Property Tax (MOD REMINDER: Don't get too personal)

Le_Dieux · 07-05-2013 9:37pm

Oh and can you explain something to me ma.

What has road tolls got to do with making a person a 'viable citizen'? Don't pay the tolls, and they bring you to court and sue the ass off you....

Banjo String · 07-05-2013 9:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Language, LeD! I'm very sensitive, you know.

Sensitive? Maybe.

Principled? Nope.

Banjo String · 07-05-2013 9:40pm

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Oh and can you explain something to me ma.

What has road tolls got to do with making a person a 'viable citizen'? Don't pay the tolls, and they bring you to court and sue the ass off you....

I think what she's saying is that she's unemployed?

Le_Dieux · 07-05-2013 9:41pm

Sam

This bunch of spin doctors are grasping at straws. You proved it yesterday when ma/phil used the Indo when it suited their agenda.

2 faced if ever I came across a bunch!

07-05-2013 9:41pm

SamHall wrote: »

Sensitive? Maybe.

Principled? Nope.

Principled? Hmmmm. If that means that I believe in something, such as supporting efforts to get Ireland, a wonderful country, back on its feet, then YES, I AM principled.

07-05-2013 9:42pm

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Oh and can you explain something to me ma.

What has road tolls got to do with making a person a 'viable citizen'? Don't pay the tolls, and they bring you to court and sue the ass off you....

Same as they will do if you don't pay the LPT

Banjo String · 07-05-2013 9:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Principled? Hmmmm. If that means that I believe in something, such as supporting efforts to get Ireland, a wonderful country, back on its feet, then YES, I AM principled.

Even if the party you support flat out rejected one in their pre-election manifesto as recently as 2011?

Also, do your principles get skewed at times, depending on what particular media outlet reports on something?

Le_Dieux · 07-05-2013 9:47pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Principled? Hmmmm. If that means that I believe in something, such as supporting efforts to get Ireland, a wonderful country, back on its feet, then YES, I AM principled.

OMG..and I am battling to respect your sensitivity here phil....please tell me what is wonderful about a country, that has a church trying to dictate to it's politicians ( and here I back Kenny 100% for standing up to that imbecile with a collar), to a system, which has forced me to pay PAYE ayet as a sel-employed worker can't claim a effing cent off the dole should I go belly-up, or takes no action ( so far ) on a TD who stuck 2 fingers up at revenue over a debt of over €2M, and then has another who is allowed ( well, he somehow did it) him to get penalty points quashed because he's a td??, and the gobshíte who didn't pay the €2M in VAT then says the other guy was wrong to get the points dropped?

We are a 3rd world country in everything but our location...SADLY!

Le_Dieux · 07-05-2013 9:49pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Same as they will do if you don't pay the LPT

Will you PLEASE make up your mind ma....either you under this name, or someone under another name...has said we won't vbe sued for refuasal to pay, that revenue will take from source.

Just what is the TRUTH??????

Banjo String · 07-05-2013 9:49pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Same as they will do if you don't pay the LPT

They will

I thought they'd forcibly take it from us:rolleyes:

Are you really keeping up to speed with this whole issue at all M.A or are you blindly posting information and advice hoping you're correct?

Le_Dieux · 07-05-2013 9:52pm

SamHall wrote: »

They will

I thought they'd forcibly take it from us:rolleyes:

Are you really keeping up to speed with this whole issue at all M.A or are you blindly posting information and advice hoping you're correct?

Sam, now You disappoint me..lol

Remember phil has a 2nd home in Portugal which he doesn't pay his LPT on, so am sure he's spending as much time out there away from all the flak flying around here.

These clowns are turning Kildare Street into a circus more and more each day.

07-05-2013 9:53pm

Ireland is NOT perfect, but it IS perfect for me. One day, you just may see that it is perfect for you too. Good Night and God Bless.

Le_Dieux · 07-05-2013 9:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland is NOT perfect, but it IS perfect for me. One day, you just may see that it is perfect for you too. Good Night and God Bless.

Don't know what God has to do with this, but good night ma.

Oh and while in noddy world perhaps You can dream up an answer to a question I have already asked You to prove MA...How is that Wexford link months old? When I upload it it says it's 3 hours old.

07-05-2013 9:56pm

I've just realised - LeDieux and Sam are one and the same person! Ah, well, I'll toddle off to bed and leave him/her talking to him/herself!

