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New Train Timetable - Teething Problems or a Sick Joke?

  • 17-12-2007 11:19am
    #1
    chipclub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭


    I can only comment on the Drogheda service and last week was a disaster. The morning train arrived late every day so nothing new there but it was in the evening when Iarnrod Eireann really excelled. The 16:15 from Pearse has been moved out by 1 minute to 16:16 so that isn't anything to be bothered with but what used to be a fairly reliable departure was now at least five minutes late every time and then crawled along and arrived in Drogheda anything from 10-15 minutes late every night.

    Worse, much worse, was the reduction to a six carriage train so an already busy service turned into a sardine tin. Worse again - the Friday service was down to 4 carriages which made the busiest train of the week intolerable. Platform guards had to move people away from the train in Connolly because the doors would not close. A lot of people could not get on and it was a similar story in Portmarnock with quite a few school kids unable to get on.

    Progress? The price goes up, the journey gets longer and the train capacity gets less. What are other peoples' experiences with the new timetable?


Comments

  • #2
    John R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭John R


    When the new IC trains roll out on Dub-Sligo on Jan 21st there will be more commuter sets released and more will become available as the new trains take over more lines so there should be less short-formed trains on Dublin commuter services.


  • #3
    KC61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    As John R says things will improve from January 21.

    The reason for the shortened trains on Fridays is that there is an extra Sligo service and they need to "borrow" two 4 car sets to form it. This will cease from January 21.


  • #4
    markf909
    Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭markf909


    John R wrote: »
    When the new IC trains roll out on Dub-Sligo on Jan 21st there will be more commuter sets released and more will become available as the new trains take over more lines so there should be less short-formed trains on Dublin commuter services.

    In the paper yesterday it said that the new trains do not have a certificate to operate.

    So will they have one by the 21st, given that they were supposed to be going from the "Autumn"?


  • #5
    meanmachine3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 551 ✭✭✭meanmachine3


    i think this is wider than just the drogheda service. they've also cut the carriages on the calcutta express from 8 to 6 in some cases and it looks like this was done to put on these so called extra trains. but the other problem here is off peak they put 8 carriages on but at peak times around the 16.10 on wards from around pearse they only have 4 carriges and some of these trains come from gorey.


  • #6
    Ham'nd'egger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭Ham'nd'egger


    KC61 wrote: »
    As John R says things will improve from January 21.

    The reason for the shortened trains on Fridays is that there is an extra Sligo service and they need to "borrow" two 4 car sets to form it. This will cease from January 21.

    The Sligo extra service is usually loco and carriages, as is the Sligo 5PM service to Sligo.

    The "certificates" mentioned are issued by the Railway Inspectorate's office and any train here has to be passed out as being safe and up to their mark, even if new. Irish Rail hasn't any imput or say in attaining this, hence the delays.


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  • #7
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Hamndegger wrote: »
    The "certificates" mentioned are issued by the Railway Inspectorate's office and any train here has to be passed out as being safe and up to their mark, even if new. Irish Rail hasn't any imput or say in attaining this, hence the delays.
    No say or input at all? So are we to presume there's nothing wrong with these trains and the RSC are just not issuing the certs for no reason?


  • #8
    John R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭John R


    murphaph wrote: »
    No say or input at all? So are we to presume there's nothing wrong with these trains and the RSC are just not issuing the certs for no reason?

    I assume what Ham'nd'egger meant by that is the RSC alone decide whether a train is up to standard.

    Obviously if they have issues then it is down to IE to sort them out and in the case of new stock IE would have contracts with the manufacturer to rectify all safety issues before they fully accept the stock.

    I have no doubt that if the RSC have not passed the trains then there are good reasons for it.


    Hamndegger wrote:
    The Sligo extra service is usually loco and carriages, as is the Sligo 5PM service to Sligo.

    There is only one Loco-hauled set that works daily. On Fridays there is an extra Sligo that is run with commuter railcars.


  • #9
    Ham'nd'egger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭Ham'nd'egger


    murphaph wrote: »
    No say or input at all? So are we to presume there's nothing wrong with these trains and the RSC are just not issuing the certs for no reason?

    No say as in it is not Irish Rail to say if they are fit or not for use, ultimately this call is made by the Railway Safety Commission (RSC). IE will know the benchmark to be aiming for; it is a question of RSC being satisfied. Alone, their guidelines for train designs is 38 pages long, and that is without any technical specs listed; drop them in and your looking at War and Peace.


  • #10
    Ham'nd'egger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭Ham'nd'egger


    John R wrote: »
    I assume what Ham'nd'egger meant by that is the RSC alone decide whether a train is up to standard.

    Obviously if they have issues then it is down to IE to sort them out and in the case of new stock IE would have contracts with the manufacturer to rectify all safety issues before they fully accept the stock.

