Silly trade in price at large MINI dealership

DonJose · 14-11-2007 12:44am

colm_mcm wrote: »

do you think a 06 petrol Golf is worth €23,750

Its worth a lot more than €18k, more like €20-21k.

DonJose · 14-11-2007 12:49am

Stekelly wrote: »

Would you pay that for one?

Say your happy paying the lower end of that scale, what price shoudl the dealer have taken the car for, allowing a profit (otherwise why would he be in business)

A similar model/mileage at a VW dealership is selling for €21,750, he should get at least €20k.

http://www.volkswagen.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=775575

Owen · 14-11-2007 12:53am

DonJose wrote: »

A similar model/mileage at a VW dealership is selling for €21,750, he should get at least €20k.

Against a VW? For sure. Against a MINI, no. And it's not debatable, that's how it is. There is a tiny, tiny margin in MINIs, and if you honestly knew how much profit we washed out in a deal, you'd laugh. And before you rant away DonJose, I have no motivation to lie to you. What I'm saying is the truth.

Guy:Incognito · 14-11-2007 12:55am

DonJose wrote: »

A similar model/mileage at a VW dealership is selling for €21,750, he should get at least €20k.

http://www.volkswagen.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=775575

Thats not what I asked though. Would you be happy parting with 20k of your money for that car? Plus, what should he have given for a trade in? 21k and lose 1k?

DonJose · 14-11-2007 1:03am

Stekelly wrote: »

Thats not what I asked though. Would you be happy parting with 20k of your money for that car? Plus, what should he have given for a trade in? 21k and lose 1k?

I actually own that model and I paid over €30k for it new, but I got it with a ton of extras. I've no intention of selling mine as I've experienced no problems and have done over 40,000km in under 18 months. If my car was a write off I'd gladly pay €20-21k for a similar model.

Guy:Incognito · 14-11-2007 1:10am

DonJose wrote: »

I actually own that model and I paid over €30k for it new, but I got it with a ton of extras. I've no intention of selling mine as I've experienced no problems and have done over 40,000km in under 18 months. If my car was a write off I'd gladly pay €20-21k for a similar model.

But by your reasoning the dealer should make no profit/lose money taking the car in and spending time/money cleaning,serviceing, giving warranty and paying a salesman to sell it to you?

DonJose · 14-11-2007 1:42am

Stekelly wrote: »

But by your reasoning the dealer should make no profit/lose money taking the car in and spending time/money cleaning,serviceing, giving warranty and paying a salesman to sell it to you?

Of course the dealer will make a profit, even buying the car at €20k and selling at €21.5k he'll make a least €1.5k profit. Taking the car at €18k he'll make over €3k profit.

Guy:Incognito · 14-11-2007 1:58am

DonJose wrote: »

Of course the dealer will make a profit, even buying the car at €20k and selling at €21.5k he'll make a least €1.5k profit. Taking the car at €18k he'll make over €3k profit.

Working off your price (20k-21k) that you'd be willing to pay, we'll use a sale price of 20.5k. Minus the mechanics time to sercive it, service parts (cheap but it all adds up) , paying someone to clean it, paying the salesman's commision, etc. Assuming an 18.5k trade in, all that comes off 2k. Then theres the things like rent etc. Money has to be made. All businesses work the same way more or less, so by your reckoning, all business owners are scum (how dare they make profits etc etc etc)

CarLover · 14-11-2007 10:01am

Stekelly wrote: »

so by your reckoning, all business owners are scum

Bit of a leap there no...??!!

Owen · 14-11-2007 10:06am

DonJose wrote: »

Of course the dealer will make a profit, even buying the car at €20k and selling at €21.5k he'll make a least €1.5k profit. Taking the car at €18k he'll make over €3k profit.

That's not really how the Motor Trade works DonJose

If I take in a car at 18k, and I want to sell it at 21.5k, I'll probably make about 1.5k profit, which is what's necessary to keep the lights on and wages paid. Where did the other 2k go?

On buying warranties (Not cheap), putting the car through it's various checks, any bodywork (In my business, a stone chip on the bonnet means a bonnet respray), on tyres, and then each car gets hit with mandatory charges, advertising, stocking, administrative, fuel, valeting (Our cars are cleaned once a week if not sold, doesn't take long to add up), and all of that is before the car needs brake pads/discs, or any other reconstruction.

unkel · 14-11-2007 11:58am

milltown wrote: »

Their agreement with BMW/MINI does not allow them to sell any other marques off the forecourt so they are forced to sell them into the trade at trade prices

That would explain a lot! Most people don't realise how low trade prices are and they would be disappointed / insulted when they're offered a deal, as happened to the OP

trant · 14-11-2007 12:07pm

Thanks for all the input and replies lads. I guess I am being a bit optimistic in terms of trade in value for my car, and I didn't realise margins were so tight in MINI dealerships.

