Israeli ruling on Corrie death draws widespread condemnation

cyberhog · 01-09-2012 8:16am #1

U.N. official calls Israel’s verdict on Rachel Corrie ‘defeat for justice’

GENEVA (Reuters) - A U.N. investigator condemned an Israeli court on Thursday for clearing the military of blame for the death of American activist crushed by an army bulldozer, calling it a "victory for impunity".

The ruling handed down on Tuesday on the civil suit brought by the family of Rachel Corrie was part of a pattern of decisions exonerating Israeli military actions and political leaders, said Richard Falk, United Nations special rapporteur on human rights in the occupied Palestinian territories.

"The judge's decision represents a defeat for justice and accountability, and a victory for impunity for the Israeli military," Falk said in a statement issued in Geneva.

http://news.yahoo.com/u-n-rights-expert-condemns-israeli-ruling-corrie-180720784.html

Amnesty International strongly condemns the decision

(Washington, D.C.) -- Amnesty International condemns an Israeli court’s verdict that the government of Israel bears no responsibility in the death of Rachel Corrie, saying the verdict continues the pattern of impunity for Israeli military violations against civilians and human rights defenders in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT). The verdict shields Israeli military personnel from accountability and ignores deep flaws in the Israeli military’s internal investigation of Corrie’s death.

“Rachel Corrie was a peaceful American protestor who was killed while attempting to protect a Palestinian home from the crushing force of an Israeli military bulldozer,” said Sanjeev Bery, Middle East and North Africa advocacy director for Amnesty International USA.

“More than nine years after Corrie’s death, the Israeli authorities still have not delivered on promises to conduct a 'thorough, credible and transparent' investigation. Instead, an Israeli court has upheld the flawed military investigation and issued a verdict that once again shields the Israeli military from any accountability,” Bery said.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/press-releases/rachel-corrie-verdict-highlights-impunity-for-israeli-military

Former US President Jimmy Carter slams the verdict

"The killing of an American peace activist is unacceptable," said former U.S. President Jimmy Carter. "The court's decision confirms a climate of impunity, which facilitates Israeli human rights violations against Palestinian civilians in the Occupied Territory."

http://cartercenter.org/news/pr/rachel-corrie-verdict-082912.html

U.S. Ambassador to Israel says Israel's investigation into Rachel Corrie's death wasn't "credible"

Israel’s investigation into the death of American activist Rachel Corrie was not satisfactory, and wasn’t as thorough, credible or transparent as it should have been, U.S. Ambassador to Israel Dan Shapiro told the Corrie family this week.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/u-s-israeli-probe-into-rachel-corrie-s-death-wasn-t-credible.premium-1.460091

President Obama , on the other hand, has chosen not to comment on the verdict. It seems Obama doesn't share Jimmy Carter's view that it's unacceptable to bulldoze an American peace activist to death or maybe he's just too gutless to criticise Israel in public out of fear that it could harm his re-election prospects?

FrontStorm · 01-09-2012 12:47pm

If I ignore all warnings and run around a building site like a lunatic, it's my own fault if I get run over by a bulldozer. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for this dead girl. She shouldn't have been there.

This is yet another episode in the erosion of the concept of "personal responsibility." Like the fat man who sues McDonalds. It's always someones else's fault, never my own, so I deserve compensation for my own bad choices.

wes · 01-09-2012 12:54pm

FrontStorm wrote: »

If I ignore all warnings and run around a building site like a lunatic, it's my own fault if I get run over by a bulldozer. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for this dead girl. She shouldn't have been there.

Didn't take long for someone to engage in victim blaming. Its only the 2nd post and its already started. Pretty reprehensible pov imho.

Also, she wasn't at a building site. The Israelis were destroying Palestinian homes, and she was trying to stop it. The Israelis are the ones who had no business there in the first place.

FrontStorm wrote: »

This is yet another episode in the erosion of the concept of "personal responsibility." Like the fat man who sues McDonalds. It's always someones else's fault, never my own, so I deserve compensation for my own bad choices.

So you absolve the IDF of responsibility then? They were destroying people's homes, which they had no business doing at all. It seems to me that you are ignoring the IDFs criminality and blaming those who tried to stop it.

