Lee Carsely Syndrome

geeky · 14-02-2012 12:56pm #1

Lee Carsely Syndrome
(n): A phenomena where it becomes such an accepted fact that a certain player is ‘underrated’ by the world at large that the public perception of his abilities becomes wildly inflated.

Lee Carsely was a solid pro. Not a world beater, but he did a job within a team, and was very effective on his day. But particularly during his Everton career, it became an article of faith that he was totally underrated, until eventually people started thinking he was a world-beater. Which he wasn’t. I’ve been thinking of similar players that this has happened to. What are your nominations?

My suggestions
Dennis Wise (very competent but not international standard)
Stuart Downing
Jamie Carragher (a genuinely good player but, for a while, people acted like he was the second coming of Bobby Moore)
Phil Neville
Jack Rodwell
Kevin Doyle
Kevin Hunt
Most of the Ireland team from 2002

_blank_ · 14-02-2012 1:00pm

Gravesen.

kryogen · 14-02-2012 1:02pm

Jack Rodwell not a bit harsh?

ASOT · 14-02-2012 1:05pm

Messi

kryogen · 14-02-2012 1:05pm

Park Ji Sung
Baines
Kuyt

Beefy78 · 14-02-2012 1:06pm

I'm not sure anyone on that list was particularly overrated, or was particularly built up as being that great. Maybe Carragher, although I'm sure Liverpool fans will defend him.

I'm slightly surprised having just looked it up that Dennis Wise got 21 caps. He was competing with the likes of Geoff Thomas and Andy Gray for a game though. He was hardly built up as the answer to England's problems. Neville has always been solid for United, Everton and England. It's slightly offensive that he's got so many more caps than better players but if anything he's underrated as he's better than he's often portrayed as being.

It's too early to state either way with Rodwell.

kryogen · 14-02-2012 1:07pm

ASOT wrote: »

Messi

Very much so, wouldnt get a game for Waterford United, looks good in Spain but could he do it on a cold wet Monday night in Stoke?

I very much think not

Morzadec · 14-02-2012 1:07pm

Well noted phenomenon. I remember thinking about this before, but not many names are coming into my head at the moment...

Perhaps Dirk Kuyt (by some) could be relevant here...
Another maybe is Maxi.

I'll try think of some non-Liverpool ones later

Orando Broom · 14-02-2012 1:08pm

ASOT wrote: »

Messi

Overrated. Refuses to work the channels.

_blank_ · 14-02-2012 1:09pm

Players like Psrk ji-Sung, Dirk Kuyt - "grafters" but unspectacular are absolutely vital players.

keano_afc · 14-02-2012 1:12pm

Might get slated for this, but I think Phil Jones falls into this category at the moment. Yes, he's got potential. But its been blown so far out of proportion by some United fans and the English press that you'd think Franz Beckenbauer was back playing again. He seems like he might be a decent player one day. Lets leave it at that.

Nuri Sahin · 14-02-2012 1:14pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

I'm not sure anyone on that list was particularly overrated, or was particularly built up as being that great. Maybe Carragher, although I'm sure Liverpool fans will defend him.

I'm slightly surprised having just looked it up that Dennis Wise got 21 caps. He was competing with the likes of Geoff Thomas and Andy Gray for a game though. He was hardly built up as the answer to England's problems. Neville has always been solid for United, Everton and England. It's slightly offensive that he's got so many more caps than better players but if anything he's underrated as he's better than he's often portrayed as being.

It's too early to state either way with Rodwell.

Well, for 2 seasons (04/05, namely in the Champions League and 05/06 alongside Hypia) he was brilliant. Extremely limited footballer of course but as an out an out defender I can't fault him for much if for anything during that period. Unlucky to have the likes of Rio and Terry in front of him in the England pecking order.

kryogen · 14-02-2012 1:15pm

Des wrote: »

Players like Psrk ji-Sung, Dirk Kuyt - "grafters" but unspectacular are absolutely vital players.

I mentioned both of them so Ill answer this

I didnt say they werent! I think they are vital players to have in the squad and all teams that want to be successful need players like them to achieve it.

