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Slow Speed With Homeplugs - Any Ideas?

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  • 25-07-2015 6:41pm
    #1
    Ramza
    Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭


    Hi, I'm not sure if this is in the right section but I hope it is.

    After being sick of useless wifi signals and sharing wifi with people (crazy lag while gaming etc), I decided to give homeplugs a go. One of the people I share a house with uses an ancient first generation iPod with 802.11b wifi standard to connect, so you can imagine how slow the wifi can get when she's home! Couple of my friends use homeplugs and highly recommended them to me over wifi, since running a direct cable from the modem to my PS4/PC is not plausible for me. After reading reviews and stuff online, I ordered these from Amazon and got them today.

    Now, I'm on UPC 200MB w/ Horizon. I understand that in a real word setting that the max 200MB speed is of course not possible for me to obtain. The wifi on the box is also horrendous so the homeplugs seems like a fantastic option for me given how crap the wifi is. On my PC on wifi ( using 802.11N fyi) I could get about 45-50MBPS (about 5mb/s peak) when no one else was online or hogging the wifi. On my PS4 I got about 2mb/s peak (the PS4 wireless is bad, coupled with my terrible wireless signal = go figure :p). I rarely use my PC so I mainly bought the homeplugs for my PS4 to get a faster and more stable connection.

    Unboxed the plugs today and installation was straight forward, paired them up and got them hooked up in no time. However I noticed the two ethernet cables packaged with this device were cat5s and not cat5es. I hooked them up to my PC to try a speedtest. Got the exact same speed from wifi but a much better ping. Bit disappointed since I expected faster since it is a 200MB box but didn't mind. I can get about 130MB/s with a straight ethernet connection when I test it on my laptop, so I was expecting faster than my current wifi speed. Proceeded to switch the cable over to my PS4; I again saw immediate benefits- menus weren't laggy or hanging anymore, and overall it seemed far more responsive and fast. However download speeds are worse if not the same. :(

    I get about 200kb/s. It's atrocious. I tried using google's DNS servers, I tried using my own automatic DNS. I figured out my exact MTU and set it accordingly in the PS4 menu. I messed with different settings I found on google etc, and the PSN servers seem to be up and running smoothly. So I have no idea what the issue or bottle neck is.

    I'm wondering if maybe the wiring in my house is just bad? Or maybe if I upgrade to 2 cat5es over the 2 current cat5s, will it help? Also worth nothing is that these units are not plugged into extension leads. They are plugged into a wall socket like this. However, what is worth nothing is that while the homeplugs themselves have their own socket, the second socket downstairs next to my homeplug is an extension lead with about 5 plugs in it. I'm not sure if this matters because my homeplug is not connected to the extension cable itself. I'm not too disappointed with the product as it means I won't have to suffer wifi anymore and wont be subjected to other people lagging me as much. I also will have better pings and a more stable connection so I'm fine with it. I was just wondering is there any tweaks or changes I can make to maybe improve my speed? Seems like it can and should be capable of more? I also upgraded the firmware on the plugs and messed around with the QOS setting on the PC software, and left it on it's default of "Online Gaming"

    Any replies or feedback are appreciated.


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    #2
    Riesen_Meal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    Sounds to me like the house wiring may not be up to it unfortunately, I think the whole house had to be on the one circuit, I tried homeplugs in my mother's house for PS4 and they just didn't work at all, (I think she has 2 circuits) they work fine in my house though...


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    #3
    Ramza
    Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    Fieldog wrote: »
    Sounds to me like the house wiring may not be up to it unfortunately, I think the whole house had to be on the one circuit, I tried homeplugs in my mother's house for PS4 and they just didn't work at all, (I think she has 2 circuits) they work fine in my house though...

