Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

Dempsey · 18-05-2012 3:03pm

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

What does it benefit him to be so secretive about the details of the consortium?
I'd love the bid to collapse again if for nothing other than my petty amusement.

Is Green obliged to buy the club now or can he and his consortium still back out?

Green's consortium buying the club is conditional on a CVA being agreed, his investors have the option of opting out of the consortium. Its a fairly messy arrangement. The benefit is that these investors can walk away if a CVA isnt agreed without being known, he says. I wonder if there is 20 investors at all.

Ticketus are now a creditor too, their ticket deal has been terminated.

Jelle1880 · 18-05-2012 3:25pm

From RangersTV:

CHARLES GREEN has revealed two of the names involved in the Sevco consortium taking over Rangers - and he has insisted that interest is growing daily.

Speaking exclusively to RangersTV, Mr Green has identified Indonesian businessman Jude Allen and Middle Eastern lawyer Mazen Houssami as two of the key protagonists along with a Singapore Family Trust who are part of founding group of investors.

However, since the takeover news broke last weekend Mr Green has been inundated with requests to join the consortium

He told Blues News: "I can now provide two names, as I have clearance to do so on their part, of investors who are on the list.

"One guy is Jude Allen who is an Indonesian investor and the second is a lawyer from the Middle East Mazen Houssami.

A Dub in Glasgo · 18-05-2012 3:40pm

I put Jude Allen into Wikipedia and the following gets listed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Jude_Catholic_Church,_Allen,_Texas

Jelle1880 · 18-05-2012 3:45pm

Houssami has a twitter page which has 6 followers and clearly doesn't get used. His 7th follower in the last few minutes is a Celtic fan.

Obsessed much ?

A Dub in Glasgo · 18-05-2012 3:51pm

Obsessed? not a chance. There is a great little add on to firefox that allows you to search Google or Wikipedia when you highlight a word or words and it takes about 2 seconds

Dempsey · 18-05-2012 3:52pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Obsessed? not a chance. There is a great little add on to firefox that allows you to search Google or Wikipedia when you highlight a word or words and it takes about 2 seconds

Whats the name of that add on?

Jelle1880 · 18-05-2012 3:54pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Obsessed? not a chance. There is a great little add on to firefox that allows you to search Google or Wikipedia when you highlight a word or words and it takes about 2 seconds

I wasn't talking about you, but hey... if the shoe fits

A Dub in Glasgo · 18-05-2012 3:58pm

Dempsey wrote: »

Whats the name of that add on?

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/fastestfox-browse-faster/?src=search

shankespony · 18-05-2012 4:20pm

Tens of Millions Rangers denied SPL Clubs!!!

Makes interesting reading

http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=9104

Pompey Magnus · 18-05-2012 4:33pm

How can Ticketus be a creditor to Rangers for the £20m+ and at the same time go after Whyte for the money on court? If they won the court case and got a good offer in a CVA wouldn't that mean them being paid twice for the same investment?

Surely if Whyte owes them them the money then the club doesn't and vice versa?

Jelle1880 · 18-05-2012 4:35pm

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

How can Ticketus be a creditor to Rangers for the £20m+ and at the same time go after Whyte for the money on court? If they won the court case and got a good offer in a CVA wouldn't that mean them being paid twice for the same investment?

Surely if Whyte owes them them the money then the club doesn't and vice versa?

Green has said that the Ticketus deal is gone, but I haven't read anything about that from Ticketus.

Ticketus always said that, if Rangers should for some reason not be able to pay them back, then they would go after Whyte (For which they have started proceedings I think).

Dempsey · 18-05-2012 4:39pm

You could argue over those figures but what you cant argue is that every club in the SPL lost a substantial amount of money because of Rangers cheating

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

How can Ticketus be a creditor to Rangers for the £20m+ and at the same time go after Whyte for the money on court? If they won the court case and got a good offer in a CVA wouldn't that mean them being paid twice for the same investment?

Surely if Whyte owes them them the money then the club doesn't and vice versa?

I think they are hedging their bets tbh, whoever they can get back their money from will do.

bobbysands81 · 20-05-2012 11:30am

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Houssami has a twitter page which has 6 followers and clearly doesn't get used. His 7th follower in the last few minutes is a Celtic fan.

Obsessed much ?

If only you fellas had actually used the Internet yourselves over the past few years then you wouldn't be in the trouble you're in.

PauloMN · 23-05-2012 6:29pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01j0k6k

As this proud footballing giant stands on the brink of extinction, BBC Scotland Investigates the inside story of the scandal which brought Rangers FC to its knees. This is a programme based on dozens of secret emails, letters and documents which uncover the truth behind the tax scheme which threatens the club's very existence, and reveals what went on behind the scenes in the run up to Craig Whyte's infamous takeover.

Tonight at 8pm on BBC Scotland and Norn Iron. Should be interesting.

