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New political parties - several questions

  • 20-09-2012 1:47pm
    #1
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭


    Have any new political parties been formed recently that people feel are worth highlighting?

    What happened to Amhran Nua?
    What happened to the Shane Ross Centre Right Party? (seems to have never materialised)


Comments

  • #2
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    Have any new political parties been formed recently that people feel are worth highlighting?

    What happened to Amhran Nua?
    What happened to the Shane Ross Centre Right Party? (seems to have never materialised)

    I think what happened to the new political parties and the other grass roots movements was, in a sense, the 2011 election. Most of those parties formed in 2010, on the back of the opposition to the then government, but they never really had a chance to build sufficient momentum before the election - and 2011 was then a completely different ball game, with a relatively popular fresh government and a troika agreement which constrained policy choices.

    And despite the grumbling about the current government, it's nothing like the previous one, where the main party had been in power for over a decade and presided over both boom and bust.

    So, as far as I can see, a nascent reform movement effectively had the rug pulled out from under it just as it was getting going. The way that seems to have actually killed off a lot of the reform-minded parties is obviously a pity, since a 2016 election is a very good opportunity for a reform movement or party - good optics, a 'new republic' etc - and to fight the 2016 election you need to be putting boots to the ground now.

    As it is, I imagine we'll see another splutter of premature micro-parties in 2015-2016, which will again come to nothing much.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • #3
    K3lso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭K3lso


    As far as I can tell (and I could be way off here) is that Amhran Nua were too much like the current Establishment to ever be seen in a different light. Shane Ross at one point may have looked promising but he did a runner at a critical time so I wouldn't be looking in his direction for any meaningful change. There were of course some exciting groups that have started in recent years.

    I would say that the Irish Liberal Party were onto a winner at one point but they morphed into the Irish Democratic Party that seemed to talk the talk. However, if you were to read their manifesto now, it's been so completely turned on it's head that it doesn't represent any meaningful change. Again, correct me on that.

    I would vote for a socially liberal, fiscally conservative party which in Ireland, we don't have yet. There is a place for them. Indeed, there is always a place for logic in our mad world.


  • #4
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    I think what happened to the new political parties and the other grass roots movements was, in a sense, the 2011 election. Most of those parties formed in 2010, on the back of the opposition to the then government, but they never really had a chance to build sufficient momentum before the election - and 2011 was then a completely different ball game, with a relatively popular fresh government and a troika agreement which constrained policy choices.

    Accurate observation imo, but the Greens had some interesting proposals, and they were swept out also, so it seems we have ended up in the situation where there is even less genuine discussion of 'reform' now (ignoring the soundbytes from all mainstream parties) than there was prior to the collapse etc.

    Perhaps it's to be expected, but it strikes me as odd judging by how angry and frustrated people seem to be with the system (as opposed to any one party).

    None of that energy seems to be materializing in the political arena...I would have assumed it would.
    I don't really understand why.

    And despite the grumbling about the current government, it's nothing like the previous one, where the main party had been in power for over a decade and presided over both boom and bust.

    So, as far as I can see, a nascent reform movement effectively had the rug pulled out from under it just as it was getting going. The way that seems to have actually killed off a lot of the reform-minded parties is obviously a pity, since a 2016 election is a very good opportunity for a reform movement or party - good optics, a 'new republic' etc - and to fight the 2016 election you need to be putting boots to the ground now.

    As it is, I imagine we'll see another splutter of premature micro-parties in 2015-2016, which will again come to nothing much.

    Absolutely.
    I was just thinking recently about this idea you proposed not so long ago:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056589784

    I think that would be any incredible platform for any party to launch themselves from.
    That should be happening now.
    But we haven't seen even a glimmer.

    Why do you think it's not happening?


  • #5
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    I think what happened to the new political parties and the other grass roots movements was, in a sense, the 2011 election. Most of those parties formed in 2010, on the back of the opposition to the then government, but they never really had a chance to build sufficient momentum before the election - and 2011 was then a completely different ball game, with a relatively popular fresh government and a troika agreement which constrained policy choices.

    And despite the grumbling about the current government, it's nothing like the previous one, where the main party had been in power for over a decade and presided over both boom and bust.

    So, as far as I can see, a nascent reform movement effectively had the rug pulled out from under it just as it was getting going. The way that seems to have actually killed off a lot of the reform-minded parties is obviously a pity, since a 2016 election is a very good opportunity for a reform movement or party - good optics, a 'new republic' etc - and to fight the 2016 election you need to be putting boots to the ground now.

