Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

FF finally offering reasons to vote Yes

Options
  • 09-06-2008 6:58pm
    #1
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭


    Well, finally a little positivity from FF:

    The Lisbon Reform Treaty will deliver important benefits for Ireland:
    •It secures Ireland as a centre for Foreign Investment and Job Creation and retains our Tax Veto. (Article 93 & 113)
    • It allows the EU work for us in ensuring vital Energy Supplies in the years ahead. (Article 194)
    • It provides the strongest ever protection for our Neutrality. (Article 11 & 28)
    • It provides for greater EU involvement in UN-sanctioned peacekeeping in line with Ireland’s proud tradition. (Article 28)
    • It introduces a new Charter of Rights to promote the interests of all citizens such as ensuring a high level of employment, education and social protection. (Article 2 & 6)
    • It ensures that the Irish people alone will decide on laws to protect the unborn. (Maastricht Protocol and Article 6)
    • It gives Ireland and small countries full equality in the European Commission with even the largest countries like Germany and Britain. (Article 244)
    • It increases Your Say in Decisions by expanding the role of democratically elected parliaments (Article 8C) including giving the European Parliament an extra role in 40 new policy areas. (Article 233)
    • It allows police forces to work together against Cross Border Crime, like drug and people trafficking. (Article 77)
    • It introduces a Citizens’ Initiative which gives you the right to help set the agenda of the EU. (Article 8B)

    From the FF website (the link is fairly obvious), and, according to them, also available by texting Lisbon and your email address to 087 311 1313.

    Nice to see a bit of effort online at least, even if it is a little late in the day.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    Very late in the day... it's a race now.


  • Options
    #3
    Daftendirekt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Daftendirekt


    You never know, it might be timely enough to change some of the naysayers' minds...

    I wonder if they'd taken that approach sooner would Lisbon have more support now?


  • Options
    #4
    billy the squid
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭billy the squid


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Well, finally a little positivity from FF:

    The Lisbon Reform Treaty will deliver important benefits for Ireland:
    •It secures Ireland as a centre for Foreign Investment and Job Creation and retains our Tax Veto. (Article 93 & 113)

    It doesn't say how though. Here is article 93 of the lisbon treaty.
    93) Article 107 shall be amended as follows:
    (a) paragraphs 1 and 2 shall be deleted and paragraphs 3, 4, 5 and 6 shall be renumbered 1,
    2, 3 and 4 respectively;
    (b) in paragraph 4, renumbered 2, the words ‘Statute of the ESCB’ shall be replaced by the
    following: ‘Statute of the European System of Central Banks and of the European Central
    Bank, hereinafter referred to as “Statute of the ESCB and of the ECB”’;
    (c) paragraph 5, renumbered 3, shall be replaced by the following:
    ‘3. Articles 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 17, 18, 19.1, 22, 23, 24, 26, 32.2, 32.3, 32.4, 32.6, 33.1(a)
    and 36 of the Statute of the ESCB and of the ECB may be amended by the European
    Parliament and the Council, acting in accordance with the ordinary legislative procedure.
    They shall act either on a recommendation from the European Central Bank and after
    consulting the Commission or on a proposal from the Commission and after consulting
    the European Central Bank.’.

    Article 107 of what?
    • It allows the EU work for us in ensuring vital Energy Supplies in the years ahead. (Article 194)
    194) In Article 209, the words ‘receiving an opinion from’ shall be replaced by ‘consulting’.

    Article 209 of what?

    I could go through the whole list, but the list ff provides is no help whatsoever.


  • Options
    #5
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    billy the squid wrote: »
    It doesn't say how though. Here is article 93 of the lisbon treaty.

    Article 107 of what?

    Article 209 of what?

    I could go through the whole list, but the list ff provides is no help whatsoever.

    Looking at it, you want the 'official' consolidated version of the Treaty, as published by the Eu - available here - second one down, the "consolidated version".

    • It allows the EU work for us in ensuring vital Energy Supplies in the years ahead. (Article 194)

    This is Article 194:
    1. In the context of the establishment and functioning of the internal market and with regard for the need to preserve and improve the environment, Union policy on energy shall aim, in a spirit of solidarity between Member States, to:
    (a) ensure the functioning of the energy market;
    (b) ensure security of energy supply in the Union;*
    (c) promote energy efficiency and energy saving and the development of new and renewable forms of energy; and
    (d) promote the interconnection of energy networks.
    2. Without prejudice to the application of other provisions of the Treaties, the European Parliament and the Council, acting in accordance with the ordinary legislative procedure, shall establish the measures necessary to achieve the objectives in paragraph 1. Such measures shall be adopted after consultation of the Economic and Social Committee and the Committee of the Regions.
    Such measures shall not affect a Member State's right to determine the conditions for exploiting its energy resources, its choice between different energy sources and the general structure of its energy supply, without prejudice to Article 192(2)(c).
    3. By way of derogation from paragraph 2, the Council, acting in accordance with a special legislative procedure, shall unanimously and after consulting the European Parliament, establish the measures referred to therein when they are primarily of a fiscal nature.