    I have no doubt that if the RSC have not passed the trains then there are good reasons for it....

    There is only one Loco-hauled set that works daily. On Fridays there is an extra Sligo that is run with commuter railcars.

    Yep, that's it, John. Just so people know, trains are generally not considered purchased by operator and constructor until they are passed fit into service.

    I thought that FO to Sligo was loco hauled as well.


  • #11
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Hamndegger wrote: »
    No say as in it is not Irish Rail to say if they are fit or not for use, ultimately this call is made by the Railway Safety Commission (RSC). IE will know the benchmark to be aiming for; it is a question of RSC being satisfied. Alone, their guidelines for train designs is 38 pages long, and that is without any technical specs listed; drop them in and your looking at War and Peace.
    You said it yourself. IE know (or should know) what to expect. They do this for a living. If something is wrong then it is up to IE and/or their contractors to get it sorted. The way your first post was worded it looked like you were laying all the blame for the delays at the RSC's door and excusing IE of any liabilty in this matter. I trust I was mistaken and you do believe IE have more than a small role to play in getting these trains through safety testing and into service.

    Remember, Autumn ended on the last day of September in this country. We were told they'd be in service by Autumn. I accept that there are hiccups when a new machine comes in, but don't bet the farm on them with no redundancy other than reducing formations to half the size they should be.


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  • #12
    emmagean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭emmagean


    chipclub wrote: »
    the Friday service was down to 4 carriages which made the busiest train of the week intolerable. Platform guards had to move people away from the train in Connolly because the doors would not close. A lot of people could not get on and it was a similar story in Portmarnock with quite a few school kids unable to get on.
    timetable?

    I was on this train on Friday from Pearse. I have never had a more uncomfortable or dangerous journey of any kind in all my time travelling all over the world. The train was full before it left Pearse, yet let on what seemed like hundreds more at Tara and Connolly, and more at Raheny, Howth Junction and Portmarnock before finally easing at Malahide by which time the train had arrived 15 minutes late.

    Why do we put up with this? There must have been several breaches of health and safety on that train on Friday. I have already written and posted a registered letter to Mr. Barry Kenny about it. What good it will do remains to be seen. Probably none at all.


  • #13
    Ham'nd'egger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭Ham'nd'egger


    murphaph wrote: »
    You said it yourself. IE know (or should know) what to expect. They do this for a living. If something is wrong then it is up to IE and/or their contractors to get it sorted. The way your first post was worded it looked like you were laying all the blame for the delays at the RSC's door and excusing IE of any liabilty in this matter. I trust I was mistaken and you do believe IE have more than a small role to play in getting these trains through safety testing and into service.

    I don't look on it like that, Murphaph, and I can't say that I'd "blame" anybody for the delay. Responsible for it, yes, but blame? Nah, not yet I don't :)

    I feel it is simply a case of RSC are fine combing everything on these units before certing them out. Irish Rail would have tested them out and ironed out working issues (Which there was many, so I am led to believe, hence some delays) and satisfied themselves with the units being fit; RSC may well be doing likewise. In any case, railcars have more to test on them that carriages so they will take longer to test.


  • #14
    John R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭John R


    Hamndegger wrote: »

    I thought that FO to Sligo was loco hauled as well.

    Actually I think it usually is. Mon-Thurs the 17.05 is loco hauled. On Fri the 16.00 FO is normally run with that set and the 17.05 uses the additional railcars.


  • #15
    John R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭John R


    emmagean wrote: »
    I was on this train on Friday from Pearse. I have never had a more uncomfortable or dangerous journey of any kind in all my time travelling all over the world. The train was full before it left Pearse, yet let on what seemed like hundreds more at Tara and Connolly, and more at Raheny, Howth Junction and Portmarnock before finally easing at Malahide by which time the train had arrived 15 minutes late.

    Why do we put up with this? There must have been several breaches of health and safety on that train on Friday. I have already written and posted a registered letter to Mr. Barry Kenny about it. What good it will do remains to be seen. Probably none at all.

    As has been said here ad infinitum the legal maximum loading of trains is in fact considerably higher than the physical ability of people to cram onto the trains so there is no legal H&S issue. Added to that IE do not force anyone on to the trains, people choose to cram onto an already crowded carriage while I am willing to bet all the people already on board do nothing to stop them.

    Yes it is an unpleasant experience and one that should not happen but throwing around false accusations of illegal actions will not do you any good, registered letter or not.