    As it is, I imagine we'll see another splutter of premature micro-parties in 2015-2016, which will again come to nothing much.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    Spot on, the election was called quicker than expected, it was a mere 5 months after the IMF entered the stage, you need a lot more time than that to raise funds/members

    It is a very difficult thing to do, you will live or die not on your policies per say, it will be on the amount of funds you can raise, you are fighting against big powerful electoral machines

    My opinion is this, I think we need to organise an independent reform movement, why, because it is something we can all agree on and it is very difficult to argue against, it can also unite left and right ( which is very important as you can expect very little transfers)

    With an eye on the 2014 local elections, where it is easier to win seats, and because even in good times government parties traditionally get a hammering, and because I can't see FF making gains just yet ( if ever) there is a real apitite for something new and it is an opportunity to get people elected onto local councils

    Now if you do manage to do that ( and I know just how difficult that can be) over a number of councils accross the country, you then begin a campaign of naming and shaming waste in the system, it is much easier to do this in the age of social media than it was years ago. This will put the fear of God into TDs fearing for their seats, eating their market share if you will.

    This is will prompt the governemt parties to either adopt real reform policy or allow you build more and more support.

    I believe that if a new party wants to succeed they need to play the same game the current parties play ( ie parish pump politics), you would be playing on their "pitch" as it were, you need to drag them onto a new pitch to be able to beat them into history ( I believe that is why we no longer have the PDs or Greens, they were just not good at playing the game)

    The above theory could be full of holes, that I can't see, I'd appreciate other people opinion/input


  • #6
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    K3lso wrote: »
    I would vote for a socially liberal, fiscally conservative party which in Ireland, we don't have yet.

    As would I.
    It seems there is a huge chunk of the Irish electorate who would support such a party (probably a significant chunk of people who voted Fine Gael at the last election would, and to a lesser extent FF)

    And if I had a euro for every time I've heard people say it would be great to have such a party over the last several years... but it still hasn't happened tho.
    Surely such a party should have been borne out of this crisis - as a natural reaction - and if that has not been sufficient motivation, then what could possibly be sufficient?

    It seems it will never happen in our lifetimes.


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  • #7
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    As would I.
    It seems there is a huge chunk of the Irish electorate who would support such a party (probably a significant chunk of people who voted Fine Gael at the last election would, and to a lesser extent FF)

    And if I had a euro for every time I've heard people say it would be great to have such a party over the last several years... but it still hasn't happened tho.
    Surely such a party should have been borne out of this crisis - as a natural reaction - and if that has not been sufficient motivation, then what could possibly be sufficient?

    It seems it will never happen in our lifetimes.


    Such a party would never happen.

    Look at the examples, take one.


    http://nationalforum.ie/?page_id=2


    fiscally conservative but off-the-wall catholic and irish. Most new parties have a reactionary element, in their case it is the Irish language and the Catholic philosophy, almost Youth Defence in its radicalism. Those are the things that drive the members.

    New left-wing parties have a "rage against the machine" economic basis and can therefore be liberal and easygoing on social issues as that is less reactionary.

    Cannot see how a fiscally conservative, socially liberal mix can gather adherents to a new cause. Just vote FG or Labour depending on how liberal you are.


  • #8
    K3lso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭K3lso


    Godge wrote: »
    Such a party would never happen.

    Look at the examples, take one.


    http://nationalforum.ie/?page_id=2


    fiscally conservative but off-the-wall catholic and irish. Most new parties have a reactionary element, in their case it is the Irish language and the Catholic philosophy, almost Youth Defence in its radicalism. Those are the things that drive the members.

    New left-wing parties have a "rage against the machine" economic basis and can therefore be liberal and easygoing on social issues as that is less reactionary.

    Cannot see how a fiscally conservative, socially liberal mix can gather adherents to a new cause. Just vote FG or Labour depending on how liberal you are.

    There are people far more fiscally conservative than FG and far more socially liberal than Labour. They're called Libertarian.


  • #9
    Lantus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    Have any new political parties been formed recently that people feel are worth highlighting?

    What happened to Amhran Nua?
    What happened to the Shane Ross Centre Right Party? (seems to have never materialised)

    All western countries need a new direction. The answer is not party politics though. Its odd that virtually all western democracy's have polarised into just 2 major parties each taking turns at being leaders. All act more in line with large corporations in selecting and indocrinating the people who they tell us to vote for and employing vast armies of advisors, marketers, speech writers. Who are these people that they are unable to solve the problems of society? And who are we to keep accepting the rubbish they spout about how nothing can change unless we maintain their preferencial lifestyles.

    Politians at best pass laws, and laws dont solve problems. We need technically minded people with relevant education and knowledge to be made responsible for changing society into the what we want it to be. For the last 100 years we have been voting for self confident charmers and could conceivably keep on doing it for another 100 years if we continue to believe in the current system (or are told to believe in it...)

    All of the problems of society are technical in nature and should be able to be solved by a scientific approach. Do the current generation or upcoming breed of politicians posses these technical problem solving skills? I have yet to meet one who does.

    However, even if we select the most inteligent and ethical group of individuals to address these issue and abolish party's we still have a massive problem in that our monetary system by default encourages corruption and the placement of profit above people or environment.

    The real challenge is moving society away from a monetarily based society towards something else like a resource based economy. Quite a challenge, but not impossible.

    So the question is not which party can we vote for to make things better, but rather what system of governance do we now need for our time to meet our current and future needs.

    "You cannot expect to solve problems with the same level of thinking that created them" - Albert Einstein


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