    Ahead of the inevitable attempts at tarring and feathering, let me point out that I didn't write these, nor am I publishing them on behalf of Fianna Fáil - I am publishing them because they exist, and someone drew my attention to them. However, I will endeavour to defend them insofar as I think they're correct.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Options
    #6
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Its a sign of how poorly prepared they were that three days before polling the main parties actually held a joint press conference. I think they'll sneak it.

    Mike.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    i agree I think they will pull it by the voting population outside dublin.


  • Options
    #8
    FrankGrimes
    Registered Users Posts: 4,028 ✭✭✭FrankGrimes


    BlitzKrieg wrote: »
    i agree I think they will pull it by the voting population outside dublin.

    Interesting point - what are the polls currently indicating as in is Dublin leaning No or Yes? I'd hope it would be voting Yes but this has been a terrible campaign so I fear for the result, particularly given what I see as a No campaign based only very loosely on reality.


  • Options
    #9
    pyrogenx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 832 ✭✭✭pyrogenx


    Well those may be the few positive points of the threaty in order encourage people to vote yes, but what about the rest of it. All the negative influences the threaty is going to spread still easly outweight these, the list is endless.


  • Options
    #10
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    pyrogenx wrote: »
    Well those may be the few positive points of the threaty in order encourage people to vote yes, but what about the rest of it. All the negative influences the threaty is going to spread still easly outweight these, the list is endless.

    Do you have another list of big bad scary things?
    FF are in favour of treaty , so why would they undermine their position?


  • Options
    #11
    ateam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 986 ✭✭✭ateam


    pyrogenx wrote: »
    Well those may be the few positive points of the threaty in order encourage people to vote yes, but what about the rest of it. All the negative influences the threaty is going to spread still easly outweight these, the list is endless.

    We should just leave the EU altogether because we're not going to have it our way. Is that your opinion?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    ircoha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭ircoha


    s
    shall aim, in a spirit of solidarity between Member States, to:
    ensure security of energy supply in the Union

    Can you imagine the Poles/germanys/ French/Brits/ letting us have our share of energy supply from Russia when the ..it hits the fan.

    We have a strategic oil reserve of 90 days.
    You would expect that it would be stored in Whiddy/Bantry etc.

    There is 10 days down there, 25 in UK and the balance in France, and we have to provide transport:o

    Our gas comes in one pipe from Scotland and while we have some gas reserves stored in Kinsale, we dont have the infrastructure to bring it in fast enough so if the pipe from Scotland severs we will be dancing in the dark in 3/4 hours.
    Sleep well, in a spirit of solidarity


  • Options
    #13
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    ircoha wrote: »
    s

    Can you imagine the Poles/germanys/ French/Brits/ letting us have our share of energy supply from Russia when the ..it hits the fan.

    We have a strategic oil reserve of 90 days.
    You would expect that it would be stored in Whiddy/Bantry etc.

    There is 10 days down there, 25 in UK and the balance in France, and we have to provide transport:o

    Our gas comes in one pipe from Scotland and while we have some gas reserves stored in Kinsale, we dont have the infrastructure to bring it in fast enough so if the pipe from Scotland severs we will be dancing in the dark in 3/4 hours.
    Sleep well, in a spirit of solidarity

    Meh - as I've just pointed out on another thread, most Irish people (69% in Autumn 2007) favour an all-EU energy policy. What you're actually describing is what happens if there isn't one - we don't have to be taken into account. If there's an all-EU policy, we get our share. If there isn't, the other countries can suit themselves first - and we are totally oil-dependent on imports.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Options
    #14
    edanto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    ircoha wrote: »
    s
    Our gas comes in one pipe from Scotland and while we have some gas reserves stored in Kinsale, we dont have the infrastructure to bring it in fast enough so if the pipe from Scotland severs we will be dancing in the dark in 3/4 hours.

    That's pretty clearly a national management issue and if you feel stongly about it, you might have success gathering support at a Dail election. I agree with you that it's a worrying risk, but it has nothing to do with Lisbon!


  • Options
    #15
    FionnMatthew
    Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭FionnMatthew


    Scofflaw wrote:
    • It ensures that the Irish people alone will decide on laws to protect the unborn. (Maastricht Protocol and Article 6)
    Oh dear. The wording in that alone is likely to be inflammatory.
    • It allows police forces to work together against Cross Border Crime, like drug and people trafficking. (Article 77)
    This is my prime worry, because certain of the crimes that might fall under that label are not to be considered crimes at all, in my book, for instance: copyright violation. See Lisbon Treaty. Computer Crime?


  • Options
    #16
    billy the squid
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭billy the squid


    BlitzKrieg wrote: »
    i agree I think they will pull it by the voting population outside dublin.

    Alot of protest voters outside of Dublin though. whether you agree they should use their vote to protest or not, doesnt change the fact that they are there. you got the sligo hospital protesters and the Shannon-heathrow beligerants down here.

    The Sunday Business Post poll showed that they were most opposed to the treaty in Munster.


  • Options
    #17
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Ah yes, but in Munster they're still bitching about the Irish constitution.


  • Options
    #18
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    also as a munster man, i know that they who bitch the most dont tend to vote


  • Options
    #19
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    pyrogenx wrote: »
    All the negative influences the threaty is going to spread still easly outweight these, the list is endless.
    Care to provide some examples? Shouldn't be too difficult if there are so many.


Advertisement