You will find, in waves alot of United supports over the years go build Park up to be more then he is, then the wave recedes, then builds again! Same with Kuyt and Liverpool fans, this doesnt mean they are not good players.

Simply that they become built up too much at times.

Orando Broom · 14-02-2012 1:15pm

Des wrote: »

Players like Psrk ji-Sung, Dirk Kuyt - "grafters" but unspectacular are absolutely vital players.

Agreed. Though I think Kuyt gets more love form managers than his talent is entitled to. He is a great squad player but for me no more.

I am going to get HAMMERED for this but; Darren Fletcher. I think he is one of the most over-rated players ever to wear a United Jersey. I think he is an aboslute liability. I simply do not know what people see in him. I think his positional sence is so bad that he makes those around him (most notably Carrick) look bad. I think there is no coincidence that Carrick's return to form has come about with fletcher's absence. He is a plucky trier but no more. He is a squad player at his maximum at United and no more.

kryogen · 14-02-2012 1:17pm

keano_afc wrote: »

Might get slated for this, but I think Phil Jones falls into this category at the moment. Yes, he's got potential. But its been blown so far out of proportion by some United fans and the English press that you'd think Franz Beckenbauer was back playing again. He seems like he might be a decent player one day. Lets leave it at that.

Now I take issue with the last part, he actually seems like he is going to be one hell of a player!

All young English players get over hyped when they are young. He is not a world class centre back right now, but he is also not developed yet, so cant really be judged in this kind of thing.

Orando Broom · 14-02-2012 1:18pm

keano_afc wrote: »

Might get slated for this, but I think Phil Jones falls into this category at the moment. Yes, he's got potential. But its been blown so far out of proportion by some United fans and the English press that you'd think Franz Beckenbauer was back playing again. He seems like he might be a decent player one day. Lets leave it at that.

The guy is 19. Come back to this thread in four years. He has played some games for Blackburn and United where he has been phenomonal and some where he has not. He is a child. He needs time to develop his game and thus it is unfair to label him. The same could be said about Oxlade Chamberlain if you decuided to forensically pick apart his meagre game time for Arsenal. Young players need to be judged so differently to a pro of ten years. Seriously.

carlop · 14-02-2012 1:27pm

Someone like Jones would never have been underrated though.

I'm going to open a can of worms here, but I think Lucas may have fully crossed the 'under-to-over' line. The guy is a very good player, but he's gone from being ridiculously slated to getting mentioned as the best defensive midfielder in the world.

Where To · 14-02-2012 2:00pm

Vinnie Jones.

Xavi6 · 14-02-2012 2:02pm

theteal · 14-02-2012 2:04pm

geeky wrote: »

Lee Carsely Syndrome
(n): A phenomena where it becomes such an accepted fact that a certain player is ‘underrated’ by the world at large that the public perception of his abilities becomes wildly inflated.

Lee Carsely was a solid pro. Not a world beater, but he did a job within a team, and was very effective on his day. But particularly during his Everton career, it became an article of faith that he was totally underrated, until eventually people started thinking he was a world-beater. Which he wasn’t. I’ve been thinking of similar players that this has happened to. What are your nominations?

My suggestions
Dennis Wise (very competent but not international standard)
Stuart Downing
Jamie Carragher (a genuinely good player but, for a while, people acted like he was the second coming of Bobby Moore)
Phil Neville
Jack Rodwell
Kevin Doyle
Kevin Hunt
Most of the Ireland team from 2002

The bohs player? he was actually good for LOI level. If you mean headless stephen hunt, no, he's just sh!te

wheres me jumpa · 14-02-2012 2:14pm

Charlie Adam
Jimmy Bullard
Kevin Davies
Darren Fletcher
Danny Murphy

I am pie · 14-02-2012 2:23pm

A whole host of midfielders announced as the next Makele. Pick a name !

kryogen · 14-02-2012 2:27pm

I am pie wrote: »

A whole host of midfielders announced as the next Makele. Pick a name !

Jack Wilshire according to Fabio Capello!

