Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 MOD POST #1130

djPSB · 30-05-2012 8:27pm

Knex. wrote: »

This has been done to death on here, it really has.

I would argue that Monoco and Dortmund, to an extent when Klopp got the job, are the stepping stones required to take up a job at Liverpool.

Guardiola's situation with Barcelona is nothing at all like Rodgers and us. He was a former club captain, one of their greatest and most loved palyers who had learnt his trade from the ground up at Barca.
It would be like Stevie G starting off coaching at Liverpool now and in ten years finally getting the job. Although, I don't think he's be of the same caliber.

Its absolutely ridiculous to think that in 9 months you can go from managing a newly promoted team to one of the biggest jobs in England. Ridiculous.

Lloyd's example of Rodgers going to the likes of Villa and progressing there, showing his capabilities at a higher level, before coming to Liverpool was spot on.

Also, your logic on a previous post about us coming 8th and so should be happy with Rodgers is madness.
One season where Swansea overachieved does not make him a manager anywhere near Liverpool's standard. For all we know he could of gotten them relegated next year. Think Owen Coyle, Paul Jewell or Curbishley. We have no idea what his level is, its a massive and unnecessary gamble.

So, what if he has overachied and he's now landed the Liverpool job? People are saying he now has better players, great, yet how likely is he to overachieve again? Where does this leave us? Mid fcuking table again. I'm sorry, but I can't accept that as easily as some on here seem to be able to.

Its a ridiculous gamble to be taking when managers of a far superior and proven quality are currently available.

We aren't the force we once were. To say that the Dortmund job would be a stepping stone to the Liverpool job is once again just snobbery.

The Liverpool job isn't as big a job in calibre as it used to be. The only thing is that some of our fans have to realise that. We have alot of average players, yet our fans almost demand a top 4 finish. Do players like Spearing, Adam, Kuyt, Maxi deserve to be playing CL football. No they don't. They're not good enough.

Nobody knows if Rodgers is going to be a success or not, but I for one am not going to write him off before a ball is kicked.

Mr Alan · 30-05-2012 8:29pm

Melion wrote: »

Well how long does it go on for? We finish 17th next year, should we still be aiming for Rafa, Guardiola etc?
We finish 20th in 2014, should we be after Rafa in the championship?

Maybe Pep will be interested in the Leeds job if it comes up soon, they're a big club. What about Sheffield Wednesday? They were in 2 cup finals in '93.

Rafa has been quite clear in saying he'd welcome a move back to Liverpool.

whatawaster · 30-05-2012 8:32pm

So where does this leave our squad. If we are to assume Rodgers will favour a 4-3-3 as he did at Swansea:

GK - Reina, Doni - Reina is Rodger's kind of keeper. Excellent distribution, good sweeping skills. Higher defensive line should suit him down to the ground. Hopefully he improves the other aspects of his game this season.

RB - Johnson, Kelly, Flanagan - Healthy

LB - Enrique, Robinson - Aurelio is gone and I trust Robinson as backup next season (with Johnson and Agger well able to fill in). Enrique is excellent technically and hopefully he will improve on his poor second half to the season

CB - Skrtel, Agger, Coates, Carragher, Wisdom - Skrtel and Agger will be first choice. Coates should become 3rd choice. Wisdom needs to step up for the Europa league

DM - Lucas, New Signing - Crucial position in a 4-3-3. Britton played that role brilliantly for them last season, and Lucas is a massive step up from him. Spearing is out for me, so we need backup to Lucas badly. Someone like Diame fits the bill in my opinion.

CM - New Signing, Henderson - IMO our biggest signing of the summer. We have never replaced Alonso and we are crying out for a cool, creative head in midfield. I expect much more from Henderson, but we need to buy well here. Wouldn't be surprised to see Allen come in, but not sure he's the quality we need, yet. Bye, bye Adam.

AM - Gerrard, Shelvey, Suso - If we can sign him, Sigurdsson would come in to compete with Gerrard at AM. Otherwise it's not a priority for me. Gerrard can still do a good job here. Shelvey/Henderson can ease the burden in lesser games. Suso deserves a shot in the Europa League.