    Yeah, true. Was wondering if upgrading to cat5e cables would help but thought I'd post up here before I go and waste money on new cables I don't need. I mean, I rechecked right now and my PS4 dl speeds are hitting about 2-4MB/S now which is great! And my ping and stability will overall improve so I mean, it's still a massive leap over sharing 802.11b internet with 2 housemates! I hope...:o


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    #4
    Greenmachine
    Registered Users Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭Greenmachine


    Ramza wrote: »
    Yeah, true. Was wondering if upgrading to cat5e cables would help but thought I'd post up here before I go and waste money on new cables I don't need. I mean, I rechecked right now and my PS4 dl speeds are hitting about 2-4MB/S now which is great! And my ping and stability will overall improve so I mean, it's still a massive leap over sharing 802.11b internet with 2 housemates! I hope...:o

    If you go with cable, careful where you buy, there is a serious premium on them on the high street.


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    #5
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Home plugs rely on using the neutral wiring to carry a signal. In more modern wiring there may be individual neutrals for each circuit and more RCDs.

    Electrical wiring is not designed to carry data. Home plugs are a bit of a hack really.


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    #6
    mass_debater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,072 ✭✭✭mass_debater


    YMMV, homeplugs are completely hit or miss. They depend on the quality of your electrical circuitry, something as simple as a cable overlap or twist in the conduit or ceiling can affect the result. Basically you're sending a radio signal through your electrical circuit. Unfortunately there is no possible way test, troubleshoot or fix. Run some cat5e or cat6 cables


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    #7
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    You could have very high quality electrical circuitry and they still might not work, as your electrical wiring was designed for carrying power, not signals.


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    #8
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Those speeds sounds pretty similar to 10mbs half duplex and any CAT5 cable would be really old. Is the port activity light on the modem the same as the rest? What does your laptop say about the connection speed and type when plugged in?


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    #9
    Riesen_Meal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    I'm getting a 30.9mbps down and 4.5 upload at the moment (it sometimes higher, sometimes lower) on a 50mbps Magnet Fat Pipe Fibre package via homeplugs on my PS4, the homeplugs I have are these ones : http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/1090930/Trail/searchtext%3EHOMEPLUGS.htm

    As i said previous they don't work in my Mams house (60s Dublin Semi Detached house) but do in my 8 year old Co Dublin house - a lot of the Voodoo involved with them seems to be how exactly your house is wired....

    Edit : when wired to my Mac they produce about 45mbps down and 19 up via Speed test....


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    #10
    Ramza
    Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    Fieldog wrote: »
    I'm getting a 30.9mbps down and 4.5 upload at the moment (it sometimes higher, sometimes lower) on a 50mbps Magnet Fat Pipe Fibre package via homeplugs on my PS4, the homeplugs I have are these ones : http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/1090930/Trail/searchtext%3EHOMEPLUGS.htm

    As i said previous they don't work in my Mams house (60s Dublin Semi Detached house) but do in my 8 year old Co Dublin house - a lot of the Voodoo involved with them seems to be how exactly your house is wired....

    Edit : when wired to my Mac they produce about 45mbps down and 19 up via Speed test....

    On the PS4 connection test in the network settings, I get about 20 Mbps down and 3 Mbps up. At night time it tends to go a little higher. I tried experimenting with the software that came with the plugs, tinkering with QoS, different cables etc. All same results. I even plugged everything out of each outlet the respective plugs were on and still got the same speeds. Was expecting something better than 20 Mbps since my wireless even does better than that. Oh well :(


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    #11
    Riesen_Meal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    Ramza wrote: »
    On the PS4 connection test in the network settings, I get about 20 Mbps down and 3 Mbps up. At night time it tends to go a little higher. I tried experimenting with the software that came with the plugs, tinkering with QoS, different cables etc. All same results. I even plugged everything out of each outlet the respective plugs were on and still got the same speeds. Was expecting something better than 20 Mbps since my wireless even does better than that. Oh well :(

    The wireless on the PS4 is flaky at best, so I'm surprised your getting faster download over WiFi then you are the via the plugs on the PS4 itself....