FrontStorm · 01-09-2012 1:00pm

wes wrote: »

Didn't take long for someone to engage in victim blaming. Its only the 2nd post and its already started. Pretty reprehensible pov imho.

Are you suggesting that the IDF set out to kill this American girl? Ridiculous.
They were there to do a job and she deliberately and stubbornly threw herself in the way. She made a bad decision and suffered the consequences.

If a suicide victim throws themselves out in front of a bus, do you blame the bus driver?

wes · 01-09-2012 1:04pm

FrontStorm wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the IDF set out to kill this American girl? Ridiculous.

Considering there past in the murder of civilians, its hardly ridiculous.

FrontStorm wrote: »

They were there to do a job and she deliberately and stubbornly threw herself in the way. She made a bad decision and suffered the consequences.

There "job" as you put it was to destroy civilian homes, which is simply put wrong, and Corrie tried to stop this crime, and the IDF murdered her for it. So nice of you to make excuses for murders who were destroying peoples homes.

FrontStorm wrote: »

If a suicide victim throws themselves out in front of a bus, do you blame the bus driver?

You example is utter nonsense. A more apt comparison, would be someone going to the aid of someone else, and being killed for trying to help someone.

As I said before, you victim blaming is simply reprehensible.

im invisible · 01-09-2012 1:04pm

I must have missed this storyline,

karma_ · 01-09-2012 1:05pm

FrontStorm wrote: »

If I ignore all warnings and run around a building site like a lunatic, it's my own fault if I get run over by a bulldozer. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for this dead girl. She shouldn't have been there.

This is yet another episode in the erosion of the concept of "personal responsibility." Like the fat man who sues McDonalds. It's always someones else's fault, never my own, so I deserve compensation for my own bad choices.

There's something manifestly wrong, no matter what the circumstance, when someone can feel no sympathy for a young girl killed by a bulldozer.

Rhys Essien · 01-09-2012 1:06pm

FrontStorm wrote: »

If I ignore all warnings and run around a building site like a lunatic, it's my own fault if I get run over by a bulldozer. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for this dead girl. She shouldn't have been there.

This is yet another episode in the erosion of the concept of "personal responsibility." Like the fat man who sues McDonalds. It's always someones else's fault, never my own, so I deserve compensation for my own bad choices.

Cop on will ya.That example is not like with like.

FrontStorm · 01-09-2012 1:18pm

wes wrote: »

Considering there past in the murder of civilians, its hardly ridiculous.

There "job" as you put it was to destroy civilian homes, which is simply put wrong, and Corrie tried to stop this crime, and the IDF murdered her for it. So nice of you to make excuses for murders who were destroying peoples homes.

Let me stop you right there. From a legal point of view, there is a difference between murder and manslaughter. Please tell me I don't have to explain the difference to a grown adult?
Your continuous misuse of the term "murder" is misleading and disingenuous.

As I said before, you victim blaming is simply reprehensible.

And I think you blame absolution of the victim is weaseling. Like i said before, compo culture and the erosion of personal responsibility is becoming all too common in Western culture these days.

karma_ wrote: »

There's something manifestly wrong, no matter what the circumstance, when someone can feel no sympathy for a young girl killed by a bulldozer.

For the record, I think it was unfortunate that this girl died. I wish she had never traveled to Israel to protest. Sadly, universities across the Western world pump young and impressionable minds full of far-left rhetoric, which can lead to tragic consequences. Most people grow out of this juvenile ideological dead-end by the time they graduate. But some, like Rachel Corrie, don't even make it that far.

southsiderosie · 01-09-2012 2:20pm

MOD NOTE:

This thread has taken an unfortunate turn quickly. If people can't post without getting personal, then don't post at all.

Also, if you think someone is trolling then report it rather than accusing them of it on-thread.

jimmycrackcorm · 01-09-2012 2:27pm

FrontStorm wrote: »

If I ignore all warnings and run around a building site like a lunatic, it's my own fault if I get run over by a bulldozer. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for this dead girl. She shouldn't have been there.

This is yet another episode in the erosion of the concept of "personal responsibility." Like the fat man who sues McDonalds. It's always someones else's fault, never my own, so I deserve compensation for my own bad choices.

Does that imply that shell to sea protesters can bulldozed out of the way too?

