Alternate to the Saorview Box

lawhec wrote: »

DO you actually understand what vapourware is? MHEG5 has been around for a decade itself, it's being used on the Saorview platform for an "upgrade" to Aertel over its WST service (wherever it's any better is subjective) as well as channel information for non-24h channels

Until an actual Saorview certified PVR comes on to the market, there is pretty much no necessity for series link abilities to be available. Current Saorview STBs are not designed for true PVR use even is many of them can record anything that is on that multiplex to a USB drive - once the second multiplex is up and running eventually, whenever that may be, this feature will be badly handicapped.

Cynical much? That's nothing that TV shows and Aertel/Threetext themselves currently do, and just for reference none of that happens in the UK because they're not allowed to. So while such a pop-up is technically possible, that is a regulatory issue.

Discodog wrote: »

Surely now is the time to be offering a PVR or do they want us to all buy STB's & then have to fork out again for a PVR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Russell
In the fullness of time, all TVs will be iDTVs that can receive the full spectrum of standards deployed in Europe, just select your country.

I'm sure it will like in the last 10-15 years most analogue TV's sold in Europe being multistandard with full VHF/UHF coverage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Russell
In the meantime, those with old TVs just want a temporary solution to solve the immediate problem of the 24th October next. The STB is a short term solution in anybody's language and a cludge.

I wonder how many people howling at STBs being a short term solution and a "cludge" have no problems having a monster Sky HD or UPC set-top-box? Also if you're looking to get a true PVR - with twin tuners and preferably an internal hard drive and not some examples with a single tuner outputting via a USB port - then your options are pretty much limited to using a form of STB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Russell
Why spend the guts of the price of a small TV on a STB that is at best awkward to use? It is not even as if the STB market is flooded any major manufacturers like Sony or Panasonic. No, most are made by a low-end Turkish producer - Vestel.

In the UK STB's back in 2002/03 started around the £100 mark and took around three years to get below £40 and sub £20 STBs only started appearing around 2008/9. There's also a good reason why most STB's are Vestel clones - in the first couple of years numerous manufacturers like Sony, Pace and Panasonic came out with Freeview STBs but withdrew from that market a few years later except for some specialist devices because their "premium" products simply didn't sell as well as most of the cheaper models, many of these based on Vestel chipsets and software, were much more popular and where STBs are still being bought they continue to be. The only "higher end" manufacturers that are still prominent in the Freeview STB market are Humax and Sagemcom. Don't hold your breath for Sony or Panasonic stand-alone STB in the Irish market with Saorview approval any time. And from my experience, there's little wrong with most Vestel products, in fact their ubiquity in budget end STBs, PVRs and IDTVs actually give a familiarity of on-screen menus to many users and for day-to-day use I've yet to find anyone say that it's awkward to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Russell
Within two years, all major suppliers will have full products available in iDtvs that meet most peoples requirement. [Even Panasonic now have certified product] Buying a STB of any kind is a waste of money, and for any CRT TV I would think is a bad investment. At best, it is postponing the inevitable purchase of a fully specced iDTV, maybe only justified by wisely waiting for maturity in the market.

A foolish outlook to make. There are generally three reasons why televisions be replaced, (i) the current television breaks down and is either beyond repair or not economical to do so, (ii) the current television does not have a feature that the main viewer(s) desire and only a complete replacement can achieve this, or (iii) keeping up with the O'Connors. The last one is beyond any control here within a technical discussion. The first one is simply a case of natural wastage and product life cycle, while the second one is attractive to those for whom are seeking to have relatively new features like high definition or internet connectivity. Also it is not just CRT TV's that are affected here - many "HD ready" displays that were sold a few years ago had no integrated digital tuner (my parents Hanspree TV which worked up until last year was one of these) and as often pointed out on this forum, 'product dumping' by UK retailers into Ireland has resulted in a lot of people who have IDTVs but only meeting the UK Freeview spec with no MPEG4 broadcast handling capabilities and therefore useless for Saorview other than to listen to radio. In each of these cases, if the viewer is happy with their CRT display and isn't fussed too much about HD, or those with plasma or LCD displays which doesn't have the correct hardware required, why should they need to buy a completely new TV? The idea that you need to is as much of a con-man trick as those selling "digital aerials" or telling people they have to upgrade their aerials when there is no need. Money's tight for many people right now and a simple STB add-on to a TV display that could still last for many more years to come is something to strongly think about, and a STB is an attractive option on a budget - but at the same time there's penny wise, pound foolish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Russell
If one agrees with this, why spend more than €25 to get one rather than €80 for a certified one? [Assuming €25 is the price]. I do not think MHEG5 can be worth the difference, but at €50 for the certified product the argument changes. It all depends on the price.

It's not just MHEG5 which itself actually doesn't cost much itself as it is licence free, but also a cut to cover the cost of certification (that's for a different debate), the ability for the receiver to receive OTA software updates via an engineering channel (I don't know if it's running yet on Saorview) and a certification of meeting a minimum set of standards that should be able to cope with future changes in technical parameters within it e.g. TV audio and radio streams moving from MP2 to AAC not to mention retailer costs for staff wages, showroom etc. rather than some guy importing a load, storing them in his shed and selling for a far less profit margin either locally or by post. The price currently for retail Saorview receivers isn't as cheap as possibly hoped due to the small market (New Zealand would be comparable here) it's operating but if more manufacturers are starting to get products approved, hopefully €50 for a single tuner STB should be achievable by the end of the Summer. OTOH, cheap mass-market Chinese produced generic DVB-T receivers designed for (basic) international use has a potential international market and cheap labour to drive down selling costs but unless explicitly mentioned in its specs it may fall when a local technical specification changes (witness ex-Picnic boxes among others not being able to handle RTÉ2 HD) or cannot handle middleware features being used by broadcasters to enhance viewer experience & input, not to mention that at best the firmware can be updated via USB but this itself isn't as convenient as an OTA download.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Russell
Well, that is my opinion for what it is worth.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but I'm still bemused.