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Identify WW2 vehicle

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  • 23-11-2014 4:07pm
    #1
    shar01
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    Attached is photo of my great grand uncle with a vehicle I'd like to identify - in the hope it will lead to where he served. There are conflicting stories in the family about where he served - either India or Egypt.

    As always, many thanks for any help.

    Regards,

    Sharon


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    #2
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,437 ✭✭✭weisses


    Looks like a dodge d60


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    #3
    shar01
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭shar01


    Thanks - I'd been searching British brands such as Leyland so I'll take a look at US makes.

    The Dodge you mention is the closest I've seen.

    Thanks again.

    S


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    #4
    brandnewaward
    Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭brandnewaward


    send on any info you can. dates , units , etc . could give it a crack as i would be fairly clued into the campaign in the desert


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    #5
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    weisses wrote: »
    Looks like a dodge d60

    I can see why you'd say that, it does look similar to a dodge but it struck me that it looked like a bigger version of the trucks that the LRDG used.

    And indeed it does seem to be, the LRDG used the three-quarter ton version while this appears to be the 1.5 ton version of a Chevrolet truck http://www.trucksplanet.com/catalog/model.php?id=1131

    Doing some further digging it seems that trucks of this type were also manufactured by Chevrolet Australia and were in widespread service with British and Commonwealth forces through the mid-east which would tie in with what the OP was saying http://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=features&file=view&artid=2844

    The Germans also seem to have used captured versions and many were also exported to the Soviet Union. You sure your grand-uncle wasn't a kraut or a commie OP? j/k :D


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    #6
    shar01
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭shar01


    brandnewaward wrote: »
    send on any info you can. dates , units , etc . could give it a crack as i would be fairly clued into the campaign in the desert

    Sorry - bar the photo I've nothing. When I was younger, my grandmother said he was in Africa.


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    #7
    shar01
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭shar01


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    I can see why you'd say that, it does look similar to a dodge but it struck me that it looked like a bigger version of the trucks that the LRDG used.

    And indeed it does seem to be, the LRDG used the three-quarter ton version while this appears to be the 1.5 ton version of a Chevrolet truck http://www.trucksplanet.com/catalog/model.php?id=1131

    Doing some further digging it seems that trucks of this type were also manufactured by Chevrolet Australia and were in widespread service with British and Commonwealth forces through the mid-east which would tie in with what the OP was saying http://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=features&file=view&artid=2844

    The Germans also seem to have used captured versions and many were also exported to the Soviet Union. You sure your grand-uncle wasn't a kraut or a commie OP? j/k :D

    Thanks a million!

    With both vertical and horizontal bars on the grill, the 1941 chevy yr does look the best match.

    Regarding Martin being a commie or kraut - at this stage I'm ruling nothing out :D

    Thanks again to ye all!


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    #8
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Don't know if this is already in the mix but that looks like an RAF roundel on the front left and it looks like an aircraft in the background.

    Was he in the RAF?


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    #9
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    shar01 wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Attached is photo of my great grand uncle with a vehicle I'd like to identify - in the hope it will lead to where he served. There are conflicting stories in the family about where he served - either India or Egypt.

    As always, many thanks for any help.

    Regards,

    Sharon

    Is it possible he was in 'both'

    The '6' on the fender could relate to the 6th Rajputana Rifles, an Eighth Army formation.


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    #10
    shar01
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭shar01


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    Don't know if this is already in the mix but that looks like an RAF roundel on the front left and it looks like an aircraft in the background.

    Was he in the RAF?

    I've spent so much time focusing on the truck, I've only looked at the rest of the photo now. It does look like part of a wing - as seen from behind.

    Looks like Saturday afternoon will be given up to ancestry / findmypast et al. Is there a help group for family tree addicts? :)

    Many thanks,

    Sharon


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    #11
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    shar01 wrote: »
    I've spent so much time focusing on the truck, I've only looked at the rest of the photo now. It does look like part of a wing - as seen from behind.

    Many thanks,

    Sharon

    Looking in more detail - it looks like a Martin Baltimore light bomber - looking at the upper turret and shape of the engine nacelle.


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    #12
    shar01
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭shar01


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Looking in more detail - it looks like a Martin Baltimore light bomber - looking at the upper turret and shape of the engine nacelle.