FrontStorm · 01-09-2012 2:36pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Does that imply that shell to sea protesters can bulldozed out of the way too?

Whataboutery is the lowest form of debate, but I'll respond anyway.
Shell can't intentionally set out to run over protesters with bulldozers - that is murder.
However, there are plenty of warning signs and security guards at the Shell pipeline construction site to keep protesters away. If one manages to sneak onto the actual site and gets hit by bulldozer, it is despite Shell rather than because of them. The protester would be 100% in the wrong here. Ditto with Rachel Corrie.

hatrickpatrick · 01-09-2012 2:56pm

FrontStorm wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the IDF set out to kill this American girl? Ridiculous.
They were there to do a job and she deliberately and stubbornly threw herself in the way. She made a bad decision and suffered the consequences.

If a suicide victim throws themselves out in front of a bus, do you blame the bus driver?

The job itself was illegitimate and they shouldn't have been engaging in it in the first place. Corrie was engaged in a legitimate protest and ANY suggestion that the driver couldn't see her is absolute bullsh!t in my view. All evidence suggests otherwise.

I don't suggest the IDF actually set out ot murder her in the first place, but I do suggest that when faced with the choice they just said "f*ck it who cares, she's not one of us anyway". As they do day in, day out when it comes to innocent civilians.

yore · 01-09-2012 2:57pm

FrontStorm wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the IDF set out to kill this American girl? Ridiculous.
They were there to do a job and she deliberately and stubbornly threw herself in the way. She made a bad decision and suffered the consequences.

Fair enough. And I suppose you could never understand why they spent a fortune up North on the Saville inquiry into the acts of soldiers who were "there to do a job"? Sure weren't civil rights marches banned at the time too anyway? Served them right eh?

EDIT: This isn't a personal attack. Just a comment that you have an interesting username...would it be written as Storm,Front in the telephone book?

hatrickpatrick · 01-09-2012 2:58pm

FrontStorm wrote: »

For the record, I think it was unfortunate that this girl died. I wish she had never traveled to Israel to protest. Sadly, universities across the Western world pump young and impressionable minds full of far-left rhetoric, which can lead to tragic consequences. Most people grow out of this juvenile ideological dead-end by the time they graduate. But some, like Rachel Corrie, don't even make it that far.

Sorry but WHAT? Far left? You'll have to explain that one to me because I always thought the concept of private property rights was a fundamental cornerstone of RIGHT wing politics?
How is a protester "far left" because he or she disagrees with the concept of stealing somebody's house and bulldozing it even though you have no legal or moral right to do so?

That's not rhetorical btw, I genuinely want to know how you arrived at this conclusion because I'm honestly stumped.

EDIT: BTW, she did not "travel to Israel to protest" as your post suggests, she travelled to Gaza, which is Palestinian territory that the Israelis have absolutely no legitimate claim to.

Fenian Army · 01-09-2012 4:55pm

I suspect Obama is too cowardly to condemn it in an election year.

FrontStorm · 01-09-2012 5:08pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The job itself was illegitimate and they shouldn't have been engaging in it in the first place. Corrie was engaged in a legitimate protest...

It was a legitimate protest, was it? I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion.

...and ANY suggestion that the driver couldn't see her is absolute bullsh!t in my view. All evidence suggests otherwise.

Link to such evidence, if you'd be so kind.

I don't suggest the IDF actually set out ot murder her in the first place, but I do suggest that when faced with the choice they just said "f*ck it who cares, she's not one of us anyway". As they do day in, day out when it comes to innocent civilians.

Wild speculation. You don't know what went through that soldier's mind when he discovered he accidentally ran over a protester.
Let me remind you that this illegitimate protest took place during the second intifada. Bombs had already gone off in the area earlier that day and the IDF were clearing the rubble in the aftermath, not knocking down houses. so you can stop spreading that lie. There is an interesting letter in today's Irish Independent from the Israeli embassy explaining the whole unfortunate episode. Perhaps a poster could scan it in and link to it here, if they have it handy?

karma_ · 01-09-2012 5:22pm

FrontStorm wrote: »

It was a legitimate protest, was it? I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion.

Link to such evidence, if you'd be so kind.

