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Swiftway BRT: Issues highlighted in public consultation
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12-08-2014 6:38pm#1
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I see Victor made a representation.
I also found some amusement from the juxtaposition of these two lines:• The bus licence to operate the BRT routes should be put out to tender - this
should increase competition in the transport sector.
• Dublin Bus should be awarded this contract through direct award model due to its
track record and expertise in Dublin City.
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Have you seen Georges St/Dame St/ Westmoreland st at night time ? It looks like a taxi convention most of the time, any plan that allows taxis use the route is doomed to failure unless the serious oversupply of Taxis in Dublin is addressed first. At a minimum you need to get rid of at least 70% of the taxis currently licensed.
Crikey cdebru...do you want to start an armed insurrection :eek: !
I see your point however,as it is the direct and entirely predictable result of one of the most cack-handed implimentations of "Policy" ever attempted by an Irish Government.
The,by now,Infamous Bobby Molloy decision to come up with yet another ISIP (Irish Solution-Irish Problem) in panic stricken response to,yet another,Constitutional Issue,sealed the fate of Dublin City's already precarious Traffic Management infrastructure.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/deregulation-ruined-taxi-drivers-overnight-29709864.html
However,the notion of "getting rid of" 70% of the current suspects,however attractive it may seem,is a non-runner.
What IS enitrely feasible is for the Regulatory Authority to REGULATE the situation.
This could be done in many ways,one of which would be to simply allocate "Shifts" to numbers of Taxi Drivers or Vehicles accurately patched to the demand profiles which are by now well charted.
Taxi's could be allocated free "Shifts" with any operations outside those allocated hours being subject to a "Surchage" enforced by Roof Sign Number and payable automatically by Direct Debit from the Taxidrivers pre-registered operating account.
When one comes across lines of parked Taxi's totally blocking City Centre Streets,often for hours,then it is illustrating regular over-provision,which,in the circumstances,merits Immediate action.
Similarly,a quick inspection of the vehicles passing through the College Green Bus-Gate each day will show a significant number of EMPTY Taxi's,many of which can be seen doing circuits of the CC area in the hope of a fare.
No problems here,except that their presence is rendering the PRINCIPLE of the Bus-Gate redundant,simply due to the numbers of empty Taxi's involved.
Regulating the Taxi Industry is what the NTA are being paid to do,with the only question being,WHY are they not doing it ?
It sure aint Rocket Science,as already proven by Bobby Molloy T.D
Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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antoinolachtnai wrote: »Sure, it can all work, if you have road space. Decent bus operations help too. We have neither in Dublin.
You can't really override or control a railway order with a planning permission as I understand it. In legal terms, the railway order holds its precedence until you vary it. It obviously depends on the management of the whole system too. It is really a matter of how much the train operator decides to allow green to the traffic.
It's not really workable to have joint running of a stopping bus service through a tram stop. Think about it. It just won't work. If the bus station is before the luas stop, the bus will block the luas. If the bus stop is after the luas station, the luas will block the bus, and in certain circumstances the bus will still block the luas. It just won't work. It could work if you had a bypass at the stations to keep the buses and trams out of each others' way. But there is really no space to do that.
If they did want to do this, which would be crazy, I think they would have to go back to ABP and have the railway order varied.
As other cities in Europe show, it's not just about space but about how we use the space. Extra restrictions city centre on private cars are coming with Luas and BRT can add to that.
Sometimes it's mainly about road design and layout -- for example the Drumcondra Road: If centre-of-road BRT is used on such roads it could give BRT a distinct advantage by removing a lot of conflicts (parking, left turns, loads etc) and allow for buses to overtake others at stops.
Re railway order: I think I missunderstood you when you said BRT "won't benefit from a railway order to give it the priority that Luas" -- I was thinking more along the lines of the general route priority etc, not the interaction with the current/planned Luas lines. There's really no interaction expect the crossing points mentioned and the bit at lower O'Connell St -- lots of that could be avoided or limited by putting two-way BRT on the east side of O'Connell Street.
This is what I have in mind for centre-of-road BRT:
An example of staggered stops north and south of the junction to allow for turning lanes:
Have you seen Georges St/Dame St/ Westmoreland st at night time ? It looks like a taxi convention most of the time, any plan that allows taxis use the route is doomed to failure unless the serious oversupply of Taxis in Dublin is addressed first. At a minimum you need to get rid of at least 70% of the taxis currently licensed.
Yes, I have. Wexford St is the worst by far, and BRT does not go that far. But with taxis at night, a Friday / Saturday night issue should not be dictating how we plan BRT lines.
A maybe less apparent but a far larger problem for a larger percentage of the time is the poorly designed and regulated loading and parking. This issue affects rush hour on weekdays and weekends outside cycle lane hours when the streets become a free-for-all for parking (and that affects buses and adds to the taxi issue too).yep completely agree, Georges street is going to mental with the extra bus routes alongside the amount of taxis etc when the luas works kick in. I can't imagine how its going to work with brts
While private cars often make up a small percentage of the people traveling on the street, they often cause more or at least as much congestion as taxis.
Even just look at the left turn from Georges Street to Dame Street -- the line of cars is often backed up to Exchequer St, which stops buses from getting into the often half empty bus / cycle /taxi right turning lane.