    Jeeze - ye have all been fantastic - so generous with your time and expertise!

    Thanks again,

    S.


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    #13
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    shar01 wrote: »
    Jeeze - ye have all been fantastic - so generous with your time and expertise!

    Thanks again,

    S.

    Nothing like a good mystery!!

    His jacket looks like something the RAF wearing in the Western Desert.

    Also, maybe check this out (note the 6 and the Roundel).....

    Chevrolet1large.JPG
    This was known as a Breadvan, but think it may have been a Chevrolet of some sort. The radiator grill is very similar to that of the next set of pictures that I was told were long nosed Chevys. Note the use of the canvas against the side of the vehicle to provide shelter. As mentioned above, look how tatty the piece of canvas is. The second picture in the group shows Bill Moody in his best desert wear sorting out a canvas bag. The raised portion on the roof shows the masts for the radio antenna. The fourth picture in the group shows the mast extended. The interior shot shows the basic conditions in which the operators worked, in this case Vic Taylor of the RAF. Swivel chairs were an unknown luxury! The vans were used in these photographs by the 2/5 Army Air Support Control during 1942 in the "desert". The last photo though is thought to be taken in Cairo, Egypt.

    Taken from http://www.southcumbrianorthlancsmvt.org.uk/archive.htm


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    #14
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    He is also wearing shoes and not boots. Officer perhaps?


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    #15
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Looking in more detail - it looks like a Martin Baltimore light bomber - looking at the upper turret and shape of the engine nacelle.

    The turret shape does look similar alright but I got to thinking that in that picture it looks a bit too level to be a tail-dragger? I was thinking it might be a Douglas Boston or a given the way the turret is placed in relation to the wing, a B-25 Mitchell

    There's a list of Desert Airforce Squadrons at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Air_Force . If the aircraft type was identified then the OP could probably check up the unit histories of the squadrons using it and find out what airfields they used. Any idea if your grand-uncle was in a logistics unit or something?

    Interesting little puzzle you set there anyway OP, let us know if you find out any more :D


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    #16
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Looking in more detail - it looks like a Martin Baltimore light bomber - looking at the upper turret and shape of the engine nacelle.
    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    The turret shape does look similar alright but I got to thinking that in that picture it looks a bit too level to be a tail-dragger? I was thinking it might be a Douglas Boston or a given the way the turret is placed in relation to the wing, a B-25 Mitchell

    There's a list of Desert Airforce Squadrons at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Air_Force . If the aircraft type was identified then the OP could probably check up the unit histories of the squadrons using it and find out what airfields they used. Any idea if your grand-uncle was in a logistics unit or something?

    Interesting little puzzle you set there anyway OP, let us know if you find out any more :D

    I was going to say, I dont think its the original aircraft mentioned, I thought maybe an A 26, but upon looking dont think so either, for one the fuselage looks too narrow for the Baltimore, the antenna ahead of the turret is not on the aircraft in the background image, although that might be a different type or simply removed. I think it is still too samll an aircraft for a B-25 or even a B-26 which I also considered but I think they might be too big of an aircraft. It seems a much smaller twin engined aircraft as the engine cowling with the exhaust stain doesnt even extend back as for as the trailing edge of the wing.

    I actually thought the blur beneath the turret was the undercarriage strut originally, but now thing the undercarriage leg is hidden be bonnet of the truck.
    Unless its on jacks/maintenance? and is a tail dragger? seems a very narrow fuselage and the turret position is wrong for both the B-26 (is further back?) and B-25 (is further forward, I think back also).
    Im a bit stumped as it looks US, and it seems around the size of an A-26, plus theres the unusual cowling cover (flight control?) near the trailing edge.

    Its hardly a german aircraft at a captured airfield? they had some pencil thin designs in twins, not so sure they were big on turrets though


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    #17
    lurker2000
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭lurker2000


    Hi Sharon - preliminary results from posting it on other forums are in. I'm putting their views on the thread for members here to give their verdict as I know nothing on the subject. I mentioned you knew nothing about your relative other than he served in Africa or India.

