Should Ireland welcome gentically modified food?

steddyeddy · 12-03-2012 1:09am #1

Teagasc the Irish agricultural and food development authority have applied to the enviromental protection agency grow genetically modified potatoes in Carlow. This in my opinion is a good thing but for some reason enviromentalists (Which I would usually consider myself) see this as something really wrong and are planning action against it. Link below.

http://www.thejournal.ie/gm-potato-trials-could-be-held-in-carlow-367973-Feb2012/

However, environmentalist groups have voiced strong concerns over the application. Tony Lowes, one of the directors of Friends of the Irish Environment, said that the issue of introducing GM crops to Irish soil presented a “Pandora’s box situation” – saying that once GM organisms were introduced to an ecosystem they could not be removed.
“We are opposed to any GM materials being grown outside a laboratory,” Lowe said. “Mistakes are common – they have caused exceedingly complex problems all over the world.”
Lowes added that there would be a “concerted effort” to oppose the application by Teagasc.

And in the link below a letter which Is from the Irish doctors enviromental asociation.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2012/0310/1224313106060.html

Sir, – It is very disappointing to note the application by Teagasc to grow genetically engineered potatoes in Carlow (Home News, February 28th). It is difficult to understand why Teagasc, the Irish agricultural and food development authority, would choose to pursue the development of genetic engineering in Irish agriculture.
Genetically engineered food has engendered widespread opposition from consumers and is in direct opposition to Bord Bia’s current campaign to highlight Ireland’s green image.
On the contrary, we must capitalise on our position as a relatively unpolluted island, and work to ensure that consumers have access to the foods that they can trust and wish to buy. – Yours, etc,
ELIZABETH CULLEN,
Irish Doctors’ Environmental Association,

To be honest I find it hard to believe a doctor wrote that. The gm crops scare is a witch hunt. People hear genetically modified and they assume the worst. In Britian there have been bigger public backlashs over gm food and in america gm crops were even vandalised. Does the arrival of gm crops worry you?

Personally I think the scientists behind gm crops should be doing more to educate people but I think that its a shame that a comittee comprised of doctors could take such an uneducated view of gm crops. Whats your views guys and girls?

MickySticks · 12-03-2012 1:10am

tl;dr

Hande hoche! · 12-03-2012 1:11am

General motors are making food?

steddyeddy · 12-03-2012 1:13am

Hande hoche! wrote: »

General motors are making food?

Yes.....yes they are.

eth0 · 12-03-2012 1:13am

Patented and copyrighted foods are bad news

steddyeddy · 12-03-2012 1:15am

eth0 wrote: »

Patented and copyrighted foods are bad news

Now you do have a point in that sense. I would advise farmers and government in Ireland and especially those in developing countries to insist on fair regulation in this regard.

bleg · 12-03-2012 1:16am

eth0 wrote: »

Patented and copyrighted foods are bad news

Sounds like you have a problem with patent and copyright law and not gm food.

Tzar Chasm · 12-03-2012 1:17am

They've been experimenting with GM crops at Carlow for Years.

What difference is this??

LeinsterDub · 12-03-2012 1:17am

eth0 wrote: »

Patented and copyrighted foods are bad news

Why lots of things we take for granted now where patented originally and after 20 years became available and you can't copyright an process

44leto · 12-03-2012 1:18am

Yes they should with open arms it is a future industry.

Washington Irving · 12-03-2012 1:18am

Bad for Ireland's 'green image', in international food markets

steddyeddy · 12-03-2012 1:22am

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

They've been experimenting with GM crops at Carlow for Years.

What difference is this??

I think their actually testing the impact on the enviroment with larger scale trials.

steddyeddy · 12-03-2012 1:22am

Saul-Goode9 wrote: »

Bad for Ireland's 'green image', in international food markets

Why?

woodoo · 12-03-2012 1:23am

Saul-Goode9 wrote: »

Bad for Ireland's 'green image', in international food markets

Absolutely. We should be going for the organic market worldwide.

Stay the hell away from GM foods.

steddyeddy · 12-03-2012 1:25am

woodoo wrote: »

Absolutely. We should be going for the organic market worldwide.