Wild speculation. You don't know what went through that soldier's mind when he discovered he accidentally ran over a protester.
Let me remind you that this illegitimate protest took place during the second intifada. Bombs had already gone off in the area earlier that day and the IDF were clearing the rubble in the aftermath, not knocking down houses. so you can stop spreading that lie. There is an interesting letter in today's Irish Independent from the Israeli embassy explaining the whole unfortunate episode. Perhaps a poster could scan it in and link to it here, if they have it handy?

It's not really wild speculation at all. There's a video of the incident online and probably not appropriate to link here. It's a tragic case, it really is. There's also several clear photos that show her standing in front of it with a clear view to teh cab and she was wearing a bright red top. There is no way the driver did not see someone there, it happened on a level track.

wes · 01-09-2012 7:54pm

FrontStorm wrote: »

Let me stop you right there. From a legal point of view, there is a difference between murder and manslaughter. Please tell me I don't have to explain the difference to a grown adult?

Purposefully running someone over in the midst of criminal activity is generally considered murder. Israel has not business in the Palestinian territories, and knocking down people homes breaks all kind of laws.

FrontStorm wrote: »

Your continuous misuse of the term "murder" is misleading and disingenuous.

No, its a simple statement of fact. Turning around and engaging in victim blaming, on the other hand is simply reprehensible.

FrontStorm wrote: »

And I think you blame absolution of the victim is weaseling.

I think your complete lack of condemnation for deliberate murder during a criminal act is simply disgusting and show a complete lack of empathy.

FrontStorm wrote: »

Like i said before, compo culture and the erosion of personal responsibility is becoming all too common in Western culture these days.

Seems to me that murders in uniform are being excused left right and center in the West these days.

FrontStorm wrote: »

For the record, I think it was unfortunate that this girl died.

So nice of you to say, after you blaming her on her own death, at the hands of a military who are known to murder civilians, while destroying the homes of civilians.

FrontStorm wrote: »

I wish she had never traveled to Israel to protest. Sadly, universities across the Western world pump young and impressionable minds full of far-left rhetoric, which can lead to tragic consequences. Most people grow out of this juvenile ideological dead-end by the time they graduate. But some, like Rachel Corrie, don't even make it that far.

So opposing the destruction of the homes of civilian is being far-left now. So it ok when Israel murder protesters and destroys civilian homes (outside there border btw, not Israel), and people shouldn't protest it.

Well its good to know, that your perfectly fine with such things. Honestly, this sort of hatred of the left, coming from some quarters is deeply disturbing, when we have people engaged in peaceful protest against a army destroying civilian homes outside there borders, and the first thing that comes into someone head is that its the victim fault, and the guy who murdered in the midst of destroying homes, should be left of the hook. A completely morally reprehensible attitude imho.

FFS, when someone like Assad pulls this crap, he is rightly condemned, but when its Israel, there are people in the West who fall over themselves to make excuses for every single murderous outrage they commit.

Eggy Baby! · 01-09-2012 10:38pm

FrontStorm wrote: »

If I ignore all warnings and run around a building site like a lunatic, it's my own fault if I get run over by a bulldozer. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for this dead girl. She shouldn't have been there.

This is yet another episode in the erosion of the concept of "personal responsibility." Like the fat man who sues McDonalds. It's always someones else's fault, never my own, so I deserve compensation for my own bad choices.

I don't know, but I find it bad that you don't even have a shred of sympathy for the girl, no matter your political leanings on the Middle East.

First of all, even if it was an accident, the very act of the demolitions was immoral. So the bulldozers shouldn't have been there and the accident shouldn't have happened.

The fact that the bulldozer was driving around willy nilly without a care in the word with the knowledge that protesters could attempt to stop it is another point for concern. I mean, if protesters were around when you were driving a behemoth like that, wouldn't you tread carefully?

SeanW · 01-09-2012 10:50pm

yore wrote: »

EDIT: This isn't a personal attack. Just a comment that you have an interesting username...would it be written as Storm,Front in the telephone book?

Pretty sure Storm Front hates Jews as well as non-white peoples. Doubt they'd be defending Israel.