Savage Tyrant · 23-05-2012 6:36pm

PauloMN wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01j0k6k

Tonight at 8pm on BBC Scotland and Norn Iron. Should be interesting.

Just enough time to pop to Tesco for a few bottles... Or Jelly and Ice Cream.

Beer float maybe?

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 7:05pm

BBC News already reported some stuff:

- David Murray allegedly earned £6,5m from EBT's, not specified if it's from the club or MIH (who also used them).

- Barry Ferguson and Stefan Klos allegedly earned up to £2,5m each from EBT's.

- David Grier (now of Duff and Phelps, before of MCR) knew about the Ticketus deal (everybody knew he was involved, he was pictured with Whyte when the latter first arrived at Ibrox)

So far nothing earth-shattering.

What I find more interesting is how anyone outside of HMRC could have gotten hold of documents about this.

Dempsey · 23-05-2012 7:14pm

Will this be on the BBC player, I will be playing ball myself @ 8pm and I would like to see it afterwards.

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 7:20pm

Dempsey wrote: »

Will this be on the BBC player, I will be playing ball myself @ 8pm and I would like to see it afterwards.

Most likely, but not until tomorrow I think.

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 7:34pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18148818

The list of players and staff the BBC claims to have profited from EBT's.

Some things don't add up though, the general claim is that EBT's were used from the early 2000's until around 2010, while Souness is in there too (he left in '91).

Dempsey · 23-05-2012 7:38pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18148818

The list of players and staff the BBC claims to have profited from EBT's.

Notice anything strange ?
As in how the claim is that EBT's were used from the early 2000's, yet Souness is in there too ?

My bet that it would be a bung from the Boumsong transfer.

There is claims that the EBT existed in the 90's from a former director

Redzer7 · 23-05-2012 7:47pm

PauloMN · 23-05-2012 7:53pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18148818

The list of players and staff the BBC claims to have profited from EBT's.

Some things don't add up though, the general claim is that EBT's were used from the early 2000's until around 2010, while Souness is in there too (he left in '91).

:eek: I had no idea so many players were involved. In fairness, I haven't looked into it much myself, but I thought it was limited to a smaller number of very high profile players.

Campbell Ogilvie as well ffs. So many caught up in this, it's beyond belief.

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 8:01pm

It was already known that even Ogilvie used those EBT's.

That's the whole thing, technically EBT's were not illegal, they were even put in the books and signed off on.

PauloMN · 23-05-2012 8:09pm

Pornographer/tax advisor!!!

This is going to be good....

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 8:09pm

Oh dear, seems like the BBC have outsourced this to a bunch of high school kids, this is amateur stuff.

'Covert location', bwahahaha

Idiots.

Eirebear · 23-05-2012 8:11pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It was already known that even Ogilvie used those EBT's.

That's the whole thing, technically EBT's were not illegal, they were even put in the books and signed off on.

Exactly.
People seem to be forgetting that Ebts, until hmrc revised their laws, were not illegal.

Wether they constitute so called dual contracts is obviously another qurstion.

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 8:13pm

This reminds me of those child programs, 'gather 'round kids, let grandpa tell you a story'

Murray said his EBT profits came from MIH.

Also it has been literally stated by Daly himself that he received documentation of the Tribunal, surely that's not legal ?

Now trying to tie Souness' EBT's to the transfer of Tugay at Blackburn, no evidence what so ever.

edit: There we are, took 'em long enough but finally they mentioned what they want: Trophies stripped from us.

PauloMN · 23-05-2012 8:26pm

Eirebear wrote: »

Exactly.
People seem to be forgetting that Ebts, until hmrc revised their laws, were not illegal.

Wether they constitute so called dual contracts is obviously another qurstion.

I think the question is more how they were illegally used by Rangers i.e. hidden from the SFA, and with Rangers controlling how they were used.

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 8:32pm

PauloMN wrote: »

I think the question is more how they were illegally used by Rangers i.e. hidden from the SFA, and with Rangers controlling how they were used.

They were in the books, so how were they hidden ?

It's those alleged double contracts that were supposedly hidden from the SFA.

So far I haven't seen anything we didn't already know

Apart from Spiers telling more lies.

edit: Oh, now Rangers are responsible for the bank crisis

cruiserweight · 23-05-2012 8:36pm

Prince Albert of Monaco, I am trying not to laugh here

lubo_moravcik · 23-05-2012 8:38pm

Prince Albert of Monaco hahahahahahaha, am in stitches here

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 8:39pm

Oh dear, Ellis: You're either a ****ing idiot or a crook

Albert of Monaco, ffs

PauloMN · 23-05-2012 8:44pm

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

Prince Albert of Monaco hahahahahahaha, am in stitches here

Even better than porno/tax advisor! :pac:

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 8:53pm

Wtf is he wearing

lubo_moravcik · 23-05-2012 8:56pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18148818

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 9:00pm

Well, that was that then.