Stay the hell away from GM foods.

Again why? I think gm foods are far better than organic foods! They can be modified for any particular trait.

44leto · 12-03-2012 1:25am

Saul-Goode9 wrote: »

Bad for Ireland's 'green image', in international food markets

I don't think green organic food is the future, I think mass production is, the world needs more high intensity industrial farms.

Look at current food inflation, oil prices is a factor, but a bigger factor is the emerging east demanding more meat products, therefore more feed for livestock is needed.

12-03-2012 1:26am

eth0 wrote: »

Patented and copyrighted foods are bad news

There was a story that a farmer had his crop cross pollinated with a patented crops pollen and was successfully sued, I can't find the story but I'll link it if I do.

Also, if you buy seeds that are patented in some circumstance (perhaps all) you are not allowed harvest the seeds from that crop and replant them, you must buy them from the patent owner again.

The Internet Explorer · 12-03-2012 1:27am

I for one, welcome our new genetically modified over foods.

MungBean · 12-03-2012 1:27am

I think we should be modifying the shít out of all kinds of foods.

bleg · 12-03-2012 1:28am

Let's not let patent law affect the science.

steddyeddy · 12-03-2012 1:29am

Sacramento wrote: »

There was a story that a farmer had his crop cross pollinated with a patented crops pollen and was successfully sued, I can't find the story but I'll link it if I do.

Also, if you buy seeds that are patented in some circumstance (perhaps all) you are not allowed harvest the seeds from that crop and replant them, you must buy them from the patent owner again.

Well thats an area that needs to be looked at seriously. This could destroy farmers in developing countries. The circumstance your talking about was when a farmer bought genetically modified seeds that would only produce one crop which in turn wouldnt produce seeds that would germinate.

woodoo · 12-03-2012 1:30am

Sacramento wrote: »

There was a story that a farmer had his crop cross pollinated with a patented crops pollen and was successfully sued, I can't find the story but I'll link it if I do.

Also, if you buy seeds that are patented in some circumstance (perhaps all) you are not allowed harvest the seeds from that crop and replant them, you must buy them from the patent owner again.

Food Inc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMGFR1HfHIw

The farmer had a field next to someone on the books of the GM company. They ended up getting cross pollinated and getting sued.

SeanW · 12-03-2012 1:33am

I'm not a fan of GM agriculture. Primarily because you cannot protect neighboring farms from cross-pollination. If it does cross-pollinate, and DNA goes from a GM farm to an organic farm, it's more or less game-over for the organic farmer and there are few, if any options for redress. There is also the case that if the affected farmer doesn't destroy the crop, they can potentially become liable for patent royalties, like Percy Schmeiser was sued by Monsanto when their garbage cross-pollinated into his crops.

I've also come to realise that nature is the best genetic engineer we could ever hope for and that the more we process our food, the more we f**k it up. Like the difference between eating an organic apple and a processed ready meal full of sodium, chemicals and hydrogenated fats, the less we screw around with our food, the better.

That's not to say that all GM food is bad, an example was given on these boards of Golden Rice, which combined the Vitamin A producing capabilities of carrots with rice. But that's very little, in general my view of GM food is dim.

So no, I would not welcome it.

44leto · 12-03-2012 1:34am

The Internet Explorer wrote: »

I for one, welcome our new genetically modified over foods.

Pip-less grapes and oranges, best thing since the wheel. If they are dangerous I am already fuked, so more wont do any harm.

We are eating GM food a long time now.

steddyeddy · 12-03-2012 1:37am

SeanW wrote: »

I'm not a fan of GM agriculture. Primarily because you cannot protect neighboring farms from cross-pollination. If it does cross-pollinate, and DNA goes from a GM farm to an organic farm, it's more or less game-over for the organic farmer and there are few, if any options for redress. There is also the case that if the affected farmer doesn't destroy the crop, they can potentially become liable for patent royalties, like Percy Schmeiser was sued by Monsanto when their garbage cross-pollinated into his crops.

I've also come to realise that nature is the best genetic engineer we could ever hope for and that the more we process our food, the more we f**k it up. Like the difference between eating an organic apple and a processed ready meal full of sodium, chemicals and hydrogenated fats, the less we screw around with our food, the better.

That's not to say that all GM food is bad, an example was given on these boards of Golden Rice, which combined the Vitamin A producing capabilities of carrots with rice. But that's very little, in general my view of GM food is dim.

So no, I would not welcome it.

But all crops Gentically modifed or not can cross pollinate?

woodoo · 12-03-2012 1:38am

We have referendums on lots of crap. I would love a referendum on GM foods where both sides get to make their case. I think people don't realise there is no going back once it in brought in.

steddyeddy · 12-03-2012 1:38am

SeanW wrote: »

I'm not a fan of GM agriculture. Primarily because you cannot protect neighboring farms from cross-pollination. If it does cross-pollinate, and DNA goes from a GM farm to an organic farm, it's more or less game-over for the organic farmer and there are few, if any options for redress. There is also the case that if the affected farmer doesn't destroy the crop, they can potentially become liable for patent royalties, like Percy Schmeiser was sued by Monsanto when their garbage cross-pollinated into his crops.

I've also come to realise that nature is the best genetic engineer we could ever hope for and that the more we process our food, the more we f**k it up. Like the difference between eating an organic apple and a processed ready meal full of sodium, chemicals and hydrogenated fats, the less we screw around with our food, the better.

That's not to say that all GM food is bad, an example was given on these boards of Golden Rice, which combined the Vitamin A producing capabilities of carrots with rice. But that's very little, in general my view of GM food is dim.

So no, I would not welcome it.

Plus we have been eating genetically modified food for thousands of years. Its not a new practice.

ted1 · 12-03-2012 1:38am

We're a small island with limited land mass, we can't do high volumes. Our niche is superior organic natural products that come with a premium. Leave the freak show crops to the high volume producers.

TheBegotten · 12-03-2012 1:40am

What has organic food actually have going for it? I'm sure the Daily Mail goes on to no end about its cancer-defying, mugger-repelling superpowers, but otherwise I don't think there are advantages to eating them. Whereas GM foods are cheap, plentiful and Safe (scientists are generally thorough with these things). Remember, if we stayed natural we'd still be living naked in Africa.

steddyeddy · 12-03-2012 1:43am

TheBegotten wrote: »

What has organic food actually have going for it? I'm sure the Daily Fail goes on to no end about its cancer-defying, mugger-repelling superpowers, but otherwise I don't think there are advantages to eating them. Whereas GM foods are cheap, plentiful and Safe (scientists are generally thorough with these things). Remember, if we stayed natural we'd still be living naked in Africa.

Gm foods have saved some people from starvation and diseases related to nutirtional deficiencies.

What they could do for our crops is make them double or triple as resistant to pests. Make them grow a lot faster, make them taste better and make them produce more biomass.

Im not sure about the benifits of organic but they would not overshadow the benifits of gm foods.

skregs · 12-03-2012 1:43am

SeanW wrote: »

an organic apple

is the result of thousands of years of selective breeding to make the fruit bigger and tastier, improve cold tolerance and increase disease reistance.

steddyeddy · 12-03-2012 1:44am

ted1 wrote: »

We're a small island with limited land mass, we can't do high volumes. Our niche is superior organic natural products that come with a premium. Leave the freak show crops to the high volume producers.

Gm crops do not need to be high volume. Can we compete with our competitors if their food tastes better, lasts longer or is bigger?

SeanW · 12-03-2012 1:45am

steddyeddy wrote: »

Plus we have been eating genetically modified food for thousands of years. Its not a new practice.

Not really, for thousands of years we've been using natural means to make different types of food, for example, encouraging cross-pollination of breeds of apple tree.

The concept of growing Franken-seeds in laboratories by arbitralily splicing genes from one thing into another ... that's totally different to selective breeding.

TheBegotten · 12-03-2012 1:49am

SeanW wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

Plus we have been eating genetically modified food for thousands of years. Its not a new practice.

Not really, for thousands of years we've been using natural means to make different types of food, for example, encouraging cross-pollination of breeds of apple tree.

The concept of growing Franken-seeds in laboratories by arbitralily splicing genes from one thing into another ... that's totally different to selective breeding.

Selective breeding is a hatchet, GM is a scalpel. Which does the job cleaner?

woodoo · 12-03-2012 1:50am

I'm very uncomfortable with companies owning patents on foods. Particularly when the GM crop can spread around to other farmers land and they then are in hoc to the GM company. Very dangerous road to go down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P1CJ7IEt0c

44leto · 12-03-2012 1:52am

SeanW wrote: »

Not really, for thousands of years we've been using natural means to make different types of food, for example, encouraging cross-pollination of breeds of apple tree.

The concept of growing Franken-seeds in laboratories by arbitralily splicing genes from one thing into another ... that's another thing altogether.

Not encouraging but actively selecting, there is a difference. There are examples of natural apples, carrots, potatoes in the wild, but they are bitter and inedible. The vege we have now would not last in the wild without the intervention of man.

In effect we have created sugar pots, carrots, apples, oranges even onions, peas and peppers etc. So most our cuisine is not natural. Not even our livestock.

So now we have the power to select other qualities and why not.

Chorcai · 12-03-2012 1:52am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0uls507hvM

Round-Up, Round-Up ready Soya beans... GM foods are not the way to go.

steddyeddy · 12-03-2012 1:52am

SeanW wrote: »

Not really, for thousands of years we've been using natural means to make different types of food, for example, encouraging cross-pollination of breeds of apple tree.

The concept of growing Franken-seeds in laboratories by arbitralily splicing genes from one thing into another ... that's totally different to selective breeding.

No its not in the slightest. We have been breeding plants for certain traits for thousands of years. Now we have simply identified the genes associated with certain traits and implanted them directly into the target plants. If anything genetic modification of food is a lot more accurate than the random cross pollination of crops were you can get any combination of genes.

GLaDOS · 12-03-2012 1:57am

I had a lecture on this the other day, there is a technique of using chloroplast DNA to introduce the required trait, which results in said DNA not entering the pollen. This rules out the risk of cross pollination with non GM plants. I've no idea if this technique is currently being used at the moment though.

steddyeddy · 12-03-2012 2:00am

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/salt-loving-wheat-could-help-ease-food-crisis-183056363.html

Just saw this a gm crop that could ease the world food crisis. A type of wheat that can grow in sodium rich soil.

Plant scientists on Sunday said they had bred a strain of wheat that thrives in saline soils, boosting the quest to feed Earth's growing population at a time of water stress and climate change.
Durum wheat with a salt-loving gene had yields which were up to 25 percent greater than ordinary counterparts, according to trials carried out in highly saline fields.

steddyeddy · 12-03-2012 2:02am

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I had a lecture on this the other day, there is a technique of using chloroplast DNA to introduce the required trait, which results in said DNA not entering the pollen. This rules out the risk of cross pollination with non GM plants. I've no idea if this technique is currently being used at the moment though.

Indeed all of the concerns about gm food can be worked out.

Einhard · 12-03-2012 2:06am

Eh we've been using a genetically modified crop for thousands of years. It's called wheat.

Mickeroo · 12-03-2012 2:07am

I agree with gm food as a viable option but i disagree with patenting the seeds and having them owned by a large corporation so i voted no.

Chuck Stone · 12-03-2012 2:07am

We have people in the west dying from over eating and we waste millions of tons of food annually.

What is the need for GM foods?

blatantrereg · 12-03-2012 2:15am

steddyeddy wrote: »

Why?

Because GM foodstuffs are associated with bad practices.

Monsanto crops are genetically modified to make them resistant to the herbicide that Monsanto manufactures. This herbicide is routinely sprayed all over the crops which eleiminates all other plants growing there. There are serious concerns about the impact of the herbicide on the health of consumers as well as ecological effects. Some of the more alarming effects shown in studies include miscarriages and birth defects, interference in reproductive development of pubescents, interference with oestrogen and testosterone production, genetic damage. Direct consumption of as little as 85ml of it has caused human death.

Monsanto also use gene modifications to interfere with the ability of the crops to reproduce. They are genetically modified so that the next generation will be sterile. Farmers can't sow the seeds from their own crops in other words, but rather have to continually buy new seed from Monsanto.

The combination of these things offers a dangerous level of control to Monsanto over farms which use their products.

This is the association in my mind with GM food. Similar associations would exist for plenty of people, especially the types of consumers who would care about Ireland having a green image in the first place, when it comes to selecting produce. There are plenty of valid concerns about GM technology when it is used with benign intentions also.

44leto · 12-03-2012 2:24am

blatantrereg wrote: »

Because GM foodstuffs are associated with bad practices.

Monsanto crops are genetically modified to make them resistant to the herbicide that Monsanto manufactures. This herbicide is routinely sprayed all over the crops which eleiminates all other plants growing there. There are serious concerns about the impact of the herbicide on the health of consumers as well as ecological effects. Some of the more alarming effects shown in studies include miscarriages and birth defects, interference in reproductive development of pubescents, interference with oestrogen and testosterone production, genetic damage. Direct consumption of as little as 85ml of it has caused human death.

Monsanto also use gene modifications to interfere with the ability of the crops to reproduce. They are genetically modified so that the next generation will be sterile. Farmers can't sow the seeds from their own crops in other words, but rather have to continually buy new seed from Monsanto.

The combination of these things offers a dangerous level of control to Monsanto over farms which use their products.

This is the association in my mind with GM food. Similar associations would exist for plenty of people, especially the types of consumers who would care about Ireland having a green image in the first place, when it comes to selecting produce. There are plenty of valid concerns about GM technology when it is used with benign intentions also.

But haven't modern industrial farms always bought seed, also if farmers are not buying a Monsanto herbicide they have been using other herbicides and insecticides, these do have a negative impact on the environment as well.

But if they didn't use them, that would have a very and extreme negative impact on population, as in, a lot more would starve to death. A prospect awaiting more of us if we do not learn how to produce more food. This tech is the ONLY hope for that.

Johro · 12-03-2012 2:30am

TheBegotten wrote: »

Selective breeding is a hatchet, GM is a scalpel. Which does the job cleaner?

Wtf?

steddyeddy · 12-03-2012 2:33am

Johro wrote: »

Wtf?

Selective breeding combines thousands of new genes in order to select for a desired trait which is trial and error. Genetic modification or transgenics sometimes only adds one new gene to the crop. You can be sure the gene their adding is also fairly well understood.

brimal · 12-03-2012 2:42am

Absolutely we should accept GM food.

blatantrereg · 12-03-2012 2:45am

44leto wrote: »

But haven't modern industrial farms always bought seed, also if farmers are not buying a Monsanto herbicide they have been using other herbicides and insecticides, these do have a negative impact on the environment as well.

But if they didn't use them, that would have a very and extreme negative impact on population, as in, a lot more would starve to death. A prospect awaiting more of us if we do not learn how to produce more food. This tech is the ONLY hope for that.

Herbicide is a plant killer. You can't use too much of it around crops or you'll just kill them. Unless the crops are genetically modified. Abundant use of toxic chemicals is always bad when it comes to producing food though alright. In Ireland it is also completely unnecessary. This is naturally a very fertile country.

GM foods are certainly not the only hope for avoiding mass starvation. I dont even think they're a safe or sensible approach - certainly not with the Monsanto approach of trying to make sure nothing can grow unless it's been bought from them.

Better approaches would include encouraging vegetarianism and reducing reliance on animal foods, as well as encouraging contraceptive use and discouraging having large numbers of children.

guitarzero · 12-03-2012 2:47am

Like most sh*t that we eat, we'll only know if its good or bad in about 20 years time when RTE announce that Cow and Gate, Coke and Beechams are to take products of the market as they've found that they are a huge cause of cancer. So for now, like a proper Irish citizen should do - "Waaaay!!! Ah, sure why not!"

Should Ireland welcome gentically modified food?

Should gm foods be welcomed in Ireland? 123 votes

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