Trying to make out that removing private cars won't make any difference because there's too many buses or taxis (which are also issues) was already claimed and proven wrong about College Green. The oversupply of taxis is an issue, I'm not claiming otherwise but tackling the level of private cars is one way of making a difference.0 -
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or an even better idea, stop issuing licences and let the market sort itself out, that way the taxis will eventually match to demand, if it goes under the amount for the demand then issue licences again for a while til it comes back upCrikey cdebru...do you want to start an armed insurrection :eek: !
I see your point however,as it is the direct and entirely predictable result of one of the most cack-handed implimentations of "Policy" ever attempted by an Irish Government.
The,by now,Infamous Bobby Molloy decision to come up with yet another ISIP (Irish Solution-Irish Problem) in panic stricken response to,yet another,Constitutional Issue,sealed the fate of Dublin City's already precarious Traffic Management infrastructure.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/deregulation-ruined-taxi-drivers-overnight-29709864.html
However,the notion of "getting rid of" 70% of the current suspects,however attractive it may seem,is a non-runner.
What IS enitrely feasible is for the Regulatory Authority to REGULATE the situation.
This could be done in many ways,one of which would be to simply allocate "Shifts" to numbers of Taxi Drivers or Vehicles accurately patched to the demand profiles which are by now well charted.
Taxi's could be allocated free "Shifts" with any operations outside those allocated hours being subject to a "Surchage" enforced by Roof Sign Number and payable automatically by Direct Debit from the Taxidrivers pre-registered operating account.
When one comes across lines of parked Taxi's totally blocking City Centre Streets,often for hours,then it is illustrating regular over-provision,which,in the circumstances,merits Immediate action.
Similarly,a quick inspection of the vehicles passing through the College Green Bus-Gate each day will show a significant number of EMPTY Taxi's,many of which can be seen doing circuits of the CC area in the hope of a fare.
No problems here,except that their presence is rendering the PRINCIPLE of the Bus-Gate redundant,simply due to the numbers of empty Taxi's involved.
Regulating the Taxi Industry is what the NTA are being paid to do,with the only question being,WHY are they not doing it ?
It sure aint Rocket Science,as already proven by Bobby Molloy T.DI'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.
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Nice graphics, monument. Seeing a section like that really gets one (well, me) thinking about how the "space between buildings" might be better divvied up in Dublin, both in town and in the burbs.
And...there's room for Trees too Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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As other cities in Europe show, it's not just about space but about how we use the space. Extra restrictions city centre on private cars are coming with Luas and BRT can add to that.
Sometimes it's mainly about road design and layout -- for example the Drumcondra Road: If centre-of-road BRT is used on such roads it could give BRT a distinct advantage by removing a lot of conflicts (parking, left turns, loads etc) and allow for buses to overtake others at stops.
Re railway order: I think I missunderstood you when you said BRT "won't benefit from a railway order to give it the priority that Luas" -- I was thinking more along the lines of the general route priority etc, not the interaction with the current/planned Luas lines. There's really no interaction expect the crossing points mentioned and the bit at lower O'Connell St -- lots of that could be avoided or limited by putting two-way BRT on the east side of O'Connell Street.
This is what I have in mind for centre-of-road BRT:
An example of staggered stops north and south of the junction to allow for turning lanes:
Yes, I have. Wexford St is the worst by far, and BRT does not go that far. But with taxis at night, a Friday / Saturday night issue should not be dictating how we plan BRT lines.
A maybe less apparent but a far larger problem for a larger percentage of the time is the poorly designed and regulated loading and parking. This issue affects rush hour on weekdays and weekends outside cycle lane hours when the streets become a free-for-all for parking (and that affects buses and adds to the taxi issue too).
While private cars often make up a small percentage of the people traveling on the street, they often cause more or at least as much congestion as taxis.
Even just look at the left turn from Georges Street to Dame Street -- the line of cars is often backed up to Exchequer St, which stops buses from getting into the often half empty bus / cycle /taxi right turning lane.
Trying to make out that removing private cars won't make any difference because there's too many buses or taxis (which are also issues) was already claimed and proven wrong about College Green. The oversupply of taxis is an issue, I'm not claiming otherwise but tackling the level of private cars is one way of making a difference.
I don't think anyone said removing private cars won't make any difference, just that you can't have a proper functioning BRT if those BRT lanes allow access to 25,000+ taxis particularly in around the city center, whilst the problem is more obvious at night time it extends into daytime as well, the bottom of Grafton street taxi rank that at times extends down to college green, and the only place where I have seen Gardai actually try and control it but in vain.
Central bank and Westmoreland street and Aston/ Wellington Quay are getting worse by the week. And it will get worse as Luas and BRT impinge further on the legitimate taxi ranks and the city center is turned into one big taxi rank.
I know Alec said it can't be done but it is going to have to be done or the city will literally grind to a halt at least 70% of them have to go, the easiest way is barriers to entry/remain in the industry, all taxis should be wheelchair accessible, and strict standards on car quality so not some 20 year old Fiat wheelchair taxi, that way you will drive out most of the cowboy fly by nights and leave people who are commited and willing to invest to provide a proper sustainable taxi service. Sustainable for the city and the taxi drivers themselves.0 -
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