    Truck identified as :

    It's a 4x2 Chevrolet "longnose"! Which makes it an Allied item

    Plane was also spotted and identified as :

    A B24 Liberator

    Additional info posted re the plane:

    It's a 1941 or 42 model just for the record. I think the first B-24 Liberators were deployed to South Asia, the Med, and Africa mid to late 1942.


    I was recommended to post it on a UK forum where the numbers on the front could positively identify it, if that throws up anything, I'll post it here. As I said, I can't verify any of these but hopefully the other guys here can.


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    #18
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    lurker2000 wrote: »
    Hi Sharon - preliminary results from posting it on other forums are in. I'm putting their views on the thread for members here to give their verdict as I know nothing on the subject. I mentioned you knew nothing about your relative other than he served in Africa or India.

    Truck identified as :

    It's a 4x2 Chevrolet "longnose"! Which makes it an Allied item

    Plane was also spotted and identified as :

    A B24 Liberator

    Additional info posted re the plane:

    It's a 1941 or 42 model just for the record. I think the first B-24 Liberators were deployed to South Asia, the Med, and Africa mid to late 1942.


    I was recommended to post it on a UK forum where the numbers on the front could positively identify it, if that throws up anything, I'll post it here. As I said, I can't verify any of these but hopefully the other guys here can.

    I was going to say, cant be a B-24, but upon looking, it does seem it is, matching up some pictures, I think the perspective and how the side of the A/C blends into the image makes it appear a smaller aircraft in the picture than it is. I wonder what the fairing is rear of no1 engine, google here I come. Fairing for flaps?


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    #19
    lurker2000
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭lurker2000


    Hi again Sharon - this was posted on the UK forum, this guy is an expert on trucks by the look of his profile but unfortunately it still leaves the India/Africa question up in the air.

    'Yes. An early Canadian built Chevrolet Model 1543, 3ton 4 X 2. And yes as far as I know only the RAF used this model. This one has had the cab roof cut off and replaced with canvas. The numbers are those used in India. It could however be a vehicle from India serving in the Far East or Middle East.'


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    #20
    lurker2000
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭lurker2000


    Ps: I hadn't posted the info on that thread that you thought there might be an India or Africa connection. So his info was not based on that.


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    #21
    shar01
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭shar01


    lurker2000 wrote: »
    Hi again Sharon - this was posted on the UK forum, this guy is an expert on trucks by the look of his profile but unfortunately it still leaves the India/Africa question up in the air.

    'Yes. An early Canadian built Chevrolet Model 1543, 3ton 4 X 2. And yes as far as I know only the RAF used this model. This one has had the cab roof cut off and replaced with canvas. The numbers are those used in India. It could however be a vehicle from India serving in the Far East or Middle East.'

    This is great info - it opens up the distinct possibility that he was in the RAF - something I'd not considered before. Going to faff around this afternoon on the various genealogy sites and see what I can find.

    Many thanks to you all.

    Sharon


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    #22
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    There seems to be some connection to a unit or units that served in north Africa that were also in India previously.
    I knew of someone that I know was in Italy, it stands to reason they or their unit may have previously been in North Africa, but I never recal them or anyone mentioning anything about it, so I assumed they turned up after their unit was already in Italy, later I found out they had also been in India, but I dont know where or what location or date.

    What sites are you looking up? I have made a start at looking up one site previously and located some information but had to pay to go further, this was when they offered some introductory start, but think it was a geneaology sit rather than specifically a war record one.
    I actually assumed British Army records might be freely available under some FOI laws? so thought it might be a better way to approach, but not being in the UK, it may be easier to access these historical/ancestor type sites.
    I'm considering starting looking it up, its for 3 people, one in WW1, two in WW2, one of the later is not related.


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    #23
    shar01
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭shar01


    cerastes wrote: »
    What sites are you looking up? I have made a start at looking up one site previously and located some information but had to pay to go further, this was when they offered some introductory start, but think it was a geneaology sit rather than specifically a war record one.

    I'm primarily using findmypast.ie. It has been fruitful for attestation papers and other info for records from WW1 and before. Ancestry is okay aswell.

    Forces War Records - not so great.

    I know Martin O'Connor survived the War and only died in 1976 so I'm wondering if the 70 year rule applies to his records.

    With the possible RAF link, Jawgap has suggested sending the pic to their museum so going to do that.

    Fingers crossed for a result!


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