Banjo String · 07-05-2013 9:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland is NOT perfect, but it IS perfect for me. One day, you just may see that it is perfect for you too. Good Night and God Bless.

Well that answered nothing I asked you

Good night and God bless to you too Maryanne.

Le_Dieux · 07-05-2013 10:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I've just realised - LeDieux and Sam are one and the same person! Ah, well, I'll toddle off to bed and leave him/her talking to him/herself!

Here's a challenge MA...ASK A Mod via PM to check mine and Sa,'s ISPN addresses, that will answer Your question. I give You my permission to find out if I am the same as Sam. Now, I can't speak for Sam of course.

And, how do we know exactly who you are? I find it INCREDIBLE that dvpower has done a houdini and now it looks like that other spin doctor from Dundalk also has gone...maybe they are You too??

Oh the joys of having a suspicious mind!

Go to bed and dream me an answer to that question, will ya?

Banjo String · 07-05-2013 10:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I've just realised - LeDieux and Sam are one and the same person! Ah, well, I'll toddle off to bed and leave him/her talking to him/herself!

If you truly believe I am using a sock puppet you shopuld contact a mod, cat mod, or even an Admin.

Looks like you've just ran out of argument though, and that unfounded accusation is merely a diversion tactic......

Next you'll be shouting "we inherited your mess", "Northern Bank" or "jean McConville"

Le_Dieux · 07-05-2013 10:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I've just realised - LeDieux and Sam are one and the same person! Ah, well, I'll toddle off to bed and leave him/her talking to him/herself!

Oh and FYI MA, I am a HIM. Mid 50's male.

darkhorse · 07-05-2013 11:05pm

Phoebas wrote: »

Its in black and white in the legislation

So I heard.

darkhorse · 07-05-2013 11:19pm

Phoebas wrote: »

I don't think you appreciate the difference between an election manifesto (aspiration) and legislation (law).

Is this a new word for lies?

07-05-2013 11:23pm

Scofflaw wrote: »

There is a general tendency here for some posters to accuse others of being shills, as if the posters were posting on behalf of the government/political party/Illuminati. You do not, and cannot, know that to really be the case, unless the poster actually says it. It is not, therefore, an adequate or acceptable response to arguments posters put forward.

In case that's not clear - statements like this - are not an acceptable way of addressing someone's posts. Don't do it, it will be sanctioned.

moderately,
Scofflaw

I have banned L_D and warned another poster about this. Stop doing it, please.

08-05-2013 9:15am

I'm going to withdraw from this topic too. I seem to be a red rag to some Boards.ie Bulls. I like to look at things in a positive light. Having survived the 80's, I believe that things go in circles and good times will come again. I love Ireland. It's a great place to live. It has lots to offer. We are lucky that we have a democracy (and Boards.ie) that allows us have a healthy debate on all differing viewpoints.
Best Wishes to all Boardites.

Hijpo · 08-05-2013 2:43pm

i would have no problem paying these taxes if the taxes were used appropriately, because there is no one policing the people spending the taxes and no consequences for squandering the finances this situation is just going to snow ball.

Chips Lovell · 08-05-2013 3:03pm

Isn't that what we elect a government to do, oversee public spending?

Hijpo · 08-05-2013 3:32pm

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Isn't that what we elect a government to do, oversee public spending?

I notice youv left out the word "appropriately"

Do you think they spend appropriately in this country?
Forget trying to bring what they do in other countries into it, were talking about the Ireland and its government, past present and future.

There was nothing to make sure they spent appropriately, there still is nothing to make sure they spend appropriately and future government dont want anything to make sure they spend appropriately.

They can tell revenue to collect 80% tax if they wanted and we couldnt do anything apparently they will just take it, the more they get will only lead to far more squandering.

Chips Lovell · 08-05-2013 3:41pm

You said there was no one policing how our taxes are spent, when in fact we elect a government to do just this. If you don't like how they're being spent, you vote for someone else and hope enough of your fellow citizens agree with you. If they don't, well that's democracy for you.

Banjo String · 08-05-2013 4:09pm

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

You said there was no one policing how our taxes are spent, when in fact we elect a government to do just this. If you don't like how they're being spent, you vote for someone else and hope enough of your fellow citizens agree with you. If they don't, well that's democracy for you.