EdenHazard · 14-02-2012 2:34pm

This is Makelele syndrome, he was the most rated underrated player of all time. Everyone was like he's underrated but he was so overrated that the dm position seems to not have existed before he went to chelsea

Raskolnikov · 14-02-2012 2:39pm

Scott Parker. He's a decent and solid player, who I actually really do like. But he's also incredibly lucky to be in such a strong team that is set up perfectly for him. I bet he won't be as effective in the English team come the Euro's.

Turtyturd · 14-02-2012 2:45pm

kryogen wrote: »

Very much so, wouldnt get a game for Waterford United, looks good in Spain but could he do it on a cold wet Monday night in Stoke?

I very much think not

The assumption that this is funny is very over rated.

Player wise Jones is the current one...when people point out he is not that great they are told to give him time because he is young. Although his fanboys consider him old enough to be world class.

noodler · 14-02-2012 2:49pm

geeky wrote: »

Most of the Ireland team from 2002

Hmm, Finnan and Stan were excellent at the time. Duff, Keane and Given too.

Breen had a great world cup (Harte had a shocking one). Kilbane seemed okay.

The unspectacular midfield of Holland and Kinsella performed well above expectations.

I'm really not sure that 2002 team has been overrated (Especially when it is minus Carr and Roy Keane).

wheres me jumpa · 14-02-2012 2:50pm

Turtyturd wrote: »

The assumption that this is funny is very over rated.

Player wise Jones is the current one...when people point out he is not that great they are told to give him time because he is young. Although his fanboys consider him old enough to be world class.

But Jones would be of the over rated veriety?

I think the OP is referring to players where by being underrated they become exceptional talents.

kryogen · 14-02-2012 3:04pm

Turtyturd wrote: »

The assumption that this is funny is very over rated.

Player wise Jones is the current one...when people point out he is not that great they are told to give him time because he is young. Although his fanboys consider him old enough to be world class.

As Im sure I wouldnt have to tell you, you get numpties on all sides of a debate

billymitchell · 14-02-2012 3:14pm

Lucas

SlickRic · 14-02-2012 3:16pm

billymitchell wrote: »

Lucas

the only man that can go from underrated to overrated within the space of about 6 months.

Morzadec · 14-02-2012 3:17pm

Jones doesn't fit in here at all because he was never touted as someone who was underrated. You can say he's an overrated player but he's definitely not affected by Lee Carlsley Syndrome!

Fletcher might be one - a figure of fun for a while, then his value to the team was realised and he was bigged up by some as the most important player in the squad, which is probably an exaggeration.

I can see why Lucas has been mentioned due to some of the comments on this forum. Personally I believe that he was beginning to show the performances to be touted amongst the top 5/10 in his position in Europe but it was probably too early to say that. If he had continued his level of performance all through this season without getting injured I feel it would have been difficult to argue against him being one of the best DMs in the world. If you look at his tackle/interception stats though, they are among the best in the game. Hopefully when he comes back he will continue his performances and the Lee Carsley Syndrome won't apply for him.

Liam O · 14-02-2012 3:24pm

Turtyturd wrote: »

The assumption that this is funny is very over rated.

Player wise Jones is the current one...when people point out he is not that great they are told to give him time because he is young. Although his fanboys consider him old enough to be world class.

I would honestly love to see your opinions on him had he moved to Liverpool over United. He has surpassed my expectations for his first season already, be it in different positions than I expected, you can't ask for more than that. He was never underrated either.

noodler · 14-02-2012 3:26pm

Liam O wrote: »

I would honestly love to see your opinions on him had he moved to Liverpool over United. He has surpassed my expectations for his first season already, be it in different positions than I expected, you can't ask for more than that. He was never underrated either.

I agree that he has surpassed my own expectations as well but, partly because he is English no doubt, there was a good deal of high comparions being made in Nov/Dec.

AgileMyth · 14-02-2012 3:27pm

I'll get slated for this but Scholes to a degree. He was underrated for a long time, when fans began to appreciate the job he was doing he became hyped to a ridiculous level. Heard United fans claiming he was one of the greatest players of all time, which is nonsense.

markesmith · 14-02-2012 3:27pm

In before 'Scott Parker' - I thought he suffered from LCS (as we in the industry call it

) but he's all that and more.

kryogen · 14-02-2012 3:29pm

AgileMyth wrote: »

I'll get slated for this but Scholes to a degree. He was underrated for a long time, when fans began to appreciate the job he was doing he became hyped to a ridiculous level. Heard United fans claiming he was one of the greatest players of all time, which is nonsense.

