Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

The Dissappeared: The Other Side of the Story

Options
2»

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Manassas61 wrote: »
    You can't seem to stand the truth for some bizarre reason. As if you like the PIRA or something? I don't get what is controversial about saying the PIRA murdered many innocent people and had no honor.

    *sigh* Unsurprisingly you missed the point completely. I wasn't commenting on the sentiment of your post (simplistic and stupid as I think it is), rather I was criticising the content of it. Everyone here is discussing a particular issue, offering opinions on it and backing up their views with evidence. Then you come bumbling in with the same banal, unionist rhetoric you blurt out in every thread.
    Right, you hate republicans, I get it, it's all you ever talk about, but must you copy and past the same empty tripe in every thread, even when you have nothing to add.


  • Options
    #33
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Charlie Rock wrote: »
    I have a simple question for you.

    Do you condemn the BA/RUC/UDR for colluding with mass murderers of innocent unarmed people?

    The sole purpose of the PIRA was to destabilise Northern Ireland and to kill as many people in the process, same goes for the INLA. This threat to the state was countered by the security forces, and for their efforts to combat the Provo's/INLA/UFF etc we owe them a great debt of gratitude.

    Any mass murder (dissappeared inc) was comitted by the variouus terrorist groups. PIRA, INLA, UFF, UVF etc, come to mind.


  • Options
    #34
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    LordSutch wrote: »
    This threat to the state was countered by the security forces,

    I have a simple question for you.

    Do you condemn the BA/RUC/UDR for colluding with mass murderers of innocent unarmed people?


  • Options
    #35
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Please tell me more about the mass murder of the dissappeared you speak of.


  • Options
    #36
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    LordSutch wrote: »
    The sole purpose of the PIRA was to destabilise Northern Ireland and to kill as many people in the process, same goes for the INLA. This threat to the state was countered by the security forces, and for their efforts to combat the Provo's/INLA/UFF etc we owe them a great debt of gratitude.

    Any mass murder (dissappeared inc) was comitted by the variouus terrorist groups. PIRA, INLA, UFF, UVF etc, come to mind.

    See, this type of ill informed/willfully ignorant waffle overshadows any genuine points you may have to make and detracts from the credibility of your other statements


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Charlie Rock wrote: »
    I have a simple question for you.

    Do you condemn the BA/RUC/UDR for colluding with mass murderers of innocent unarmed people?

    Another question would be at the time did he object to John Hume officially meeting Gerry Adams?


  • Options
    #38
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    See, this type of ill informed/willfully ignorant waffle overshadows any genuine points you may have to make and detracts from the credibility of your other statements

    What part of my post#33 is "ill informed/willfully ignorant waffle" ?

    WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING THE PIRA/INLA ?


  • Options
    #39
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Please tell me more about the mass murder of the dissappeared you speak of.

    The greatest source of weapons and training for loyalist paramilitaries was the UDR regiment of the BA. There was widespread collusion between your beloved security forces and degenerate Loyalist death squads. Loyalist informers were allowed murder innocent, mostly Catholic, civilians in full knowledge of their security force handlers (google 'Mark Haddock').

    Check out my post above to see well known examples of collusion between security forces and loyalist murder gangs and what's known is only the tip of the ice berg. Loyalists killed over 1000 people the vast majority of which were innocent unarmed Catholics - that's mass murder.

    Now stop pretending you don't know all this because you can't bring yourself to accept that the situation in the north at the time was not the 'Cowboys and Indians'-esque movie you have in your head.

    I'll ask you again, for the third time, do you condemn security force collusion with loyalist murder gangs?


  • Options
    #40
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    LordSutch wrote: »
    What part of my post#33 is "ill informed/willfully ignorant waffle" ?

    WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING THE PIRA/INLA ?

