Whistleblower:Renault ignored dangerous bonnet-catch fault...

pburns · 19-04-2007 10:09am #1

junkyard will love this! Apparantly a high-ranking Renault PR employee has resigned his position in protest at Renault's failure to accept responsibility for this.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2007/03/31/mnren31.xml

According to this podcast there's already been a death due to this fault. Apparantly Renault UK wanted to act on the matter but head office in France issued orders to sweep the issue under the carpet.
http://www.garethjones.tv/indexgj.html

Given that Renault trumpet their NCAP/safety records so loudly this seems like a MAJOR pile of doo-doo...

unkel · 19-04-2007 10:20am

I saw the report about faulty bonnet-catches on the Clio on watchdog a while back. Looked like a bad design. Renault denied there was a problem

It's disgraceful that Renault did not issue a recall for what now emerges they knew was a design fault leading to bonnets lifting up while driving

Fair play to the whistle blower, hope he gets a good compensation package for being unfairly dismissed

maidhc · 19-04-2007 10:27am

Renault says it has worked closely with the Government agency responsible for recalls, the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency, and claims they agree that the problem is to do with maintenance, not the design or construction of the catch. It says it is writing to what it claims are 400,000 Clio II owners in the UK to invite them to visit their local dealership to have the bonnet catch inspected, lubricated or, if necessary, replaced free of charge.

It sounds like sympathisers to some marques here on boards. Nothing wrong with the car, just a lack of maintenance.

Always oil your bonnet latches. :rolleyes:

prospect · 19-04-2007 11:23am

I am afraid it is not only renault who are up this type of stuff...

http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=300&scid=95

http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=90&did=1191

http://www.mitsubishisucks.com/cars/scandals/

http://www.crash-worthiness.com/ford/ford.html

http://www.injuryboard.com/view.cfm/Topic=9963

I could go on

unkel · 19-04-2007 11:25am

That was exactly the point watchdog was making, maidhc. A bonnet hatch is not something that should ever need to be inspected or maintained by the owner

HashSlinging · 19-04-2007 11:27am

any european sites with information, and not everyone knows that they have to "Always oil your bonnet latches" FFS not in the owners manual.

Lucifer · 19-04-2007 11:50am

Renault also continued to use the same bonnet catch on the Clio II after the problem had been discovered. I am a mechanic and i have never heard of having maintain a bonnet catch other than tightening the cable if the bonnet wont open.

pburns · 19-04-2007 12:04pm

maidhc wrote:

Always oil your bonnet latches. :rolleyes:

In fairness you'd need to be some anally-retentive no-life to make bonnet-latch-oiling part of your car-maintanance routine!!

maidhc - I'm assuming you're were being ironic...

BrianD3 · 19-04-2007 12:24pm

Does the bonnet latch fail having been properly closed. Or is it that the bonnet is still open after the owner assumes he's closed it. IMO there is a big difference between the two scenarios. Personally I always check that a bonnet is fully closed and secure before driving off. Recently I had some trouble getting the bonnet on a mondeo to close so it's good to check these things. However most people do not check and just assume the bonnet is closed. I often see cars driving around with the bonnets half closed. They would normally still be secure but it just shows how people don't pay attention to this sort of thing.

Also there is a problem with the Ford Focus II where a flimsy plastic part connecting the lock to the latch breaks and you then can't open the bonnet without dismantling the bumper undertray and reaching up. Ford will not supply the plastic part on its own so you have to buy the lock and other bits as well. I know this is the opposite to the Renault problem and is not as potentially dangerous but still it shows how other manufacturers can have problems with bonnet latches.

BTW I grease my bonnet latches occasionally, always have done and don't consider this to be anally retentive!

ZiabR · 19-04-2007 12:33pm

pburns wrote:

junkyard will love this! Apparantly a high-ranking Renault PR employee has resigned his position in protest at Renault's failure to accept responsibility for this.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2007/03/31/mnren31.xml

According to this podcast there's already been a death due to this fault. Apparantly Renault UK wanted to act on the matter but head office in France issued orders to sweep the issue under the carpet.
http://www.garethjones.tv/indexgj.html

Given that Renault trumpet their NCAP/safety records so loudly this seems like a MAJOR pile of doo-doo...