LW - New Signing, Sterling - Another key area. Downing, Maxi and Kuyt are out the door and our first proper left winger in years to come in.

RW - Suarez, Bellamy - Suarez perfect coming in from the channels. Bellamy is very decent backup.

CF - Carroll, New Signing - We need to sign someone who offers something Carroll doesn't - so I'll be looking for pace and a real killer instinct in front of goal. Between the pair of them we'd have plenty of options.

So: Out - Aurelio, Spearing, Adam, Downing, Maxi, Kuyt
In - Backup Defensive midfielder, starting central midfielder, starting left winger, starting/squad striker.

MD1990 · 30-05-2012 8:33pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rafa has been quite clear in saying he'd welcome a move back to Liverpool.

of course he would
no top club will want Benitez after the job he done at Inter
i could him managing Valencia or Bilbao if Bielsa left

djPSB · 30-05-2012 8:33pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rafa has been quite clear in saying he'd welcome a move back to Liverpool.

I reckon he'll be gutted that he wasn't considered and we could see him in a job within the next couple of months.

Melion · 30-05-2012 8:33pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Melion wrote: »

Well how long does it go on for? We finish 17th next year, should we still be aiming for Rafa, Guardiola etc?
We finish 20th in 2014, should we be after Rafa in the championship?

Maybe Pep will be interested in the Leeds job if it comes up soon, they're a big club. What about Sheffield Wednesday? They were in 2 cup finals in '93.

Rafa has been quite clear in saying he'd welcome a move back to Liverpool.

Where? I've yet to see one direct quote from him stating that.

Mr Alan · 30-05-2012 8:37pm

He's said it in numerous speaking engagements he's had. Including in Dublin. I also seem to remember him saying it on football focus.

Lawrence1895 · 30-05-2012 8:38pm

djPSB wrote: »

We aren't the force we once were. To say that the Dortmund job would be a stepping stone to the Liverpool job is once again just snobbery.

The Liverpool job isn't as big a job in calibre as it used to be. The only thing is that some of our fans have to realise that. We have alot of average players, yet our fans almost demand a top 4 finish. Do players like Spearing, Adam, Kuyt, Maxi deserve to be playing CL football. No they don't. They're not good enough.

Nobody knows if Rodgers is going to be a success or not, but I for one am not going to write him off before a ball is kicked.

Which sounds a bit like the Dortmund job is just a stepping stone to the Germany job, should Low fail in the EURO 2012

Handsome Bob · 30-05-2012 8:39pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

He's said it in numerous speaking engagements he's had. Including in Dublin. I also seem to remember him saying it on football focus.

Didn't he also say he'd go to Chelsea no bother?

Mr Alan · 30-05-2012 8:40pm

Handsome Bob wrote: »

Didn't he also say he'd go to Chelsea no bother?

Yep.

mike65 · 30-05-2012 8:42pm

whatawaster wrote: »

So where does this leave our squad. If we are to assume Rodgers will favour a 4-3-3 as he did at Swansea:

GK - Reina, Doni - Reina is Rodger's kind of keeper. Excellent distribution, good sweeping skills. Higher defensive line should suit him down to the ground. Hopefully he improves the other aspects of his game this season.

RB - Johnson, Kelly, Flanagan - Healthy

LB - Enrique, Robinson - Aurelio is gone and I trust Robinson as backup next season (with Johnson and Agger well able to fill in). Enrique is excellent technically and hopefully he will improve on his poor second half to the season

CB - Skrtel, Agger, Coates, Carragher, Wisdom - Skrtel and Agger will be first choice. Coates should become 3rd choice. Wisdom needs to step up for the Europa league

DM - Lucas, New Signing - Crucial position in a 4-3-3. Britton played that role brilliantly for them last season, and Lucas is a massive step up from him. Spearing is out for me, so we need backup to Lucas badly. Someone like Diame fits the bill in my opinion.

CM - New Signing, Henderson - IMO our biggest signing of the summer. We have never replaced Alonso and we are crying out for a cool, creative head in midfield. I expect much more from Henderson, but we need to buy well here. Wouldn't be surprised to see Allen come in, but not sure he's the quality we need, yet. Bye, bye Adam.