    Even whilst hardwired to a plug it isn't exactly a correct indicator of speeds (as the little asterix tells you at the bottom of the test screen) as homeplugs can be wildly different speeds one second to the next - sometimes my PS4 bounces up to 48 down and 20 up at various times of the day, but again its just a snapshot of literally that second your are connected, I don't think investing in the better cat cables will help much here I'm afraid....

    Variables for me I find are like my missus watching the saorview downstairs, it can effect the homeplugs weirdly enough - or if a TV in another room is powered on, they ain't foolproof unfortunately....

    I think the PS4 Ethernet is capped at about 50mps regardless, I'm not 100℅ on that though so maybe someone in the PS forum may have better knowledge than me, I'm just going by my general experience.... :).

    Edit : actually in my mates house we didn't get over 50 hardwired on his 200mb upc connection iirc


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    #12
    TheDoc
    Registered Users Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    Here is a speedtest from a few mins ago, to my main PC that uses plugs

    http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4537290144

    I was RDPing from work to my HTPC, but the misses got sick of me hogging it and her not being able to watch TV, so I swopped RDP to my main PC. Noticable this morning is the lag over RDP, where previously it was like I was on the PC at home, not a hiccup.

    My homeplugs are pretty fine in terms of what I do, gaming and all that jazz, no problems. I do have some minor annoyances regarding twitch.tv quality being lower then it should, and things like RDP lag etc., but as said above homeplugs are a hack.

    I had planned to run a cable outside my house and back in, but as it's a rented house I'm a bit weary now of drilling new holes.

    Toying with the idea of running a cable along the skirting all the way up to the main PC, from the router downstairs.Not sure how the integrity of the line will hold up though, running cable that distance.


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    #13
    satguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭satguy


    Homeplugs can be great, and will work great, but even the best of them can be let down by bad house wiring.

    I bought some a while ago, and they really worked out great here, My young son even did a short video about them.



    Worth a look, even just to see what is may be like, if they do work out..


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    #14
    TheDoc
    Registered Users Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    Yeah I'm in a relatively modern house and thats why it's working out for me. But in my parents house when I tried them few years back, werent worth the ****e, as the house had two circuits.

    New houses run just one circuit, where are older ones have separate circuits for upstairs and downstairs, so they don't work well at all.

    I order all my cabling from Amazon since its a laugh when you walk into retail shops here looking for long cabling. I might just measure up when I get home how much cable I'd need and wire this **** up the stairs.


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    #15
    mass_debater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,072 ✭✭✭mass_debater


    TheDoc wrote: »
    Here is a speedtest from a few mins ago, to my main PC that uses plugs

    http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4537290144

    I was RDPing from work to my HTPC, but the misses got sick of me hogging it and her not being able to watch TV, so I swopped RDP to my main PC. Noticable this morning is the lag over RDP, where previously it was like I was on the PC at home, not a hiccup.

    My homeplugs are pretty fine in terms of what I do, gaming and all that jazz, no problems. I do have some minor annoyances regarding twitch.tv quality being lower then it should, and things like RDP lag etc., but as said above homeplugs are a hack.

    I had planned to run a cable outside my house and back in, but as it's a rented house I'm a bit weary now of drilling new holes.

    Toying with the idea of running a cable along the skirting all the way up to the main PC, from the router downstairs.Not sure how the integrity of the line will hold up though, running cable that distance.

    Twitch would be explained by the dropping off UDP packets, it's a known issue I've encountered a few times with homeplugs


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    #16
    Ramza
    Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    Thanks for all the replies. I managed to do a little bit of experimentation with putting them in different sockets etc, one configuration seemed to boost speeds a good bit for me, so gonna leave it there for now! The wiring in my gaff seems to be the main bottleneck so I guess I just have to suck it up! I honestly don't mind not getting the full whack of my connection, I understand there are tonnes of variables but so far they've been fantastic for gaming (why I bought them) ; I get much better pings in games (20~30ms, as opposed to 50-70ms), way faster/consistent DL speeds and overall it's just way more stable. I haven't encountered a single bit of lag in over 4 days of using these so far. Definitely very pleased so far. It's also a big bonus as other housemates I live with use just the wifi so it feels great to be finally rid of crappy/inconsistent wifi!


