Leinster's worst SH import

Barzipan · 18-12-2013 12:38pm #1

Is it unfair to add Lote Tuqiri to the following list?

Owen Finnegan
Eddie Hekenui
CJ van der Linde
Harry Vermaas

Sangre · 18-12-2013 12:40pm

Clint Newland.

former legend · 18-12-2013 12:40pm

Yes, very unfair.

Also, CJ van der Linde has no business on that list either.

.ak · 18-12-2013 12:41pm

Yeah defo unfair. I also remember CJ being decent for us, especially carrying.

Still waiting for the Clint Newland legends tshirt.

thomond2006 · 18-12-2013 12:42pm

I think for something like this you need to weigh up the initial hype/expectation of the player as well as how he performed in the end . Save Tokula for Munster turned out to be a waste but he only played two matches anyway.

Tuqiri didn't shine with Leinster but he was only going to be a short term cover. Plus he's 34 and injury prone.

irishbucsfan · 18-12-2013 12:44pm

It's hard to make such a list. You could easilly put the likes of Galarza and Newland on it, but they were always long shots.

Knoop was another of that type of import.

GavMan · 18-12-2013 12:47pm

Juan Gomez is up there too

former legend · 18-12-2013 12:48pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

I think for something like this you need to weigh up the initial hype/expectation of the player as well as how he performed in the end.

Nail/head. For that reason, Owen Finegan takes the prize for me.

jamiedav2011 · 18-12-2013 12:48pm

Owen Finnegan the worst of the lot for me.

As someone mentioned, the expectation needs to be factored in.

molloyjh · 18-12-2013 12:49pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's hard to make such a list. You could easilly put the likes of Galarza and Newland on it, but they were always long shots.

Knoop was another of that type of import.

Galarza and Newland were both the first to spring to mind for me, but yeah I suppose they were long shots....Sykes would have been similar too I suppose.

PlayerTrader13 · 18-12-2013 12:49pm

Ed O'Donohue?

Mahatma Geansai · 18-12-2013 1:03pm

Steven Sykes surely? He came with huge expectations, and his only significant contribution was accusations of racism.

jacothelad · 18-12-2013 1:04pm

Ella.

desertcircus · 18-12-2013 1:17pm

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Steven Sykes surely? He came with huge expectations, and his only significant contribution was accusations of racism.

Leaving aside the accusation of racial abuse (given that, as far as I remember, Mujati accepted that it was a scrum call taken up the wrong way), Sykes was just desperately unlucky. He had an indifferent start after coming straight from the end of the South African season (what a shock for a Leinster tight five signing), then got badly injured just as his girlfriend realised she was pregnant and thousands of miles from their family and friends. If things had worked out a little differently - if she'd gotten pregnant a year later - we could be talking about Sykes' pivotal role in securing another HC after coming back from injury fully fit and ready to go. As it turned out, it didn't go that way, but it seems unfair to ridicule him.

jamiedav2011 · 18-12-2013 1:34pm

desertcircus wrote: »

Leaving aside the accusation of racial abuse (given that, as far as I remember, Mujati accepted that it was a scrum call taken up the wrong way), Sykes was just desperately unlucky. He had an indifferent start after coming straight from the end of the South African season (what a shock for a Leinster tight five signing), then got badly injured just as his girlfriend realised she was pregnant and thousands of miles from their family and friends. If things had worked out a little differently - if she'd gotten pregnant a year later - we could be talking about Sykes' pivotal role in securing another HC after coming back from injury fully fit and ready to go. As it turned out, it didn't go that way, but it seems unfair to ridicule him.

Yep, would be unfair to tar Sykes with that racist controversy.

eyeball kid · 18-12-2013 1:45pm

Seem to remember some Rocky guy a couple of years back. Only stuck around a year, didn't do much.

FrannoFan · 18-12-2013 1:49pm

Eddie Hekenui was a legend!!!

FrannoFan · 18-12-2013 1:50pm

the couple of Argentinians were pretty disappointing (prop and second row)

18-12-2013 1:52pm

poor Berquist was another failure, though injury inflicted failure as opposed to poor rugby.