AM - Gerrard, Shelvey, Suso - If we can sign him, Sigurdsson would come in to compete with Gerrard at AM. Otherwise it's not a priority for me. Gerrard can still do a good job here. Shelvey/Henderson can ease the burden in lesser games. Suso deserves a shot in the Europa League.

LW - New Signing, Sterling - Another key area. Downing, Maxi and Kuyt are out the door and our first proper left winger in years to come in.

RW - Suarez, Bellamy - Suarez perfect coming in from the channels. Bellamy is very decent backup.

CF - Carroll, New Signing - We need to sign someone who offers something Carroll doesn't - so I'll be looking for pace and a real killer instinct in front of goal. Between the pair of them we'd have plenty of options.

So: Out - Aurelio, Spearing, Adam, Downing, Maxi, Kuyt
In - Backup Defensive midfielder, starting central midfielder, starting left winger, starting/squad striker.

The challenges squad wise would have been the same regardless of who we got really - fix weak width, plausible Lucas back up, mobile striker. Gerrards future could be interesting under a manager who seeks possession and control over a scything run from the middle.

Knex* · 30-05-2012 8:51pm

djPSB wrote: »

We aren't the force we once were. To say that the Dortmund job would be a stepping stone to the Liverpool job is once again just snobbery.

The Liverpool job isn't as big a job in calibre as it used to be. The only thing is that some of our fans have to realise that. We have alot of average players, yet our fans almost demand a top 4 finish. Do players like Spearing, Adam, Kuyt, Maxi deserve to be playing CL football. No they don't. They're not good enough.

Nobody knows if Rodgers is going to be a success or not, but I for one am not going to write him off before a ball is kicked.

I get your point. But, I did not say that Dortmund right now is a stepping stone to Liverpool. I said that back in 2008, if we had been looking for a manager, Klopp would not of been on our list and rightly so. He needed to prove himself at a place like Dortmund who were nowhere near us in terms of standard, quality etc.

I just wish we had a similar mentality now. Obviously you're saying we can't afford to, that we have dropped to a lower level. To be fair, I can see where you are coming from.

But the point that myself and others are making is that we will keep on dropping if we constantly set the bar lower for ourselves. Rodgers should not be an acceptable appointment for us when a man of Benitez' caliber would gladly take the job.

Rodgers I must admit looks like he has potential to be a good-great manager, I do like what I've read about him, much more so than Martinez. And if LVG can be brought in as well I can have hope of us progressing although it will be a long process. I just think its a massive, massive, unnecessary gamble.

djPSB · 30-05-2012 8:53pm

The strength of our squad and the likelihood that we move up the league will be gauged heavily on how many games players of the quality of Spearing, Maxi, Kuyt, Adam etc. play next season.

Average players, achieve average results.

Spearing started 15 PL games last season and Adam 27.

It's no wonder we finished 8th.

djPSB · 30-05-2012 8:58pm

Knex. wrote: »

I get your point. But, I did not say that Dortmund right now is a stepping stone to Liverpool. I said that back in 2008, if we had been looking for a manager, Klopp would not of been on our list and rightly so. He needed to prove himself at a place like Dortmund who were nowhere near us in terms of standard, quality etc.

I just wish we had a similar mentality now. Obviously you're saying we can't afford to, that we have dropped to a lower level. To be fair, I can see where you are coming from.

But the point that myself and others are making is that we will keep on dropping if we constantly set the bar lower for ourselves. Rodgers should not be an acceptable appointment for us when a man of Benitez' caliber would gladly take the job.

Rodgers I must admit looks promising, I do like what I've read about him, much more so than Martinez. And if LVG can be brought in as well I can have hope of us progressing although it will be a long process. I just think its a massive, massive, unnecessary gamble.

I agree Rodgers is a massive risk and Benitez would have been a safer option.

But the owners decided they wanted to restructure, and it's a structure that Benitez wouldn't really fit in to.

Whether the structure will be a success remains to be seen. But like I said, the structure for the last 22 years hasn't worked so I can see why they want to go with a different approach.