Tigerbaby · 01-09-2012 11:02pm

please dont engage with these megaphonies. you're just feeding the troll.

so.

lets have a look at goldman Sachs ( theres a hint in the name ) and its part in the downfall of the Western World. How do we deal with these terrorists?

djh2009 · 01-09-2012 11:19pm

FrontStorm wrote: »

There is an interesting letter in today's Irish Independent from the Israeli embassy explaining the whole unfortunate episode. Perhaps a poster could scan it in and link to it here, if they have it handy?

Would they have had the time to write that letter to the Indo before or after they ran off their latest print run of Irish passports?

yore · 02-09-2012 12:09am

SeanW wrote: »

Pretty sure Storm Front hates Jews as well as non-white peoples. Doubt they'd be defending Israel.

Yeah, I know that. You know that. I just said it was an unusual choice of username. But you get plenty of idiots who think something is "cool" or "dangerous" and get attracted to their notion of it without realising what it actually represents.

Similar to the way you'll see idiot teenagers in schools drawing swastikas or KKK grafitti without realising that the the Nazis wouldn't have exactly treated the non-Aryan Irish as equals or that the KKK were explicitly anti-immigrant and anti-catholic.

The poster might just think he's being cool or dangerous and "right wing" without realising the actual connotations of the name.

He never responded to my question about applying his logic to the people killed in Bloody Sunday. You also get wannabe "Ra"-heads who don't realise that most of the main people in those movements, throughout their history, have been pretty left wing.
You can meet these people at the various "keep foreign sports out of Ireland" protests, proudly donning their Liverpool or Celtic jerseys.

FrontStorm · 02-09-2012 11:09am

yore wrote: »

"something about my username"

"something about the KKK and Nazis" ???

"Ad hominem against me"

"something about the IRA and Bloody Sunday"

Your posts are diverging wildly off-topic and descending into a rant. I have summarised the four paragraphs in your last post. Correct me if it's inaccurate but I think you'll find it's a fair summary.

Since you asked, I am very much against the IRA, like the vast majority of people on this island. I despise terrorism in all its guises, whether it be Irish terrorism, Islamic terrorism, or anything else. Bloody Sunday is completely different to the Rachel Corrie incident. Catholics should've been allowed to partake in a peaceful protest in their own city. The British Army opening fire on them was wrong. This does not give the Catholics permission to begin a terrorist campaign against innocent Protestant civilians, however. That's all I'll say on the matter. Start another thread about Bloody Sunday if you want. Don't make any more presumptions about my personal views again, got it?

On the other hand, Rachel Corrie traveled to a war zone half way across the world, to a country where she had no business, and ran around a demolition site, having ignored several warnings beforehand. If you play with fire, you'll get burned.

I still reject your claim that the IDF were demolishing houses. They were clearing rubble and vegetation that day. I also reject your claim that the bulldozer driver could see Corrie. The official recording of events states:

The bulldozer involved in the accident was a DR9, a very large vehicle. The field of vision of the DR9 is extremely limited, not least due to the heavy shielding necessitated by attacks on bulldozer drivers. When the involved bulldozer turned and pushed a large pile of debris, Corrie was kneeling on the ground and was in a blind spot of the operator's field of vision, behind the bulldozer's shovel and the pile of dirt. Accordingly, as the judge found, there was no way in which the bulldozer driver could have seen Corrie.

BTW, Peace activists don't carry automatic weapons.

karma_ · 02-09-2012 11:25am

FrontStorm wrote: »

Your posts are diverging wildly off-topic and descending into a rant. I have summarised the four paragraphs in your last post. Correct me if it's inaccurate but I think you'll find it's a fair summary.

Since you asked, I am very much against the IRA, like the vast majority of people on this island. I despise terrorism in all its guises, whether it be Irish terrorism, Islamic terrorism, or anything else. Bloody Sunday is completely different to the Rachel Corrie incident. Catholics should've been allowed to partake in a peaceful protest in their own city. The British Army opening fire on them was wrong. This does not give the Catholics permission to begin a terrorist campaign against innocent Protestant civilians, however. That's all I'll say on the matter. Start another thread about Bloody Sunday if you want. Don't make any more presumptions about my personal views again, got it?

On the other hand, Rachel Corrie traveled to a war zone half way across the world, to a country where she had no business, and ran around a demolition site, having ignored several warnings beforehand. If you play with fire, you'll get burned.