FG were voted in on the belief they were not going to introduce a property tax.

As soon as they got in they ripped up that manifesto.

Ditto banks, bankers pay and bondholders taking apt cuts.

Democracy rocks.

Chips Lovell · 08-05-2013 4:13pm

I seem to recall the Labour Party calling for one in their manifesto.

Zubeneschamali · 08-05-2013 4:29pm

SamHall wrote: »

FG were voted in on the belief they were not going to introduce a property tax.

And if just a few more people had voted for them, they might have formed a Government and enacted their policies. But lots of people voted for Labour, and so we got a coalition.

That's democracy for you: the worst system of Government, except all the others that have been tried.

Banjo String · 08-05-2013 4:30pm

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I seem to recall the Labour Party calling for one in their manifesto.

They've the majority of the seats in D.E have they

That's next up on FGs list of famous quotes.

"The Labour party made us do it"

Chips Lovell · 08-05-2013 4:36pm

Why would Labour enter government if none of their policies were implemented?

bgrizzley · 08-05-2013 4:57pm

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Why would Labour enter government if none of their policies were implemented?

Same reason they would they lie to get in Vlad.

[MOD]Argument by Youtube is not adequate.[/MOD]

Banjo String · 08-05-2013 4:59pm

bgrizzley wrote: »

Same reason they would they lie to get in Vlad.

couldn't find that clip from my mobile bg.

Phoebas · 08-05-2013 5:01pm

SamHall wrote: »

FG were voted in on the belief they were not going to introduce a property tax.

Did you believe that they would be able to prevent a property tax, given that
a) their coalition partner wanted one, and
b) the troika had already agreed one with the previous administration?

Phoebas · 08-05-2013 5:04pm

bgrizzley wrote: »

Same reason they would they lie to get in Vlad.

I like the way you chose a clip of that interview with Pat Rabbitte cut off mid sentence.
Why didn't you post the full version?

Banjo String · 08-05-2013 5:19pm

Phoebas wrote: »

Did you believe that they would be able to prevent a property tax, given that
a) their coalition partner wanted one, and
b) the troika had already agreed one with the previous administration?

I didn't vote for them, so thats irrelevant.

Why did they say say they wouldn't introduce one in their manifesto though if
" the troika had already agreed one with the previous administration?"

flutered · 08-05-2013 5:35pm

Phoebas wrote: »

I like the way you chose a clip of that interview with Pat Rabbitte cut off mid sentence.
Why didn't you post the full version?

my guess is that he did not want peeps to puke over their keyboards etc.

Hijpo · 08-05-2013 5:44pm

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

You said there was no one policing how our taxes are spent, when in fact we elect a government to do just this. If you don't like how they're being spent, you vote for someone else and hope enough of your fellow citizens agree with you. If they don't, well that's democracy for you.

Ill make it clearer for you, there is no one making sure taxes are being spent appropriately/used effectively.

Do you think our national resources and finances are being appropriately spent/used effectively by our government?

RandomName2 · 08-05-2013 5:54pm

SamHall wrote: »

FG were voted in on the belief they were not going to introduce a property tax.

As soon as they got in they ripped up that manifesto.

Ditto banks, bankers pay and bondholders taking apt cuts.

Democracy rocks.

Personally I think that manifestos should be legally binding. A contract, between the people, and the representatives that they collectively choose to hire. Is that too much to ask?

RandomName2 · 08-05-2013 5:56pm

Hijpo wrote: »

I notice youv left out the word "appropriately"

Do you think they spend appropriately in this country?

Seeing that the property tax, which this thread is about, will only cover foreign aid next year, I find it hard how anybody could answer yes to that question.

Banjo String · 08-05-2013 6:04pm

While making a manifesto legally binding might be nigh on impossible (unforeseen circumstances etc) their should however be some key points in them that the party should hold fast to. No matter what.

Labour want to raise usc for certain workers (higher paid), FG promised no tax raises during their term in govt, so that didn't happen.

FG seem to pick what points they 'compromise' on.

RandomName2 · 08-05-2013 6:09pm

SamHall wrote: »

While making a manifesto legally binding might be nigh on impossible (unforeseen circumstances etc) their should however be some key points in them that the party should hold fast to. No matter what.

Labour want to raise usc for certain workers (higher paid), FG promised no tax raises during their term in govt, so that didn't happen.