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    #17
    Riesen_Meal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    I know this sounds like a silly question, but did you have them going directly into the wall socket?

    I know the homeplug speed cuts in half again if they are connected to a 4 gang extension cable...


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    #18
    mass_debater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,072 ✭✭✭mass_debater


    Fieldog wrote: »
    I know this sounds like a silly question, but did you have them going directly into the wall socket?

    I know the homeplug speed cuts in half again if they are connected to a 4 gang extension cable...

    As well as that, when using a double socket, the second socket is not filtered and shouldn't be used


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    #19
    Ramza
    Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    Fieldog wrote: »
    I know this sounds like a silly question, but did you have them going directly into the wall socket?

    I know the homeplug speed cuts in half again if they are connected to a 4 gang extension cable...

    I had them going into a double socket. Only option I have as downstairs has no single sockets, and my bedroom also has no single sockets. I avoided plugging them into extension leads and the like


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    #20
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    TheDoc wrote: »
    Yeah I'm in a relatively modern house and thats why it's working out for me. But in my parents house when I tried them few years back, werent worth the ****e, as the house had two circuits.

    New houses run just one circuit, where are older ones have separate circuits for upstairs and downstairs, so they don't work well at all.

    I order all my cabling from Amazon since its a laugh when you walk into retail shops here looking for long cabling. I might just measure up when I get home how much cable I'd need and wire this **** up the stairs.

    It actually depends on the size of the house, the layout and the design of the wiring - radials or rings.

    My house has 12 circuits for sockets.

    Irish wiring is often a lot more like continental or US wiring where a radial circuit (or several ) feed each room. So you've multiple circuits for sockets.

    British wiring tends to use rings where one 32A circuit breaker feeds a whole floor. There are arguments against this type of wiring from a fire safety and fault tracing point of view, but I'm not going into them on this thread. They would most likely be easier to transmit home plug data on though.

    Radials tend to be preferred here though.

    You may also find a mix. For example high load areas like the kitchen may be fed with several dedicated radials. So, home plugs from your kitchen to living room might not work while hall to living room might be fine.

    House wiring was absolutely never designed to carry data. It's only purpose is carrying 230V power.

    Home plugs use the neutral wiring to carry data. We use single pole circuit breakers in Ireland that sit on the live only. However, RCDs (the device that protects you from electric shock) sits across both live and neutral. Home plug data seems to be unable to traverse these.

    In some very recent wiring, there maybe a combined RCD & Circuit breaker known as an RCBO on every circuit.

    These installations will not work for home plug data but they're ultra safe, ultra modern and will protect you very effectively from shocks and fires!

    The notion that home plugs not working = bad or old wiring is absolutely not correct.

    If home plugs don't work, you'll just have to use CAT6 wiring instead. It's a far better solution anyway if you've a serious home network.

    Nice little explanation on RCDs there (and the confusion with older terminology Differential ELCBs vs Voltage Operated ELCBs etc) - From Western Automation in Galway.

    http://www.westernautomation.com/DemystifyingRCDs.pdf

    Ireland has a LONG history of using these though, going back to the 1950s in many cases and they have massively reduced risk of electric shock / death. They were commonplace by the 1980s, where as in the UK they've only been common since 2008.


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    #21
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,166 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Great post, will link to that in future.
    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Home plugs use the neutral wiring to carry data. We use single pole circuit breakers in Ireland that sit on the live only. However, RCDs (the device that protects you from electric shock) sits across both live and neutral. Home plug data seems to be unable to traverse these.

    The odd time you'll get 1-5Mbps leakage across RCDs, but most of the time it entirely filters out the DLAN signals.