Galarza, Sykes definitely abject failures too in recent times.

former legend · 18-12-2013 1:52pm

FrannoFan wrote: »

the couple of Argentinians were pretty disappointing (prop and second row)

Gomez and Galarza.

Again, think they were signed as squad cover rather than big-name additions. Galarza featured for Argentina in this years Quad-Nations, no idea what became of Gomez.

FrannoFan · 18-12-2013 1:55pm

Gomez was the answer to Irelands Prop problems. Hook has been going on for years about Argentinian props and how we needed to get one in on residency and thats who showed up. He ended up subbing in the AIL. Awful player.

Neil3030 · 18-12-2013 2:29pm

I could have sworn I saw Juan Gomez at some point later on though... did he end up playing for the pumas? I remember seeing him come on as a sub in either a high enough level club game or an international....

Buer · 18-12-2013 2:34pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

I could have sworn I saw Juan Gomez at some point later on though... did he end up playing for the pumas? I remember seeing him come on as a sub in either a high enough level club game or an international....

Gomez played for the Pumas before he even arrived. Bit of a lazy git and is back in Argentina now. He had some talent though supposedly.

Galarza, the lock, started games in this year's RC and did alright.

Neil3030 · 18-12-2013 2:37pm

Buer wrote: »

Gomez played for the Pumas before he even arrived. Bit of a lazy git and is back in Argentina now. He had some talent though supposedly.

Galarza, the lock, started games in this year's RC and did alright.

yeah this was definitely some years after his time at Leinster... maybe last year's AIs?

Losty Dublin · 18-12-2013 8:35pm

eyeball kid wrote: »

Seem to remember some Rocky guy a couple of years back. Only stuck around a year, didn't do much.

Maybe you are thinking of Rocky Elsom, the Aussie blindside flanker who played the one season for Leinster.

Apart from his 11 MOTM awards in the Magners League from 13 starts, 3 MOTM awards in the Heineken Cup winning 2008/9 season including one in the final itself, his European Player of the Year 2008/09 award and Magners League player of the season, we can all agree that he was a flop

gaius c · 18-12-2013 8:41pm

PlayerTrader13 wrote: »

Ed O'Donohue?

Could add Trevor Hogan too if big Ed counts.
Keogh wasn't much cop either.

jamiedav2011 · 18-12-2013 9:01pm

gaius c wrote: »

Could add Trevor Hogan too if big Ed counts.
Keogh wasn't much cop either.

Ah stop will you. Both Hogan, and particularly Keogh are firstly from Munster (EOD is an Aussie), and both were actually good players, Keogh in particular.

gaius c · 18-12-2013 9:03pm

Ah. Forgot about the SH bit in the thread title.

However, Keogh filled a role not unlike that of Niall Ronan's for Munster.
Not good enough for his own province and decent enough at lower level but seriously out of place at higher level.

jamiedav2011 · 18-12-2013 9:08pm

gaius c wrote: »

Ah. Forgot about the SH bit in the thread title.

However, Keogh filled a role not unlike that of Niall Ronan's for Munster.
Not good enough for his own province and decent enough at lower level but seriously out of place at higher level.

Neither of those players are/were 'seriously' out of place at a higher level.
Little underpowered maybe, but both solid provincial players who don't deserve to be near this thread. Keogh in particular was really good for Leinster in the league.

To compare guys like Galarza, Gomez, Finnegan, Hekenui etc to solid HEC level pros like Hogan and Keogh is disingenuous.

gaius c · 18-12-2013 9:12pm

A solid HEC level pro is somebody like Shane Jennings. Keogh and Hogan were solid Rabo level.

Maybe a teeny bit cheeky adding Ed o'D too considering that he played for Ireland and came from Ulster.

irishbucsfan · 18-12-2013 9:26pm

Ed O'Donoghue is on the list because he was awful for Leinster and disappeared after a promising spell at Ulster had us believing he was going to have a good future with us.