    Firstly, Im not defending the IRA or INLA. I have no interest in defending the INLA and the IRA don't need me to defend them.
    I'm questioning your simplistic view of the conflict and pointing out that your inability to see what happened outside your own narrow view affects the legitimacy of any claims you're trying to make about the conflict. You may very well have some astute points to make on the IRA but they are going to be overlooked because you bookend all your claims with foaming at the mout ranting about the IRA, all the while ignoring the violence of the state.

    But let's take a look at post 33
    LordSutch wrote: »
    The sole purpose of the PIRA was to destabilise Northern Ireland and to kill as many people in the process, same goes for the INLA.

    This is just patent nonsense. Even a cursory glance at the history of the IRA over the most recent phase of the conflict would show you this. The IRA killed some 1800 people over 30 years, 2/3 of whom were enemy combatants. If the plan was to kill as many people as possible why bother targeting difficult to kill state forces? Why give warning for bombs? Why such a low body count for an army that had three decades and an almost endless supply of weaponry to slaughter as many people as possible?
    The IRA have some serious questions to answer on certain actions but statements such as yours, painting them all as psychotic murderers, are firstly, blatantly wrong, and secondly, kind of let them off the hook.
    LordSutch wrote: »
    This threat to the state was countered by the security forces, and for their efforts to combat the Provo's/INLA/UFF etc we owe them a great debt of gratitude.

    The state forces were as much a player in the war as the IRA. More so given that, without wanting to get into playground politics, the state actually started the conflict. This peacekeeping myth has long been busted, only the truly self-deluding still cling to it. Charlie Rock has also provided you with ample evidence proving the state was in alliance with a number of paramilitaries, and what he posted just scratches the surface.
    LordSutch wrote: »
    Any mass murder (dissappeared inc) was comitted by the variouus terrorist groups. PIRA, INLA, UFF, UVF etc, come to mind.

    Yup, no mass murder from the state. Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy, Loughall, Dublin and Monaghan, collusion, shoot-to-kill, that was all the IRA.

    Now, I've gone to great length to answer your questions, could you please show Charlie Rock the same courtesy. He's asked three times now.


  • Options
    #41
    Manassas61
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭Manassas61


    Why give warning for bombs?
    Propaganda purposes. It obviously didn't work because they still weren't liked and they still murdered a lot of innocent people.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    I have no interest in defending the INLA and the IRA don't need me to defend them. I'm questioning your simplistic view of the conflict and pointing out that your inability to see what happened outside your own narrow view affects the legitimacy of any claims you're trying to make about the conflict.

    This thread is about the dissappeared

    The Provisional IRA made people dissappear . . . .

    They acted as judge, Jury and executioner > they then buried their victims in unmarked graves in the mountains, or the bogs, and without a word to anyone as to the fate of their loved ones, who then waited decades to know of their whereabouts! And worst of all, the PIRA denied it right up until recently. What a bunch of heroes (not) :mad:

    THATS WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT, and you can take your theories about the security forces and "mass murder" off to another thread which deals which such theories.


  • Options
    #43
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    LordSutch wrote: »
    This thread is about the dissappeared

    The Provisional IRA made people dissappear . . . .

    They acted as judge, Jury and executioner > they then buried their victims in unmarked graves in the mountains, or the bogs, and without a word to anyone as to the fate of their loved ones, who then waited decades to know of their whereabouts! And worst of all, the PIRA denied it right up until recently. What a bunch of heroes (not) :mad:

    THATS WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT, and you can take your theories about the security forces and "mass murder" off to another thread which deals which such theories.

    you raised thise issues and then when someone called you on your bullsh1t you got your panties in a twist. calm down. nobody is defending the disappeared, youd know this if you bothered actually reading other people's posts, not to mention answering the questions youre asked.


  • Options
    #44
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    nobody is defending the disappeared, youd know this if you bothered actually reading other people's posts, not to mention answering the questions youre asked.

    Exactly, that's why I am. I mean they can't speak, seeing as they have dissappeared . . .

    courtesy of the PIRA.