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    #22
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    This might give you more of a sense of why it won't work :

    A *very* simplified diagram of an RCD:

    http://www.tb-training.co.uk/images/Image2.gif


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    #23
    boardzz
    Registered Users Posts: 860 ✭✭✭boardzz


    Just buy a decent wifi router instead of wasting money on plugs. My router supports 5Ghz and max speed 240Mb is coming through wifi


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    #24
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    boardzz wrote: »
    Just buy a decent wifi router instead of wasting money on plugs. My router supports 5Ghz and max speed 240Mb is coming through wifi

    In most houses, this will work, but in some (including mine) you need multiple access points (wifi routers) because of solid internal walls.

    The best way of getting decent connectivity though is to run CAT6 to a couple of points in the house where you know you can locate a wifi router to get maximum coverage.

    It can also be handy to connect things like your VoIP phone base station or sky box directly via a wired connection as they won't be impacted by any WiFi issues and you ensure a nice smooth, steady stream at all times.

    Realistically, nobody wants to have to plug a laptop into the wall though.


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    #25
    kleefarr
    Registered Users Posts: 5,743 ✭✭✭kleefarr


    Fieldog wrote: »
    I know the homeplug speed cuts in half again if they are connected to a 4 gang extension cable...

    To eliminate that problem would using these help?
    http://uk.tp-link.com/products/details/cat-18_TL-PA8030P-KIT.html

    I am thinking about using powerline homeplugs for our entertainment corner which has xbox android tv box and a few other things plugged into a double socket and utilising a three way adapter. So if I used one of these it shouldn't affect the signal too much should it?


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    #26
    mass_debater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,072 ✭✭✭mass_debater


    kleefarr wrote: »
    To eliminate that problem would using these help?
    http://uk.tp-link.com/products/details/cat-18_TL-PA8030P-KIT.html

    I am thinking about using powerline homeplugs for our entertainment corner which has xbox android tv box and a few other things plugged into a double socket and utilising a three way adapter. So if I used one of these it shouldn't affect the signal too much should it?

    Use only one of the double sockets, plug the homeplug direct into the other and plug the extension into the homeplug. Doing it any other way could cause problems.


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    #27
    kleefarr
    Registered Users Posts: 5,743 ✭✭✭kleefarr


    mass_debater wrote: »
    Use only one of the double sockets, plug the homeplug direct into the other and plug the extension into the homeplug. Doing it any other way could cause problems.

    You mean use only one of the sockets for power/homeplug leaving the other unused?
    Or can I use the second of the sockets for power only?


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    #28
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    The only way you'll truly know is by trying. I've actually a set of WiFi/Ethernet passthrough homeplugs supporting an external office. The one connected to the router is plugged into one of a double socket, the other socket has an extension cord.

    The one in the office happily supports a couple of laptops and an Internet radio daily without so much of a stutter. I also use Netflix, a 360 and Wii U in there with pretty good speeds, I don't bother checking anymore because I might as well be on the home network directly.


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    #29
    kleefarr
    Registered Users Posts: 5,743 ✭✭✭kleefarr


    Ok, I think I'll try this out then.

    http://www.elara.ie/productdetail.aspx?productcode=ECE2738567

    Except I'll get it here as it costs less..

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00DHB2T44?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

    But neither of them are the passthrough type so will continue looking. :rolleyes:


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    #30
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    If you can try pay extra and get one with a pass through socket, that way you're not loosing one.


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    #31
    kleefarr
    Registered Users Posts: 5,743 ✭✭✭kleefarr


    Yes just spotted my error there.

    Something like this I guess..

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00LIZ0HPO?keywords=Tp%20Link%20powerline%20passthorugh%202%20port%20wifi%20exten&qid=1439733713&ref_=sr_1_sc_3&sr=8-3-spell

    Gone for this. Hope it works.

    http://uk.tp-link.com/products/details/cat-18_TL-PA8030P-KIT.html


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