Hank Scorpio · 30-05-2012 9:00pm

djPSB wrote: »

But like I said, the structure for the last 22 years hasn't worked so I can see why they want to go with a different approach.

Rafa had some good years there imo, would have loved to see him back as a neutral. Not debating your point btw, I agree with it!

Jesus Wept · 30-05-2012 9:02pm

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/dictators-terrorists-xi-143023941.html

wrote:

With Zimbabwean dictator Robert Mugabe admitting this weekend that he is a Chelsea fan, we take a look at the despots who have - or had - a soft spot for a football team.
Mugabe's revelation came at the weekend when he told Benjani Mwaruwari that he was a Blues fan at the player's testimonial. " I watched you but I'm a Chelsea fan and always want them to score," Mugabe said.
Here's our pick of some other dictators and tyrants and the teams they supported:
- - - - - -
Adolf Hitler - Schalke: The Fuhrer was reputedly a fan of Schalke, who won the German title six times while Hitler was in charge of Germany. The club later disputed this claim after it was repeated in The Times a few years ago, with a brilliant statement puncturing once and for all the myth that Germans struggle to master humour: "We were very curious to find out what made the well respected Times claim this as a fact. So we checked and double-checked whether the club board between 1933 and 1945 had named a stand the 'Führer Stand', for example, and we watched every episode of 'Allo 'Allo in a bid to find a clue. Nothing."

Idi Amin - Hayes FC: The Ugandan dictator became a fan of Hayes as a result of his years spent in the British army (in which he served for 15 years) where he was deeply impressed by a colleague who constantly talked up the achievements of the non-league West London club.

Colonel Gaddafi - Liverpool: Among the artefacts found after the fall of the Libyan leader was a Liverpool mug, leading some to claim that Gaddafi was a fan of the Reds. The idea isn't actually all that far-fetched: One of Gaddafi's sons, Al-Saadi Gaddafi, spent years trying to make it as a professional footballer before investing so much in Juventus that he was given a place on the board of directors in 2002 (he resigned from the board a year later). Al-Saadi also considered buying a stake in Liverpool at the same time, though the move never came to fruition.

Radovan Karadzic - Inter Milan: The Bosnian Serb war criminal was a fan of the Serie A giants due to their signing of Serbian players Sinisa Mihajlović and Dejan Stanković. His nephew told an Italian paper recently that while Karadzic was still a fugitive he risked arrest by going to watch matches.
Osama Bin Laden - Arsenal: Rumours claim that the Al Qaeda chief and mastermind of the 9/11 attacks became a fan of the north London club after watching matches at Highbury several times while visiting Britain as a teenager in the 1970s. He is also said to have bought one of his sons an Ian Wright replica shirt at one point, and Gunners fans took his supposed fandom well by creating a special chant: "Osama, woah-oh / Osama, woah-woah-woah-woah / He's hiding in Kabul / He loves the Arsenal."

General Franco - Real Madrid: The Spanish fascist leader was renowned as a fan of the Madrid club, so much so that the club came to be regarded by many almost as the official side of the regime and were referred to openly as 'Franco's pet team'. Yet it didn't start out that way: Franco originally supported Real's arch-rivals Atletico Madrid, originally an army side, and in fact his later support of Real was as much a case of the dictator jumping on the bandwagon to bask in the club's glory in the early days of the European Cup, which they won the first five times it was played from 1956-1960.
Benito Mussolini - Bologna: The Italian fascist dictator was a staunch Bologna fan from the time they were formed in 1909; the side thrived after he came to power in 1922, winning the Italian title in 1925, 1929, 1936, 1937, 1939 and 1941. Indeed, the club's neo-medieval stadium was heralded by Il Duce as a symbol of his beliefs, calling it, "a shining example of what can be done with the will and tenacity of Fascism."

Josef Stalin - Dynamo Moscow: The club was set up by one of Stalin's most loyal (and feared) henchmen, KGB chief Lavrenty Beria, and was effectively KGB United for several decades. Football was a big deal to Uncle Joe: when the USSR lost an Olympic match to Yugoslavia in 1952, a furious Stalin ordered the army's CSKA Moscow team (which had supplied most of the players) to be disbanded.