I don't know what evidence they provided that wasn't already out there, but the way it was brought really doesn't help the credibility of that documentary.

PauloMN · 23-05-2012 9:02pm

So, Duff & Phelps surely cannot continue as administrators now, given their involvement in the Ticketus deal? I would imagine that the SFA will have to place another company in there.

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 9:05pm

PauloMN wrote: »

So, Duff & Phelps surely cannot continue as administrators now, given their involvement in the Ticketus deal? I would imagine that the SFA will have to place another company in there.

That part I missed (turned it off due to the sheer amateurism of it), but is this about David Grier ?

Because that's not exactly new.

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 9:07pm

Newsnight Scotland ‏@NewsnightScot
We will be speaking live to Paul Murray - head of the Blue Knights Consortium - about @markdaly2 film on #rangers #newsnicht

Pompey Magnus · 23-05-2012 9:18pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Well, that was that then.

I don't know what evidence they provided that wasn't already out there, but the way it was brought really doesn't help the credibility of that documentary.

Perhaps that is true, but the fact that Daly was spot on in October 2011 about Craig Whyte in his previous documentary when so many Rangers fans stood behind Whyte claiming the show proved an anti-Rangers agenda at the BBC does massively help the credibility of his findings.

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 9:22pm

Being right once doesn't mean you're right all the time.

I didn't see any evidence of things that aren't already known.

lubo_moravcik · 23-05-2012 9:28pm

Why would Souness receive a payment of 30 grand 10 years after leaving Rangers??

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 9:31pm

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

Why would Souness receive a payment of 30 grand 10 years after leaving Rangers??

Something to do with Tugay apparently :pac:

Or at least that's what they implied.

Dempsey · 23-05-2012 9:51pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It was already known that even Ogilvie used those EBT's.

That's the whole thing, technically EBT's were not illegal, they were even put in the books and signed off on.

Eirebear wrote: »

Exactly.
People seem to be forgetting that Ebts, until hmrc revised their laws, were not illegal.

Wether they constitute so called dual contracts is obviously another qurstion.

“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 9:52pm

Dempsey wrote: »

“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”

So you're saying that EBT's were not in the books and were therefore hidden from the SFA/SPL ?

Quick, call Mark Daly!

Dempsey · 23-05-2012 9:56pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

So you're saying that EBT's were not in the books and were therefore hidden from the SFA/SPL ?

Quick, call Mark Daly!

EBT's were in the books alright but what ye were actually doing wasnt written down, i.e. ye were cooking the books! :rolleyes:

PauloMN · 23-05-2012 10:07pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

So you're saying that EBT's were not in the books and were therefore hidden from the SFA/SPL ?

Quick, call Mark Daly!

C'mon now. It's obvious that clubs are obliged to report every single payment being made to players to the SFA. It's obvious that Rangers FC were not reporting those EBT payments to the SFA. This is a clear breach of the rules, and on a huge scale spanning at least 10 years, maybe even 20 years.

Whether these figures were in the books in some form is irrelevant. The payments would not have been associated with players anyway in the books. They would have been lodgements from Rangers FC to an offshore investment.

That's not to say that I don't believe the SFA were completely incompetent in all of this - they were - and this issue should have come up a long, long time ago.

Jelle1880 · 23-05-2012 10:09pm

But that's the whole point of putting the EBT's in the books, if they're signed off/audited (which they were) then the SFA is aware of them.

If they're not then well... they're idiots.

It's those alleged double contracts which were supposedly not reported.

edit: It's not irrelevant if only the numbers were in the books, if the books say that X-amount of money is put into a pot then that's enough for the SFA.
Which is why it was never reported until HMRC closed the loophole.

Dempsey · 23-05-2012 10:14pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

But that's the whole point of putting the EBT's in the books, if they're signed off/audited (which they were) then the SFA is aware of them.

If they're not then well... they're idiots.

It's those alleged double contracts which were supposedly not reported.

edit: It's not irrelevant if only the numbers were in the books, if the books say that X-amount of money is put into a pot then that's enough for the SFA.
Which is why it was never reported until HMRC closed the loophole.

EBT's arent the real issue, its the tax evasion involved and how it was done.

PauloMN · 23-05-2012 10:15pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

But that's the whole point of putting the EBT's in the books, if they're signed off/audited (which they were) then the SFA is aware of them.

If they're not then well... they're idiots.

It's those alleged double contracts which were supposedly not reported.

edit: It's not irrelevant if only the numbers were in the books, if the books say that X-amount of money is put into a pot then that's enough for the SFA.
Which is why it was never reported until HMRC closed the loophole.

Wow. You think there's no issue at all then with the EBT payments? All fine, and nothing for Rangers FC to answer for?

Mind you, you thought aul Craigy was going to silence the BBC with a massive lawsuit, that didn't exactly happen!

Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

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