Wow, i have no idea about this, that is serious. Kinda surprised that the refuse to accept the fault.

Darando · 19-04-2007 11:03pm

The issue with "maintaining the bonnet latch" was no wher in the manual did it mention bonnet latch under the maintainence heading!!!

How are you to know to "maintain" it if under the heading with all the maintainace tasks in the manual thats not there!! Thats the point that they said on Watchdog.

I have a feeling Renault wont own up as it will cost them money to replace them and also compo if they admit liability.

peasant · 19-04-2007 11:19pm

I'm somewhat in two minds about this.

Renault is obviously trying to hush something up here, but on the other hand ...

On all the cars I've ever owned, at least once a year (usually before the winter) I've done a little walk around and cleaned, oiled, greased all catches, latches, rubbers etc on all openings including boot and bonnet ...without checking the manual first

But in a day and age where you explicitely have to mention in the manual for a microwave not to use it to dry your cat, nothing really surprises me any more.

maidhc · 20-04-2007 8:00am

peasant wrote:

On all the cars I've ever owned, at least once a year (usually before the winter) I've done a little walk around and cleaned, oiled, greased all catches, latches, rubbers etc on all openings including boot and bonnet ...without checking the manual first

It is different though. I always oil the doors, and even the ignition, but if you are going to start oiling the bonnet catch you may as well start oiling the adjusters for focusing the headlamps and the hazard warning light switch.

If Renault cannot design a bonnet catch that doesn't need tlc, it is a very poor trial of their cars!

colm_mcm · 20-04-2007 9:27pm

unkel · 20-04-2007 11:09pm

Great find, Colm

junkyard · 21-04-2007 3:53pm

It doesn't surprise me that Renault are having problems with a simple bonnet catch tbh, in my experiences with them they seem to take a simple component and complicate it, Citroen do the same and so do VW. I'll hand it to the Japs and the Koreans they let every other car maker solve the problem with a simple component and they hi-jack it and mass produce it, that's why they're so reliable. I don't honestly think I've seen a complex locking device or component used in a Renault, Citroen or similar used in a Jap or Korean car.

Guy:Incognito · 21-04-2007 4:39pm

TBH, the bonnet lock on my (now the mothers) clio looks no different or more complicatedthan amy other. Theres not really a lot you can do with them. Also ha dno issues, but then again I always close mybonnet properly.

I'll admit though that I do spray my bonnet catchwith WD40 every now and then, however anal it sounds.

. I had the bonnet on my Rover siez and it took lots of fiddling to get it open. Since then I've been keeping my catches lubed.

I'd imagine it's the safety catch that was causing issues after people didnt shut it properly.If both catches were failign there would be someobvious signs. As it is theres nothing to go against what Renault are saying and the fact is they are offering to ceck them all. It seems to be blown right up.

As for the "whistleblower"? I tend to take these with a pinch of salt, regardless of what it's about or what company. I just dotn believe all this " doing for the people" routine.Nobody does things for nothing anymore. IT's like all the political parties promising us the sun, moon and stars to vote for them. Yeah, pull the other one.

unkel · 21-04-2007 10:59pm

Stekelly wrote:

I always close mybonnet properly

One shouldn't have to check. Just dropping it from a height of several feet should ensure it is closed properly. If not, the engineering is dodgy

Stekelly wrote:

I'll admit though that I do spray my bonnet catchwith WD40 every now and then, however anal it sounds.