I think you will find its not just United fans that hold Scholes in very high esteem.

Treat yourself to a bit of time with www.google.com

kryogen · 14-02-2012 3:32pm

markesmith wrote: »

In before 'Scott Parker' - I thought he suffered from LCS (as we in the industry call it ) but he's all that and more.

Sorry to break it to ya mate

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Scott Parker. He's a decent and solid player, who I actually really do like. But he's also incredibly lucky to be in such a strong team that is set up perfectly for him. I bet he won't be as effective in the English team come the Euro's.

token101 · 14-02-2012 3:38pm

Stephen Ireland.

In the City team when Sven was there that kind of way he was in the team with Elano and Robinho and was clearly doing well but it was always Elano that got the headlines, especially with the freekicks. So people start calling him 'underrated'. Then he dropped off for a few years, and has eventually found some form at Villa, but that's his level, he's not a world beater like a lot of Irish fans think. He just has a lot better technique than many Irish players, but hasn't the heart or the graft.

pickarooney · 14-02-2012 3:42pm

Jussi Jaaskelainen

"How has a big club not come in for him?" they asked repeatedly, scratching their heads. Because he was decent, but not a superb keeper.

steelcityblues · 14-02-2012 3:44pm

Tony Hibbert from 2004-05.

Calls for him to be an England full back, and so on.

I am pie · 14-02-2012 3:49pm

Tiny Tim Cahill.

POKERKING · 14-02-2012 3:50pm

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Scott Parker. He's a decent and solid player, who I actually really do like. But he's also incredibly lucky to be in such a strong team that is set up perfectly for him. I bet he won't be as effective in the English team come the Euro's.

Spot on, now the most over rated player in the premiership. The truth lies right between hes a good player not great but also not **** like he was labelled after he left Chelsea.

POKERKING · 14-02-2012 3:52pm

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ah come on Xavi, He is still one of most underrated players around, i dont no one person who over rates barry, even some city fans dont rate him when its obvious how important he is to the team.

token101 · 14-02-2012 5:03pm

Clint Dempsey. He's good. But he's not, or wouldn't have been at one two or three years ago at least, an Arsenal player. Same for Mark Schwarzer.

Frisbee · 14-02-2012 5:08pm

Darren Fletcher.

Underrated until the 09 Champions League final which he missed.

Then as soon as he was suspended he was some sort of second coming of Jesus Christ who had mega football skills.

Good player, model pro and a vital part of Uniteds team, but people's estimation of him sky rocketed as soon as he didn't get to play that final.

Raskolnikov · 14-02-2012 6:31pm

markesmith wrote: »

In before 'Scott Parker' - I thought he suffered from LCS (as we in the industry call it ) but he's all that and more.

My thoughts are that if Bale or Modric got injured, both players are simply irreplaceable to this Spurs team. However, if Parker got injured, I could think of a few who could step up to the mark (Livermore, Sandro). Parker is certainly a good player, but he isn't a special player like Modric or Bale.

Paul Tergat · 14-02-2012 6:34pm

I think a lot of examples given are just cases of form/players maturing or hitting their peak unless im missing something?

Kiwi_knock · 14-02-2012 9:27pm

Bobby Zamora, a good bottom half PL striker but a few seasons ago there was massive media calls for his inclusion into the English team for the World Cup. It might be a bit harsh considering he has suffered from a series of injuries but he was a decent player whose performances got blown out of proportion.

Roger Johnson and Scott Dann are two other recent examples. Very underrated in their first season in the PL but the hype machine kicked in during their second season. They were being linked with all the top teams and Johnson was being labelled as Terry's replacement. Both players are playing at teams now at their level. They have both proven the hype that surrounds any English player who has a good season.

Lumbo · 14-02-2012 9:42pm

kryogen wrote: »

Baines

Christ.

Luap · 14-02-2012 10:29pm

Pique.

Lee Carsely Syndrome

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