Steven Keogh was a great signing for Leinster on the other hand, held our back row together in the ML after SOB broke his leg. Hogan not so much as he had to retire through injury.

gaius c · 18-12-2013 9:31pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ed O'Donoghue is on the list because he was awful for Leinster and disappeared after a promising spell at Ulster had us believing he was going to have a good future with us.

Steven Keogh was a great signing for Leinster on the other hand, held our back row together in the ML after SOB broke his leg. Hogan not so much as he had to retire through injury.

Is he a SH import though?
I was correctly pulled up on this so it's only fair to question if a lad who arrived from Ulster and who had already played for Ireland should be classed the same as a Vermaas.

irishbucsfan · 18-12-2013 9:34pm

gaius c wrote: »

Is he a SH import though?
I was correctly pulled up on this so it's only fair to question if a lad who arrived from Ulster and who had already played for Ireland should be classed the same as a Vermaas.

Well he's from the SH, whether he's a SH import is a good question because he didn't come directly from a SH team. But I suppose this counts for anyone from the SH, not just people who came directly from a SH team.

BBDBB · 18-12-2013 9:34pm

based on his first season with Leinster Id have said Isa Nacewa
he was appalling, I know he got shifted about from 10 to 15 and amongst the backs but his handling and kicking was error strewn, I wondered what the heck Leinster had ever seen in him

His last couple of seasons with them he was a safe pair of hands, committed in the tackle and his positional kicking was excellent, wonderful to watch. cap doffed to him

Swan Curry · 18-12-2013 9:43pm

BBDBB wrote: »

based on his first season with Leinster Id have said Isa Nacewa
he was appalling, I know he got shifted about from 10 to 15 and amongst the backs but his handling and kicking was error strewn, I wondered what the heck Leinster had ever seen in him

His last couple of seasons with them he was a safe pair of hands, committed in the tackle and his positional kicking was excellent, wonderful to watch. cap doffed to him

I see where you're coming from,but still,

NO.

gaius c · 18-12-2013 9:46pm

BBDBB wrote: »

based on his first season with Leinster Id have said Isa Nacewa
he was appalling, I know he got shifted about from 10 to 15 and amongst the backs but his handling and kicking was error strewn, I wondered what the heck Leinster had ever seen in him

His last couple of seasons with them he was a safe pair of hands, committed in the tackle and his positional kicking was excellent, wonderful to watch. cap doffed to him

In in that first season at 10, he was electric with the ball in hand, just rubbish at kicking and game-management, a definite step up from the likes of Eddie & Christian Warner.

BBDBB · 18-12-2013 9:56pm

electric as in he looked shocked every time a pass managed to find the man and he didn't knock on

.

former legend · 18-12-2013 10:00pm

This thread has gone down a horrible path.

It went from players who were genuine flops to ridiculous criticism of anyone who didn't turn out to be an absolute legend. Trevor Hogan and Stephen Keogh were excellent players.

Now we're talking about Isa Nacewa.

For fnck's sake.

BBDBB · 18-12-2013 10:04pm

Perhaps the distinction wasn't clear, but I did specify the difference between Nacewas first season where I thought he was a liability when he took the field and where he ended up in his final few seasons where he was excellent and frequently amongst the very best

gaius c · 18-12-2013 10:05pm

BBDBB wrote: »

electric as in he looked shocked every time a pass managed to find the man and he didn't knock on .

I appreciate that you're trying to back up your point as made but the end effect is that you're backing up an alley and a blind one at that.

BBDBB · 18-12-2013 10:07pm

gaius c wrote: »

I appreciate that you're trying to back up your point as made but the end effect is that you're backing up an alley and a blind one at that.

I don't believe so, but you are entitled to your opinion

Dietsquirt · 18-12-2013 10:12pm

Barzipan wrote: »

Is it unfair to add Lote Tuqiri to the following list?

Owen Finnegan
Eddie Hekenui
CJ van der Linde
Harry Vermaas

I have to be honest, i have no idea who they are/were

[Jackass] · 18-12-2013 11:02pm

Vermas and Hekenui were both crappy imports, prop and an out-half. Along with Newland, can't be too harsh on them, I mean, what did we expect? They were punts rather than big name signings. Even Galarza, he was an Argentinian international, but still I don't remember being super excited about him signing rather than hopeful he would be good.

Finnegan on the other hand was a world cup winning lock, who also scored a try for Australia in the world cup final in 1999, who then signed for Leinster and was absolute gash.

Given the hype of the signing, by far the biggest let down. CJ Van Der Linde, another world cup winner, was a massive let down too, but I don't think he was terrible when he played, he was just always injured.

Tiquri would be harsh. A let down perhaps, but I don't think anyone was expecting him to be a superstar either. Definitely hoped for better, but oh well.

Fireball07 · 19-12-2013 4:22am

Owen Finnegan is a big big name in rugby really, he won a WC, there was a lot of hype when he came to Ireland. Huge disappointment.

I remember a few of my Leinster-based cousins telling me how good Hekenui was going to be... he did play in the HC a couple of times iirc. I don't think he was thaaat bad compared to some of the others.

The likes of Galarza and Sykes, I expected to be better.

hahashake · 19-12-2013 4:42am

Michael Bent.

CatFromHue · 19-12-2013 5:00am

To be honest I remember Eddie Hekinui but I was of the age that I couldn't figure out if he was a good or bad player. I do remember the stick he used to get though, Franno wasn't a fan anyway.

Finnegan would be the worst import for me as, as mentioned above, he came with a good reputation and we expected results.

Clint Newland in all fairness was never brought into be a major addition to he squad. HE came in and did his job and then left so for me he was a good pro.

I have to say in all fairness that we have had some poor SH imports but we've had more good ones too.

Also did Ed O'Donoghue play for UL Bohs at one stage?

WeeBushy · 19-12-2013 5:03am

hahashake wrote: »

Michael Bent.

No way. He came to us after playing a level below the Rabo, had no preseason and was parachuted straight into the Irish team, where he showed up pretty well. This created an unfair amount of expectation on a player who wasn't up to speed. He's a solid squad player, which is what he was signed for in the first place. I'm perfectly content with Bent so far.

And whoever mentioned Keogh is so far off the mark. He was a magnificent squad player to have. He fulfilled the roll that Auva'a played last year, filled in when internationals were away, and covered injuries, and was a steady pair of hands. I was sad to see him go as I thought he was an important squad player at the time.

We need those kind of guys. If they aren't from Ireland and aren't shining week in week out people see them as flops, when in fact they are doing exactly what they were brought in to do.

CatFromHue · 19-12-2013 5:09am

I think with Keogh when he joined us he was expected to be more than just a squad player and to actually push on for Leinster first team and further honours.

Swiwi. · 19-12-2013 8:40am

hahashake wrote: »

Michael Bent.

Ah come on. The guy was a bit-part SXV player, and played ITM for Taranaki. He was promoted (not his fault) to Ireland way too prematurely, but is slowly beginning to find his feet again. He'll be a solid squad option for Leinster, which is exactly what you could expect given the level he had achieved in NZ.

former legend · 19-12-2013 8:56am

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think with Keogh when he joined us he was expected to be more than just a squad player and to actually push on for Leinster first team and further honours.

Regardless, he was neither an SH import nor was he a bad signing so he has no business being discussed in this thread.

Just looking at Keogh's record, he was actually almost ever-present in his first season (06-07), starting all our HC games that season as well as 16 league matches, slightly fewer the next season and then it all fell apart when Elsom and O'Brien arrived on the scene...

Buer · 19-12-2013 9:22am

BBDBB wrote: »

Perhaps the distinction wasn't clear, but I did specify the difference between Nacewas first season where I thought he was a liability when he took the field and where he ended up in his final few seasons where he was excellent and frequently amongst the very best

Nacewa was excellent after he came back from his broken arm in his first season. He was an ever present in the back three in the last few months and deservedly so. His performance in the HEC semi was excellent.

Leinster's worst SH import

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