Nicolae Ceausescu - Steaua Bucharest: The Romanian side was actually owned by the national army prior to the 1989 revolution, and Ceausescu supported and enabled the enforced transfer of players - among them Gheorghe Hagi and Gheorghe Popescu - to the club without the agreement of either the player or his original club. It was a policy that helped Steaua win the league for six consecutive seasons in the 1980s, collect the European Cup in 1986, and set a European record of 104 matches unbeaten in the league.

Colonel Gaddafi surely the pick of the bunch.

Jesus Wept · 30-05-2012 9:05pm

djPSB wrote: »

The strength of our squad and the likelihood that we move up the league will be gauged heavily on how many games players of the quality of Spearing, Maxi, Kuyt, Adam etc. play next season.

Average players, achieve average results.

Spearing started 15 PL games last season and Adam 27.

It's no wonder we finished 8th.

That's pretty shocking.

slingerz · 30-05-2012 9:05pm

whatawaster wrote: »

So where does this leave our squad. If we are to assume Rodgers will favour a 4-3-3 as he did at Swansea:

GK - Reina, Doni - Reina is Rodger's kind of keeper. Excellent distribution, good sweeping skills. Higher defensive line should suit him down to the ground. Hopefully he improves the other aspects of his game this season.

RB - Johnson, Kelly, Flanagan - Healthy

LB - Enrique, Robinson - Aurelio is gone and I trust Robinson as backup next season (with Johnson and Agger well able to fill in). Enrique is excellent technically and hopefully he will improve on his poor second half to the season

CB - Skrtel, Agger, Coates, Carragher, Wisdom - Skrtel and Agger will be first choice. Coates should become 3rd choice. Wisdom needs to step up for the Europa league

DM - Lucas, New Signing - Crucial position in a 4-3-3. Britton played that role brilliantly for them last season, and Lucas is a massive step up from him. Spearing is out for me, so we need backup to Lucas badly. Someone like Diame fits the bill in my opinion.

CM - New Signing, Henderson - IMO our biggest signing of the summer. We have never replaced Alonso and we are crying out for a cool, creative head in midfield. I expect much more from Henderson, but we need to buy well here. Wouldn't be surprised to see Allen come in, but not sure he's the quality we need, yet. Bye, bye Adam.

AM - Gerrard, Shelvey, Suso - If we can sign him, Sigurdsson would come in to compete with Gerrard at AM. Otherwise it's not a priority for me. Gerrard can still do a good job here. Shelvey/Henderson can ease the burden in lesser games. Suso deserves a shot in the Europa League.

LW - New Signing, Sterling - Another key area. Downing, Maxi and Kuyt are out the door and our first proper left winger in years to come in.

RW - Suarez, Bellamy - Suarez perfect coming in from the channels. Bellamy is very decent backup.

CF - Carroll, New Signing - We need to sign someone who offers something Carroll doesn't - so I'll be looking for pace and a real killer instinct in front of goal. Between the pair of them we'd have plenty of options.

So: Out - Aurelio, Spearing, Adam, Downing, Maxi, Kuyt
In - Backup Defensive midfielder, starting central midfielder, starting left winger, starting/squad striker.

I donth think Sterling is ready for such a 1st team role at the moment. Signing a couple of wide attacking players and a clinical striker

Can't see Adam and Downing being sold either to be honest, most likely signings are 2 wide attacking players, a striker and a defensive centre mid

niallo27 · 30-05-2012 9:21pm

Downing cant be as bad next year as he was this year can he, you cant just turn to ****e like that from no where.

mada999 · 30-05-2012 9:29pm

Optimism

Gbear · 30-05-2012 9:30pm

mada999 wrote: »

Optimism

BOOO!! **** OFF!!:mad::mad:

:pac:

rossie1977 · 30-05-2012 9:31pm

djPSB wrote: »

Do players like Spearing, Adam, Kuyt, Maxi deserve to be playing CL football. No they don't. They're not good enough.
.

