Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Waiting for VFM

Options
2»

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Morpheus wrote: »
    an unpaid training day is a day on the range or a field day.

    training nights as far as im aware will continue, they are the staple of the training. you CANNOT train someone up if you only meet 2 weeks out of the whole year. theres a TON of prep work that requires the weekly meetings to continue.

    IMO that is a misinterpretation - nevertheless it remains to be seen.

    Sorry Morpheus but I am afraid that I getting an impression of a Dublinocentric universe here. Rural units are much more reliant on field days at weekends rather than night parades to get the same level of training in.

    One reason, among others, is access to weapons which are centralised in the main garrisons.

    Unless of course they all start keeping their rifles at home - which used to be how it was done in the old days.


  • Options
    #33
    neilled
    Registered Users Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭neilled


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    .

    Unless of course they all start keeping their rifles at home - which used to be how it was done in the old days.

    That will not happen.


  • Options
    #34
    bluecode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭bluecode


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    This integrated unit model was tried before and, going by the FCA men I knew, the net result was that the FCA ended up being treated as barracks dogsbodies. This integrated model may work for some of the Corps such as the Artillery but for the Infantry I am deeply skeptical.
    Yes and 'armed' roles are specifically excluded so no cash escorts for one thing. Which rather defeats the idea of soldiering. I wonder does that include guard duties? But as that would be unpaid there won't exactly be an enthusiastic take up for that particular job.


  • Options
    #35
    bluecode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭bluecode


    neilled wrote: »
    That will not happen.
    That's obvious, it's not as if they are still using .303s. The 'new IRA' would soon be fully equipped with assault rifles not to mention the local drug dealers.:eek:


  • Options
    #36
    Fear
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Fear


    The full 111 page report is available here:

    http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/Sub+Document+ID/106441151B85CE4880257ABC0059DDC9?

    However the Departmert of defence press release has it all in plain english:

    http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/Release+ID/9717E770E30193F480257ABC005F07A6?OpenDocument

    401.2DCA?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif

    Notice that some counties will now have no Defence Forces presense, namely, Co. Monaghan, Co. Leitrim, Co. Longford, Co. Laois, Co. Carlow & South Tipperary. Seems the lads in Clonmel took a bit of a kicking there, they lost their barracks in March and now this.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    testicle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭testicle


    Fear wrote: »
    Notice that some counties will now have no Defence Forces presense, namely, Co. Monaghan, Co. Leitrim, Co. Longford, Co. Laois, Co. Carlow & South Tipperary. Seems the lads in Clonmel took a bit of a kicking there, they lost their barracks in March and now this.

    Is there a threat of insurgents from any of those?


  • Options
    #38
    Turbine
    Site Banned Posts: 317 ✭✭Turbine


    And for anyone looking to join the RDF, this should be of particular interest:
    A geographic spread for the Reserve will be achieved between existing Permanent Defence Force locations and the retention of 16 external locations. The locations of the new Reserve Units are set out on the attached map. This consolidation into an effective organisation will entail the amalgamation and closure of Units throughout the country. Recruitment is also envisaged where this is necessary to achieve the numbers required in particular locations.

    Overall it looks like a good outcome for the RDF, and if fully implemented should mean more opportunities for reservists.


  • Options
    #39
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I read the lot.

    Some of it really is a no-brainer. The cost savings of consolidation to reduce the Cadre numbers and payroll are large and obvious. Dropping the gratuity seems to make sense as well, as long as the money gets put into more paid training.

    That said, I am amused / a bit insulted by the thinking that RDF personnel will conduct reliably PDF duties out of the goodness of their hearts for no pay (Barracks duties etc). I think they have drawn the wrong conclusions from the Civil Defence and Garda Reserve experience: There is immediate reward/satisfaction from making a decided and obvious difference as a result of your efforts, either by collaring crooks or rescuing people. The idea of calling out RDF unpaid volunteers for natural disaster etc is reasonable for the same reason CivDef works. But people donating a 24-hour orderly period just to save the government the money that it should be paying to whoever does the duty seems to be a little optomistic.

    I am disappointed that there was nothing stated in favour of employment protection legislation. It's as if the VFM review considers the topic poison, they were just looking for excuses not to do it. It doesn't cost the government money, what on Earth are they afraid of? Their logic to support it doesn't hold water either. For example, they theorised that since a number of troops were able to make 14 or 21 manday years, there was no need for the employment protection. There are two flaws with this. Firstly, the troops were only able to make the mandays that they could happen to match up with what the employer would let them have, not necessarily what was most beneficial to the Army or themselves. Secondly, there were also a number of troops who were not able to make the required amount of days, meaning that collective training suffers, and the troops in question are decidedly undertrained.

    The comparisons with other nations seems to have been a waste of space. I didn't see the chapter ask (1) Were the other nations actually satisfied with what was going on there, and (2) what lessons are actually applicable to the Irish situation.

    I definitely have mixed opinions on the VFM.


  • Options
    #40
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    See the news reports



    The weeknight training will likely go the way of the local RDF hall

    I didn't see that in the full report either.


  • Options
    #41
    Maoltuile
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Maoltuile


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    It doesn't cost the government money, what on Earth are they afraid of?

    It's a crony capitalist paradise, what did you expect?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    Turbine
    Site Banned Posts: 317 ✭✭Turbine


    Members of the TA in the UK didn't get employers protection till after the Iraq War started. So it would probably take something like the reserves being deployed overseas to force the government to legislate for it here. Not that that'll ever happen.


  • Options
    #43
    bluecode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭bluecode


    On the point of employment protection that is needed. In the end it was what drove me out of the FCA. I was offered a place on an NCO course but my employer asked if it was compulsory. When the answer was no, he refused me leave. I knew I couldn't continue as a private and if I couldn't become a Corporal there was little point. Ironically afterwards he was replaced by a former Commandant of the Air Corps, himself a member of the first line reserve. He would certainly have facilitated me. But that's the problem. It requires employer good will. Many of the true stalwarts of my company had public service jobs. There was always greater flexibility there.

    Even situations like being called out for civil emergencies would require compulsion because employers are simply going to say no. I agree with MM in relation to barrack duties. Who is going to volunteer to spend the day painting things or some other fatigue duty. Armed duties are excluded. Do that also include guard duty? That isn't clear. There is no incentive to volunteer.

    The more I look at it, the more I see how poorly thought out it is. There is nothing to suggest there be improvements in training and equipment. Arguably because of the attachment to PDF units that might promote greater access but realistically we know the PDF have little enthusiasm for all things reservist. It's hard to see reservists exercising alongside their regular counterparts. Indeed you can easily see the RDF component being used for the dogsbody stuff, thus freeing up the regulars. The sandbag jibe is all too close to the truth.


  • Options
    #44
    Milk & Honey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭Milk & Honey


    Fear wrote: »
    The full 111 page report is available here:

    http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/Sub+Document+ID/106441151B85CE4880257ABC0059DDC9?

    However the Departmert of defence press release has it all in plain english:

    http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/Release+ID/9717E770E30193F480257ABC005F07A6?OpenDocument

    401.2DCA?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif

    Notice that some counties will now have no Defence Forces presense, namely, Co. Monaghan, Co. Leitrim, Co. Longford, Co. Laois, Co. Carlow & South Tipperary. Seems the lads in Clonmel took a bit of a kicking there, they lost their barracks in March and now this.

    What is happening to the Air Corps. Why is it not shown in the maps.


  • Options
    #45
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Milk & Honey wrote: »

    What is happening to the Air Corps. Why is it not shown in the maps.

    There is no notable air reserve component. No point in mentioning it


Advertisement