FG seem to pick what points they 'compromise' on.

They would have to be more careful in their wording, to be sure

WE WILL VOTE TO LOWER INCOME TAXES... (provided GDP growth doesn't fall below 3%)

A.O.T.W.K · 08-05-2013 6:13pm

Questioning the figures.

(1) They are once again using the wrong figure for homes/properties liable for the tax to play down the numbers, in most news articles they are saying based on 1.66 million liable, the 1.66 million figure is wrong, the real number liable is 1.9 million households including ghost estates/shared ownership schemes/council houses the current non compliance is higher then what they are letting on. (2) On the current level on home tax returns the information we don,t know which is not being given is, how many of the current home tax returns choose the deferral option in cases of an inability to pay, just because a home tax form has being returned doesn,t mean everyone has opted for payment, plus I would question how many of the current returns are landlords with multiple properties or local authorities making returns for council properties, from the article below its estimated there is 140,000 social houses are provided by local authorities in Ireland, all will be deemed liable for the home tax.

Ireland’s 140,000 social houses are provided by local authorities

http://www.eolasmagazine.ie/social-housing

Phoebas · 08-05-2013 6:15pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

Personally I think that manifestos should be legally binding. A contract, between the people, and the representatives that they collectively choose to hire. Is that too much to ask?

Yes. You'd be making coalition government virtually impossible.

What would you want to happen when two parties are in negotiations to form a government?

Phoebas · 08-05-2013 6:17pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

Seeing that the property tax, which this thread is about, will only cover foreign aid next year, I find it hard how anybody could answer yes to that question.

The LPT is covering foreign aid now!!!

Those German billionaires are going to be pissed.

Phoebas · 08-05-2013 6:20pm

A.O.T.W.K wrote: »

Questioning the figures.

(1) They are once again using the wrong figure for homes/properties liable for the tax to play down the numbers, in most news articles they are saying based on 1.66 million liable, the 1.66 million figure is wrong, the real number liable is 1.9 million households including ghost estates/shared ownership schemes/council houses the current non compliance is higher then what they are letting on. (2) On the current level on home tax returns the information we don,t know which is not being given is, how many of the current home tax returns choose the deferral option in cases of an inability to pay, just because a home tax form has being returned doesn,t mean everyone has opted for payment, plus I would question how many of the current returns are landlords with multiple properties or local authorities making returns for council properties, from the article below its estimated there is 140,000 social houses are provided by local authorities in Ireland, all will be deemed liable for the home tax.

Ireland’s 140,000 social houses are provided by local authorities

http://www.eolasmagazine.ie/social-housing

A bit dishonest to truncate the quote, no?

Ireland’s 140,000 social houses are provided by local authorities and non- profit housing associations

Hijpo · 08-05-2013 8:06pm

Phoebas wrote: »

A bit dishonest to truncate the quote, no?

Not necessarily if they provided a link to the full article where the line can be read in full.
The poster is dishonest for trimming a line, yet there is so much lies being spouted from the Dáil none of them know what story to stick to and everything is alright, infact give them more money without question immediately lol thats priceless.

Banjo String · 08-05-2013 8:16pm

Phoebas wrote: »

The LPT is covering foreign aid now!!!

Those German billionaires are going to be pissed.

I think . Random name was implying that the govt expects to collect the same revenue from an lpt on par with what it will spend on foreign aid next year.

The country being bankrupt and all, maybe charity should begin right here at home for a few years until the economy improves. Likewise with the lpt.

Have you given any further thought as to why FG decided to write the property tax= not happening into the manifesto, despite "the troika having already agreeing one with the previous administration"?

Is that what a party does in an election?

Phoebas · 08-05-2013 8:42pm

SamHall wrote: »

Have you given any further thought as to why FG decided to write the property tax= not happening into the manifesto, despite "the troika having already agreeing one with the previous administration"?

They didn't.
They proposed some alternatives including a “site sale profits tax”. Maybe they felt that they'd be able to negotiate changes with the troika. Personally I think any of the FG alternatives would be difficult to achieve.

I guess you could ask the same querstion of any of the other parties who are against the HHC / LPT.

darkhorse · 09-05-2013 12:10am

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I seem to recall the Labour Party calling for one in their manifesto.

Yeah, a site value tax, I believe.

Property Tax (MOD REMINDER: Don't get too personal)

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