  • #16
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Hamndegger wrote: »
    I don't look on it like that, Murphaph, and I can't say that I'd "blame" anybody for the delay. Responsible for it, yes, but blame? Nah, not yet I don't :)

    I feel it is simply a case of RSC are fine combing everything on these units before certing them out. Irish Rail would have tested them out and ironed out working issues (Which there was many, so I am led to believe, hence some delays) and satisfied themselves with the units being fit; RSC may well be doing likewise. In any case, railcars have more to test on them that carriages so they will take longer to test.
    Fair enough. Nobody wants unsafe rolling stock on the railway but IE stated Autumn as the start date. They must have believed at the latest end of September or they'd have played safe and said Winter. They have gotten a few major things wrong of late which has resulted in a lack of rolling stock. Where's those 8100 DARTs again? Will IE be suing Siemens for that? Doubt it.


  • #17
    emmagean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭emmagean


    John R wrote: »
    Yes it is an unpleasant experience and one that should not happen but throwing around false accusations of illegal actions will not do you any good, registered letter or not.

    accusations of illegal actions? where did I do that? you havent seen my letter to Mr. Kenny.

    I'm merely pointing out that in general we tend to put up with this level of appalling service rather than formally complain about it. My letter was a formal complaint and not an accusation of any kind, a copy of which was sent to Noel Dempsey.

    I've heard it all before about the legal maximum being extremely high, however it doesnt mean I have to sit back and accept it.

    I was on the train at Pearse and despite it being overloaded (in my opinion), nothing was done to stop people getting on the train at the other stations despite a number of Iarnrod eireann personnell on the platforms at Pearse, Tara and Connolly.

    I made the point of overcrowding to one of these staff members who just shrugged his shoulders and said there was nothing he could do.

    Well if there's nothing they can do then I'm making sure I do something about it. I'm not saying it will make a difference but all I can do is try.


  • #18
    John R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭John R


    emmagean wrote: »
    accusations of illegal actions? where did I do that?

    Right here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54674647&postcount=12
    There must have been several breaches of health and safety on that train


    I don't disagree with you that you shouldn't have to put up with it by the way.

    The fact is though that Irish people stand passively by while this happens then bitch and moan later (usually on boards) expecting someone, anyone else to sort out their problems.

    If I am on a crowded train and more people try to get on I have no problem telling them to get off and wait for the next one, done it numerous times on the London Underground when I lived there.

    FFS they pay people to physically cram Japanese commuters onto their trains, it cannot be that dangerous.


  • #19
    markf909
    Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭markf909


    If I am on a crowded train and more people try to get on I have no problem telling them to get off and wait for the next one, done it numerous times on the London Underground when I lived there.

    Its all well and good when the next tube is in 3 mins.

    What good is that with Irish Rail when the next service may be 30 - 45 mins? :rolleyes:


  • #20
    Ham'nd'egger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭Ham'nd'egger


    According to Tokyu-Cars website (They made many of Irish Rails railcar sets), a 2800 Class can fit 344 per two car set, seated and standing. On that basis, a 6 car set will have 1032 passengers on board fully laden.

    Likewise, a 4 car 8500 Class set on the DART carrys 866 fully loaded.


  • #21
    LuckyStar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LuckyStar


    The Maynooth line is ridiculous. If you are a student in NUI Maynooth and want to be in your lecture for 9am, you have to either get the train that leaves you in Maynooth for 7.48am or you have to be late for your lecture as the next train only arrives into Maynooth at 9. When I was in college (I only graduated in Septem,ber) the morning trains were ALWAYS late but they left you in at about 8.35 (first 2 year or two of college) or about 8.50 (rest of college).


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  • #22
    chipclub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭chipclub


    Normal service was resumed yesterday. The train was on time and it was a full 8 carriage set.


  • #23
    Rashers72
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Rashers72


    chipclub wrote: »
    Normal service was resumed yesterday. The train was on time and it was a full 8 carriage set.
    You were lucky. They must have read your comments here.

    The above service arrived as 6 carriages this morning. Left passengers behind at Howth Junction, Malahide, but worst of all Donabate, as they faced a 40 minute wait for the next service, and that only goes 1/2 the distance of the 07.58 service, leading to changes/extra time etc.
    Heavily overcrowded on board.
    We now have daily carriage shortages on the Drogheda line. Crazy stuff.


  • #24
    emmagean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭emmagean


    Rashers72 wrote: »
    You were lucky. They must have read your comments here.

    The above service arrived as 6 carriages this morning. Left passengers behind at Howth Junction, Malahide, but worst of all Donabate, as they faced a 40 minute wait for the next service, and that only goes 1/2 the distance of the 07.58 service, leading to changes/extra time etc.
    Heavily overcrowded on board.
    We now have daily carriage shortages on the Drogheda line. Crazy stuff.

    so not only did we not get any extra trains on this route in the new timetable, we have actually been left with a worse service than we have prior to the timetable change?

    And they try to encourage people to use public transport?

    If there is no change in January I've made the decision to go back to the car permanently for the first time in 2 years


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