I still reject your claim that the IDF were demolishing houses. They were clearing rubble and vegetation that day. I also reject your claim that the bulldozer driver could see Corrie. The official recording of events states:

BTW, Peace activists don't carry automatic weapons.

You can find that picture but not the one of her standing in front of the bulldozer with a clear view of the cab?

As far as I'm concerned, my suspicions are now confirmed.

FrontStorm · 02-09-2012 11:48am

karma_ wrote: »

You can find that picture but not the one of her standing in front of the bulldozer with a clear view of the cab?

As far as I'm concerned, my suspicions are now confirmed.

You ignored every single one of my points there. I was under the impression this was a discussion forum?

K-9 · 02-09-2012 12:29pm

Cut out the personal attacks and discuss the posts not the poster. Stick to the thread topic please.

wes · 02-09-2012 1:59pm

FrontStorm wrote: »

I despise terrorism in all its guises, whether it be Irish terrorism, Islamic terrorism, or anything else.

That's clearly untrue, after you apologetics for Israeli state terror in this thread.

FrontStorm wrote: »

On the other hand, Rachel Corrie traveled to a war zone half way across the world, to a country where she had no business, and ran around a demolition site, having ignored several warnings beforehand. If you play with fire, you'll get burned.

Again simple victim blaming. Pretty disgusting thing to say. Also, she plenty of business there, as the people who lived there, had no issues with her being there. The IDF are the ones who had no business being there.

FrontStorm wrote: »

I still reject your claim that the IDF were demolishing houses. They were clearing rubble and vegetation that day.

The rubble was from houses the IDF demolished ffs. Pretending that the IDF doesn't demolish homes, when its a very well known fact is utterly nonsensical, and shows a level of bias, where you are rejecting reality. Utterly bizarre claim to make imho. It pretty clear, you will say anything, so as to blame the victim.

FrontStorm wrote: »

I also reject your claim that the bulldozer driver could see Corrie. The official recording of events states:

The Israeli version states, just a simple correction for you there. Israel has a habit of absolving its own state terror, which you clearly support via your constant apologetics. The Israeli version is simply worthless, as they have a habit of lieing, and as such there credibility is worthless.

FrontStorm wrote: »

BTW, Peace activists don't carry automatic weapons.

So she held a gun one time, and this proves what exactly? A lot of people in this world have held guns in this world. Doesn't amount to much, unless they use them. You have any evidence that Corrie, went around shooting innocent people? I can provide plenty of proof of the IDF doing that however........

All, I see is a one person smear campaign of a victim of the IDF, which is the sort of thing that happens all the time, when the IDF murders someone. All kinds of nonsense is spouted about how the victim had is coming. Corrie was unarmed, when the bulldozer crushed her, but that doesn't matter to you, as your more interested in smearing her. Again, its utterly disgusting to blame a victim like this.

FrontStorm · 02-09-2012 3:09pm

wes wrote: »

That's clearly untrue, after you apologetics for Israeli state terror in this thread.

You are beginning to reveal your ignorance of the context. The Palestinians were the ones who declared an intifada on Israel. They initiated conflict on a sovereign state after a period of relative peace. The IDF wear uniforms and specifically target terrorists who pose a threat to their state. On the other hand, the Palestinian terrorists wear plain clothes to make themselves indistinguishable from civilians and launch rocket attacks from family homes, store weapons there and use them as human shields.

Again simple victim blaming. Pretty disgusting thing to say. Also, she plenty of business there, as the people who lived there, had no issues with her being there. The IDF are the ones who had no business being there.

The rubble was from houses the IDF demolished ffs. Pretending that the IDF doesn't demolish homes, when its a very well known fact is utterly nonsensical, and shows a level of bias, where you are rejecting reality. Utterly bizarre claim to make imho. It pretty clear, you will say anything, so as to blame the victim.

So you finally admit that the IDF were not demolishing houses at the time of Rachel Corrie's death. They were clearing rubble and vegetation, as the official version of events states. This blows the myth out of the water that Corrie was protecting Palestinian homes. It seems to me that she aimed to simply be a nuisance and make life more difficult for the IDF soldiers trying to clean up the area.