Fair play. Your TLC will probably enhance the life of your cars. The average Joe (or Mary in case of a Renault Clio

) should not even need to know what WD40 is imho

Bottom line is this. All car manufacturers make mistakes when designing cars. How problems come to light and if or how they are resolved is the big issue

Many Renault Clio owners reported a serious issue with bonnets flying up. People pointed the finger at the bonnet catch. Renault denied there was anything wrong with the design. Then Renault commissioned independent reports that concluded it was a design fault. At this point at the latest, Renault should have issued a recall. Instead Renault still denied responsibility. Renault is extremely lucky they don't sell cars in the US. They would be bankrupt by now with this kinda behaviour

pburns · 22-04-2007 1:30pm

unkel wrote:

Your TLC will probably enhance the life of your cars. The average Joe (or Mary in case of a Renault Clio ) should not even need to know what WD40 is imho

I agree - I'd say there are VERY few of the wider population that will oil their bonnet catches, this board is not going to be representative of the wider demographic. It's certainly not something I've ever done:o

junkyard wrote:

I'll hand it to the Japs and the Koreans they let every other car maker solve the problem with a simple component and they hi-jack it and mass produce it, that's why they're so reliable. I don't honestly think I've seen a complex locking device or component used in a Renault, Citroen or similar used in a Jap or Korean car.

I had an Avensis that a slight problem in this area. The bonnet wouldn't catch if dropped from the usual 6-10 inches. If you tried to PUSH it home the bonnet was so tinny it would bend! So you had to drop the bonnet from at least 2-3 feet.

BrianD3 · 22-04-2007 2:54pm

One shouldn't have to check. Just dropping it from a height of several feet should ensure it is closed properly

That's assuming that owners know to do this. After reading this thread I decided to keep an eye out for improperly closed bonnets. Saw several (all on non Renaults BTW) There must be plenty of people out there who don't know how to close a bonnet. The difference is, on other cars if you don't close the bonnet fully it probably won't fly up while on a Clio it *may* do so. I'm not even sure how prevalent it is on Clios. The whole issue could be being blown out of proportion

Really the points I'm making are:
a) people are dumb and need to have their hand held with everything, see peasant's post about people having to be explicitly told not to microwave their cat
b) It should be obvious if a bonnet is not closed properly
c) In Renault owners handbook in the section on bonnets it specifically states "check that the bonnet is locked" with a big exclamation mark beside it
d) If a bonnet won't close fully and the owner is aware of it, they should have enough cop on not to go driving along M-ways at 120 km/h.
e) these people who's bonnets are flying up - I'd ask have they ever had their cars serviced?

I'll try to make an analogy. Lets say Renault were supplying wheelbraces which were snapping when owners tried to tighten wheel nuts after changing a wheel. Is it completely Renault's fault if an owner drives off as normal with loose wheel nuts and crashes as a result.

Now if wheels were falling off of their own accord - then that would be a different scenario altogether.

maidhc · 22-04-2007 4:59pm

BrianD3 wrote:

Really the points I'm making are:
a) people are dumb and need to have their hand held with everything, see peasant's post about people having to be explicitly told not to microwave their cat
b) It should be obvious if a bonnet is not closed properly
c) In Renault owners handbook in the section on bonnets it specifically states "check that the bonnet is locked" with a big exclamation mark beside it
d) If a bonnet won't close fully and the owner is aware of it, they should have enough cop on not to go driving along M-ways at 120 km/h.
e) these people who's bonnets are flying up - I'd ask have they ever had their cars serviced?

If the catch is sticky is is well possible it seems to be latching, but isn't. In which case the fault will be Renaults alone. Since this only seem to affect Renault Clios, and not cars in general, then one must assume the design is lacking.

I don't agree people are dumb. Cars are just one element of peoples life. In a different context: if there was not clear instructions on clothes, I would be as liable to machine wash a suit as a pair of jeans.

junkyard · 22-04-2007 6:08pm

maidhc wrote:

I don't agree people are dumb. Cars are just one element of peoples life. In a different context: if there was not clear instructions on clothes, I would be as liable to machine wash a suit as a pair of jeans.