  • Options
    #45
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Exactly, that's why I am. I mean they can't speak, seeing as they have dissappeared . . .

    courtesy of the PIRA.

    Can you accept that people like you help fuel the PIRA's campaign?

    Do you have any ideas about how we can prevent the troubles coming back?


  • Options
    #46
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Let's just recap how we've arrived a this point where LordSutch has lost all credibility.

    You said:
    LordSutch wrote: »
    As I said, I have always supported the security forces

    I asked:
    Charlie Rock wrote: »
    I have a simple question for you.

    Do you condemn the BA/RUC/UDR for colluding with mass murderers of innocent unarmed people?

    You ignore the question and engage in whataboutery:
    LordSutch wrote: »
    The sole purpose of the PIRA was to destabilise Northern Ireland and to kill as many people in the process, same goes for the INLA. This threat to the state was countered by the security forces, and for their efforts to combat the Provo's/INLA/UFF etc we owe them a great debt of gratitude.

    Any mass murder (dissappeared inc) was comitted by the variouus terrorist groups. PIRA, INLA, UFF, UVF etc, come to mind.

    I ask again:
    Charlie Rock wrote: »
    I have a simple question for you.

    Do you condemn the BA/RUC/UDR for colluding with mass murderers of innocent unarmed people?

    You ignore the question again.
    LordSutch wrote: »
    Please tell me more about the mass murder of the dissappeared you speak of.

    I wasn't speaking of the mass murder of the disappeared - I was asking if you condemned security force collusion seeing as you 'have always supported the security forces'.
    Charlie Rock wrote: »
    *Collusion evidence* I'll ask you again, for the third time, do you condemn security force collusion with loyalist murder gangs?

    Yet again you ignore the question in favour of engaging in
    LordSutch wrote: »
    whataboutery, whataboutery, whataboutery,

    Then you back seat mod.
    and you can take your theories about the security forces and "mass murder" off to another thread which deals which such theories.

    Now you can take as much time as you like, confer with your mates by PM if you want, but let this conversation show that, as of yet, you have refused to condemn security force collusion with loyalist murder gangs.

    I'll try again.

    Do you condemn security force collusion with loyalist murder gangs?

    Simple question.


  • Options
    #47
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Can you accept that people like you help fuel the PIRA's campaign?

    Now that's just silly, so because I bang on about the PIRA and the dissappeared you say this^

    You and Crooked Jack may have many of you own questions for people like myself, who despise terrorism perpetrated by the likes of the PIRA, INLA, UFF and the UVF, but I will not deviate from defence of the dissappeared and my condemnation of the PIRA in particular, who made many of their victims dissappear.

    Goodnight, I aint biting the bait.


  • Options
    #48
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Now that's just silly, so because I bang on about the PIRA and the dissappeared you say this^

    You and Crooked Jack may have many of you own questions for people like myself, who despise terrorism (from the likes of the PIRA, INLA, UFF, UVF) but I will not deviate from defence of the dissappeared and my condemnation of the PIRA in particular who made them dissappear.

    Goodnight, I aint biting the bait.

    Actually I loathe violence and militarism of any sort. I have clearly stated before that I think that most of the PIRA's campaign was wrong- however I understand the context that created it and kept it going and I dont believe that all PIRA Volunteers were demons into killing people for fun.


  • Options
    #49
    Manassas61
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭Manassas61


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Can you accept that people like you help fuel the PIRA's campaign?

    Do you have any ideas about how we can prevent the troubles coming back?
    The fighting is not coming back. Majority are happy with remaining in the Union and we have a mandatory coalition at Stormont set up (even if it is useless).


  • Options
    #50
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Manassas61 wrote: »
    The fighting is not coming back. Majority are happy with remaining in the Union and we have a mandatory coalition at Stormont set up (even if it is useless).

    [MOD]You know, I think that's a good end note for this unhappy thread.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw[/MOD]


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement