tax at about €600. Got rid of the saab. Running costs were high and it wasnt being used as much.

As things stand we may need to get a second car in the new year. It will more than likely a 1.2l A-B banger

It has risen significantly in the last few budgets. I can't afford a 08 car and I don't want to drive a 1L run around so I choose to keep the car and only pay 6 months of tax every year.

Boskowski · 13-12-2012 10:26am

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Untaxed cars can be seized after 3 months.

2 months actually

13-12-2012 10:34am

Rabidlamb wrote: »

I know of 2 lads I play golf with who photoshop tax discs.

Whats the penalty for having a false/forged disc against having an out of date one?

I imagine it would work at a checkpoint but don't some Traffic Corp cars have the number plate recognition camera's on board now that look up the latest tax records database - if that told the Garda it was out of date, then inspecting the disc told otherwise, I would guess you are going to court.

listermint · 13-12-2012 10:35am

Motor Tax is another Dublin Tax. Plain and simple.

Iwannahurl · 13-12-2012 10:38am

snaps wrote: »

TRUE, but just wondering what now goes at the bottom of the list for priority for paying, I.e tv licence, motor tax etc etc

Maybe the TV?

Rabidlamb · 13-12-2012 10:39am

00833827 wrote: »

Whats the penalty for having a false/forged disc against having an out of date one?

I imagine it would work at a checkpoint but don't some Traffic Corp cars have the number plate recognition camera's on board now that look up the latest tax records database - if that told the Garda it was out of date, then inspecting the disc told otherwise, I would guess you are going to court.

I believe it's a criminal offense to forge official documents.

I heard that tax recognition software was only rolled out on one car based in Dublin.
From experience us country folk worry less about about penalty points & the like as there's no enforcement, same lads who were drink driving 10 years ago are still at it.

unkel · 13-12-2012 10:41am

Did a check in rural Mayo about 2 years ago (only a few miles from Enda Kenny's office) and more than 90% of local cars had NO tax

No checkpoints -> cars are not taxed
Lots of checkpoints -> cars are taxed

Maybe the Gardai should be told to earn back some of the generous salary the taxpayer is paying them by starting to enforce the laws. The state needs the money, guards, you know what to do!

13-12-2012 10:44am

listermint wrote: »

Motor Tax is another Dublin Tax. Plain and simple.

Your not wrong - I do a commute from a large regional town to a regional city - i would estimate once in two years you would meet a checkpoint - thats traveling in for 9 and home after 5:30, my tax is rarely if ever inspected while i drive - maybe its different before or after those hours, I cant really comment on that.

Frequent speed vans though...

corktina · 13-12-2012 10:44am

it's about time enforcement was practised. You wouldn't leave home in the UK with out T&T if you had any sense and it should be the same here.

more road blocks and zero tolerance is called for

snaps · 13-12-2012 10:50am

unkel wrote: »

Did a check in rural Mayo about 2 years ago (only a few miles from Enda Kenny's office) and more than 90% of local cars had NO tax

No checkpoints -> cars are not taxed
Lots of checkpoints -> cars are taxed

Maybe the Gardai should be told to earn back some of the generous salary the taxpayer is paying them by starting to enforce the laws. The state needs the money, guards, you know what to do!

that's the problem, the gardai presence is being greatly reduced here in mayo. Its becoming a lawless county.

If owned a 500€ banger I would really think hard about not taxing it. But I wonder would the garda confiscate a 500€ banger....doubt it. But they would though if it was a much more expensive yoke.

Iwannahurl · 13-12-2012 10:50am

corktina wrote: »

it's about time enforcement was practised. You wouldn't leave home in the UK with out T&T if you had any sense and it should be the same here.

more road blocks and zero tolerance is called for

Local Authorities are enforcing the Motor Tax laws, in my neck of the woods anyway. In fact, issuing tickets for Motor Tax offences seems to be the single biggest category of ticket issued by "parking" wardens.

Which makes me wonder: do Local Authorities have a financial incentive to target this category of offence?

I had to fork out €478 for Motor Tax recently and it's painful, especially since insurance and servicing costs occur around the same time. All the same, I wouldn't risk being nicked for out of date tax or anything else.

13-12-2012 10:51am

Rabidlamb wrote: »

I believe it's a criminal offense to forge official documents.

I heard that tax recognition software was only rolled out on one car based in Dublin.
From experience us country folk worry less about about penalty points & the like as there's no enforcement, same lads who were drink driving 10 years ago are still at it.

I think i saw one on a Traffic Corp car in Cork early this year, proably March. If its what i am thinking of its a small white rectangular box above the rear window on the roof. The car would need a PC with the a recent copy of the tax database to query - probably a daily refresh of this would need to be done before they head on duty - (i would think they have no real time connection, and coverage would be an issue, so would need their own copy)

I am wondering if they would do all that every day. I am not sure they would.

snaps · 13-12-2012 10:53am

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Local Authorities are enforcing the Motor Tax laws, in my neck of the woods anyway. In fact, issuing tickets for Motor Tax offences seems to be the single biggest category of ticket issued by "parking" wardens.

can traffic wardens issue tickets for tax?

working fool · 13-12-2012 10:57am

godtabh wrote: »

Did you not know that how much it was going to cost to tax the car? Did some one trick you or something to buy the car?

We had 2 cars. A 2011 C4 with tax at €160 and a 2005 Saab 93 with tax at about €600. Got rid of the saab. Running costs were high and it wasnt being used as much.

As things stand we may need to get a second car in the new year. It will more than likely a 1.2l A-B banger

€160 ?
Good for you
Unfortunately not everyone can afford a 2011 car .
For the rest of peasants we are stuck with car tax sometimes double our insurance .

furtzy · 13-12-2012 10:58am

snaps wrote: »

can traffic wardens issue tickets for tax?

Yes they can. The traffic warden in monaghan town is renowned for it

galwaytt · 13-12-2012 11:00am

...I remember posting on this subject way back - March 2012 actually - as I had walked amongst the throngs of parked cars at Paddy's Day parade, and I was lambasted by many for 'inflating' my claim then that......oh, I dunno 20% - 30% of cars were out of tax. Funny ol' world

Now, as for OP's question, yes, I believe we have passed the point. I've had to get into Bangernomics for obvious reasons, and I paid €150 for the car. It's a 13 yr old 1.1 Fiat - and they want €300+ to tax it. Lucicrous. Even if the car was new it wouldn't be worth €300 p.a. tax, let alone when it's the age it is.

@Godtabh - not personal btw, but you put a good example - but isn't it well that you could afford a 2011 Citroen, just to get the 'cheap' tax ? Unfortunately, you are the exception rather than the rule - post '08 reg cars only account for 14% of the national fleet right now, and with a miniscule 4% of the fleet p.a.. Which means, that at the current rate it will take nigh-on well over a decade (actually, way more...) before the rest of us are in a position to. So what about having a just tax system for, oh, I dunno.........the MAJORITY ?

has motor tax passed the "is it worth buying" rate?

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