What about the guy in the states who put his camper van on cruise control and went in the back to make a cup of coffee, needless to say it crashed but he won his case against the manufacturer as he understood his cruise control to be some kind of autopilot.:rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito · 22-04-2007 6:15pm

junkyard wrote:

What about the guy in the states who put his camper van on cruise control and went in the back to make a cup of coffee, needless to say it crashed but he won his case against the manufacturer as he understood his cruise control to be some kind of autopilot.:rolleyes:

It isnt?. Think I just dodged a bullet there.:)

How do the american courts take themselves seriously though. That guy should have been laughed at by each individual jurer and then tossed out on his ass.

junkyard · 22-04-2007 6:23pm

Stekelly wrote:

How do the american courts take themselves seriously though. That guy should have been laughed at by each individual jurer and then tossed out on his ass.

Well if the majority of your population are idiots you have to look after them.:)

BrianD3 · 22-04-2007 6:24pm

maidhc wrote:

if there was not clear instructions on clothes, I would be as liable to machine wash a suit as a pair of jeans.

Not too bad, at least you didn't put a cat in the microwave....

junkyard · 22-04-2007 6:36pm

BrianD3 wrote:

Not too bad, at least you didn't put a cat in the microwave....

Now there's a good idea, I hate cats!:D

Guy:Incognito · 22-04-2007 6:42pm

I'm actually starting to wonder how long it would take to dry a cat in the microwave.

Probably good I dont have a cat.

I want to make up a sticker and go around Power city sticking them on microwaves. "New pet drying setting"

junkyard · 22-04-2007 6:44pm

I feel a new thread coming on here "Microwavable cats, what's hot and what's not".:D

Guy:Incognito · 22-04-2007 6:54pm

Ah little Junkyard, always thinking so small. 3 words. Microwaveable Pets Forum.

For added annoyingness (word?) , for others I mean, it could be a sub forum of the pets forum.:)

I also feel some sort of OT award coming on. This has to be a fairly distant deviation.

Actually I can kind of drag it back (not really though) because I have a clio bonnet/cat related story. I was driving to a job in sandymount last year (in the clio) heading through town and coming to a set of lights, there was a bit of commotion up ahead, so I pulled up about 3rd in line and theres people looking under cars. I got out just in time for people to tell me a kitten had vanished under my car. A few of us had a look and couldnt see anything. The cat had either gone up into the engine bay somewhere or vanished. Sobeing on a main road I pulle din, opened the bonnet (see there the refence) and had a look. Couldnt see anythign so closed th ebonnet (properly

) and headed to work. A couple of hours later I heard meowing and low and behold a kitten appears in the drivway beside the car. :eek:

01Surveyor · 11-04-2013 9:08am

On the Saturday before Christmas 2012 I was driving my mothers Clio on the N9 when the bonnet flew open smashing the windscreen. I was in the overtaking lane on a 3 lane motorway. I managed to get the car into the hard shoulder without hitting, or being hit by, anything. Renault took the car for 6 weeks to carry out a technical inspection. The outcome?
They offered to replaceme the bonnet catch FOC.
My mother had given the car to my son for his 21st but fortunately I was driving.....I reckon 40+ years of road and track experience and sheer good fortune saved me and others from potentially awful consequences.
Watch this space.....

TestTransmission · 11-04-2013 9:17am

01Surveyor wrote: »

On the Saturday before Christmas 2012 I was driving my mothers Clio on the N9 when the bonnet flew open smashing the windscreen. I was in the overtaking lane on a 3 lane motorway. I managed to get the car into the hard shoulder without hitting, or being hit by, anything. Renault took the car for 6 weeks to carry out a technical inspection. The outcome?
They offered to replaceme the bonnet catch FOC.
My mother had given the car to my son for his 21st but fortunately I was driving.....I reckon 40+ years of road and track experience and sheer good fortune saved me and others from potentially awful consequences.
Watch this space.....

Hi,welcome to boards.

Please don't drag up old threads.Please feel free to start a new one.

Whistleblower:Renault ignored dangerous bonnet-catch fault...

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