The Israeli version states, just a simple correction for you there. Israel has a habit of absolving its own state terror, which you clearly support via your constant apologetics. The Israeli version is simply worthless, as they have a habit of lieing, and as such there credibility is worthless.

There you go again, spouting off about the IDF being terrorists. They are the defense forces, in uniform, of a sovereign nation. I suppose Hamas are angels in your worldview?

So she held a gun one time, and this proves what exactly? A lot of people in this world have held guns in this world. Doesn't amount to much, unless they use them. You have any evidence that Corrie, went around shooting innocent people? I can provide plenty of proof of the IDF doing that however........

It seems to me you are the apologetic, determined to make excuses for a foreign national who brandishes automatic weapons for the camera, associates with Palestinian terrorists, and aims to obstruct the clean-up operation of a foreign army. I never claimed that Corrie went around shooting innocent people.

All, I see is a one person smear campaign of a victim of the IDF, which is the sort of thing that happens all the time, when the IDF murders someone. All kinds of nonsense is spouted about how the victim had is coming. Corrie was unarmed, when the bulldozer crushed her, but that doesn't matter to you, as your more interested in smearing her. Again, its utterly disgusting to blame a victim like this.

The entire Arab world aiming to wipe the tiny state of Israel off the map, with the aid of susceptible middle class white people, is utterly disgusting to me, but each to their own.

yore · 02-09-2012 3:38pm

FrontStorm wrote: »

Your posts are diverging wildly off-topic and descending into a rant. I have summarised the four paragraphs in your last post. Correct me if it's inaccurate but I think you'll find it's a fair summary.

Nope. That post was not a response to you. Life isn't all about you. I previously referred to your username being very similar to a well known extreme right organisation/website. That's all. Another user said that was unlikely. I responded to them, not you, and I gave some examples of where people are attracted to ideologies without actually understanding what they represent. Therefore I didn't fully agree with the theory that your username was not a reference to stormfront simply on the basis that stormfront would spread hate about jews.

FrontStorm wrote: »

Bloody Sunday is completely different to the Rachel Corrie incident. Catholics should've been allowed to partake in a peaceful protest in their own city. The British Army opening fire on them was wrong. This does not give the Catholics permission to begin a terrorist campaign against innocent Protestant civilians, however. That's all I'll say on the matter. Start another thread about Bloody Sunday if you want. Don't make any more presumptions about my personal views again, got it?

On the other hand, Rachel Corrie traveled to a war zone half way across the world, to a country where she had no business, and ran around a demolition site, having ignored several warnings beforehand. If you play with fire, you'll get burned.

The logic that you applied to Rachel Corrie is the same logic that people applied in defence of the actions of soldiers on Bloody Sunday. If you have consistent thinking, then you must side consistently on either the protesters' or state's side. We assume you are a logical person so therefore you support the actions of the soldiers who were "doing their job". Got it?
Of course you fully have the right to be inconsistent and say that the illegally marching, and ignoring warnings, civils rights protestors in Derry was a legitimate protest whereas Rachel Corrie was asking for it by "playing with fire".

Most sane and logical people would see the parallels and say that in both cases the soldiers, and by extension state, illegally killed those people or at the very least failed to do their job.

You however say it was wrong for the British army to kill those people, but ok for the Israelis to kill Rachael corrie? Hence the confusion. You may be able to clear it up with a more substantive answer than that in one case you decided to pick the protesters as "your team", and in another, you picked the state/army.

It has nothing got to do with subsequent events.

FrontStorm wrote: »

I still reject your claim that the IDF were demolishing houses. They were clearing rubble and vegetation that day. I also reject your claim that the bulldozer driver could see Corrie. The official recording of events states:

Well done on rejecting claims I never made.

FrontStorm wrote: »

BTW, Peace activists don't carry automatic weapons.

Blah blah blah....She's not exactly "carrying it" now is she. she's in a house and holding it. Perhaps to have evidence as to what the people there are living with.
What next? Show me a photo of her holding a carrot in that same house and tell me that that makes her a farmer?
I have friends who've had photographs taken of themselves holding guns when abroad. Just for the novelty. I don't think they are plotting to kill all infidels just yet..

Israeli ruling on Corrie death draws widespread condemnation

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