i disagree there are plenty of champions league teams the likes of kuyt and maxi would do a job for (outside the big 5 or 6 clubs), kuyt scored in a champions league final not all that long ago, started in the last world cup final and will play a major role in this years euros for the dutch

woodyg · 30-05-2012 9:31pm

the new season can't start soon enough to end all this endless arguments\banter over the manager appointment.

lets give him the chance to get his players in get out some dud's and get a few games under the belt. win on the opening day and people will be on about our year loose and people will be calling for his head, the hyper bole needs to be parked to allow the club a chance to climb back up.

the calibre of manager makes no difference if the calibre of player is pants, so the key thing is the owners put up the cash and it's spent on the right men.

time will tell but can we at least give the man a chance to start his job with out sounding the death bell

5starpool · 30-05-2012 9:38pm

I wouldn't be surprised to see serious talk of at least 2 of Suarez, Agger, Skrtel, Johnson and Reina being linked with moves away this summer. I hope none of them leave though.

It'll be an interesting summer anyhow no doubt. I hope we aim higher than signing players from Swansea though. I'm not particularly in favour of this appointment at all, but providing he respects the club (unlike Hodgson) the fans will definitely respect him and show some patience.

There are of course examples of unproven managers going to big clubs and doing well, but there are many many examples to the contrary as well, so mentioning any to back up a point is irrelevant as none of them are specifically Brendan Rodgers. There is only one way to find out how he does, and that's wait and see, but I'm leaning more to the pessimistic side than anything. Attracting the best type of player we can will be harder without any of

1. Big name respected manager
2. Champions League football
3. Big wages available

Hopefully come mid August I'll be filled with renewed optimism, but I get a sense of being severely short changed at the moment. I can see next seasons threads being full of "I told you so" from whoever turns out to be right on a weekly basis almost, and I'm already sick to the teeth of it. MD1990 calling someone an idiot on this thread doesn't bode well for the type of discussions I expect to happen. The sooner transfer activity starts so that we can judge on the merits of the specific case, the better.

ArtVandelay76 · 30-05-2012 9:43pm

So Ted Rodgers got the job eventually,
Dusty Bin must be a dead cert for director of football.

Morzadec · 30-05-2012 9:50pm

Really hoping we can get Sigurdsonn, that would immediately make me feel better about the appointment.

Disappointed it wasn't Rafa, but it was clear early on it wasn't going to be, and for me Rodgers is far more preferable than Martinez.

I was really hoping LVG would be on board as well - I would've been very happy with that combo and confident LVG could attract some decent signings. As it is, this seems to be a bit up in the air.

If LVG isn't there, then obviously a lot of the points about Rodgers not being a big name to attract players is an important point. However, his time with the Spanish national side will be publicised a bit and the fact he speaks Spanish could maybe see him attract players from there, or players who see themselves as fitting that style.

It's a real wait and see appointment and I admit a risk. But I'll give him every chance to succeed and it wouldn't surprise me to see him having us challenging for the top 4 positions. We massively underachieved in the league last season and we have most of what it takes to mount a challenge imo.

On a side note, I mentioned this way back in the thread, but now that all the hypotheticals have come to pass, where does this leave Andy Carroll? I'm not sure if I see a role for him at all under Rodgers...

Ape X · 30-05-2012 9:50pm

ArtVandelay76 wrote: »

Dusty Bin must be a dead cert for director of football.

Will be working directly with Downing and a video camera.

CL7 · 30-05-2012 9:58pm

niallo27 wrote: »

Downing cant be as bad next year as he was this year can he, you cant just turn to ****e like that from no where.

I've never thought much of him. Hopefully by some miracle he has a good world cup euro 2012. Might have a chance of selling him on.

daithijjj · 30-05-2012 9:58pm

Archive from Brendan Rodgers' time at Chelsea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18272602

amiable · 30-05-2012 10:01pm

CL7 wrote: »

I've never thought much of him. Hopefully by some miracle he has a good world cup. Might have a chance of selling him on.

I think the damage is already done on his reputation even if he does have a good tournament this summer unless arry decides he could put his arm around his shoulder.
Stoke might be a possiblity at half the price Liverpool paid.

Who do people think may be the casualties in the squad under Rodgers?

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 MOD POST #1130

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