I'm going to talk to my local VW dealer about trading in my car for a 07/08 next year, think I am better off sticking with VW than killing myself trying to move up to a MINI, as much as I do like them.

Owen · 14-11-2007 12:23pm

milltown wrote: »

Your cost to change will depend on the dealer for a number of reasons. If it's Frank Keane's who insulted you then definitely try other dealers. Their hands are very much tied when it comes to taking trade ins. Their agreement with BMW/MINI does not allow them to sell any other marques off the forecourt so they are forced to sell them into the trade at trade prices.

That's not quite true. It's space restrictions that force most main Dealerships to trade non-franchise stock. If they had forecourt space, they'd happily retail the non BMW/MINI stock.

cancan · 14-11-2007 3:28pm

Funny - the same car new in america sells for the equilalent 13,000 euro, and they want 36,000 euro off you for a near 2 year old one.

VRT & VAT aside (which would bring it up to 19500 euro), I'm guessing that because the mini has turned into a fashion accessory instead of a car, they can charge any old fool what they like, and they will still buy!

There is 16,500 euro unaccounted for, going from your pocket to someone elses.

There should be a special tax rate for people who will spend 36,000 on a 2 year old mini, say 98%, cos they sure don't like their own money!

Owen · 14-11-2007 3:35pm

cancan wrote: »

Funny - the same car new in america sells for the equilalent 13,000 euro, and they want 36,000 euro off you for a near 2 year old one.

Indeed. We sell the basic model here too you know. It's 22k Euro. The OP is hardly talking about the basic model. It's very easy to double the price of a MINI with optional, and specialist tuning equipment. I've sold the most expensive one in the country at 54k, so 32k for a 2 year old? Sounds about right. If I was to sell my own personal works car in the morning, I'd get about 34k for it, and she's 05. I've been offered, and refused 33k for it - as I've no intention of parting with it.

cancan wrote: »

There should be a special tax rate for people who will spend 36,000 on a 2 year old mini, say 98%, cos they sure don't like their own money!

You see, you see 32k and a MINI. I bought 2 MINIs in the last year, one for me, one for herself. And we see them as investments. You can spend 32k on a Passat, and you'd be very lucky to get any return on investment. MINIs don't really depreciate, so they're actually a clever purchase. On top of that, they're great fun to drive. Yes I'm biased, but I've put my money where my mouth is. Twice.

MercMad · 14-11-2007 4:08pm

Now ned.............your not telling me that you would give a customer those same prices ?

Investment ?

Cars ?

Not unless you bought a mint original DB5 about 4 years ago !!

Owen · 14-11-2007 4:13pm

Okay, relative investment when compared to other faster depreciating cars. And it is possible to buy vehicles manufactured within the last 10 years that have just stopped depreciating. My bike is one, a 97 Ducati 916 in pristine condition with 8k miles, worth about 4k, and will stay that way considering the condition and mileage. My MINI will also reach mid to late teens and stop depreciating.

The point is that 'cancan' thought people who spend 30k on a MINI need their heads examined. And it's easy to make that assumption without correct information.

milltown · 17-11-2007 1:02pm

ned78 wrote: »

That's not quite true. It's space restrictions that force most main Dealerships to trade non-franchise stock. If they had forecourt space, they'd happily retail the non BMW/MINI stock.

Not what I heard from an ex- Keane's salesman. He left for a more mainstream dealership because of the reasons I gave previously. Sales were very hard to win with non BMW trade ins and there was no follow on commision to be made when the trade in was sold. Where he is now he gets his commision on the sale, more when the trade in is sold, more if there's a trade in on that to be sold, and so on.

Before the trade bashers get too frantic, his comission is paid on the net profit from each sale, after workshop bills, warranty and house charges etc.

Owen · 17-11-2007 1:10pm

milltown wrote: »

Not what I heard from an ex- Keane's salesman.

There's a very good chance I know what I'm talking about.

milltown wrote: »

Sales were very hard to win with non BMW trade ins and there was no follow on commision to be made when the trade in was sold.

They're not connected schools of thought. Sales are hard to win with non-BMW trade ins, because the likes of Audi/Lexus/Mercedes are large discount brands. And the type of person coming in the door is likely to expect similar discount in a BMW franchise. It has little to do with the commission to the garage/salesperson.

milltown wrote: »

Where he is now he gets his commision on the sale, more when the trade in is sold, more if there's a trade in on that to be sold, and so on.

That's what most garages call a 'long wash out'.

L-M · 17-11-2007 4:12pm

Book value of your car is €19,512

milltown · 17-11-2007 4:16pm

ned78 wrote: »

There's a very good chance I know what I'm talking about.

LOL. I know Ned. I'm just posting what I was told, and it made sense to me because in all my BMW shopping I have never seen anything but BMWs listed for second hand sale in a main dealer.

Do you guys carry non BMW stock?

Owen · 17-11-2007 4:22pm

milltown wrote: »

Do you guys carry non BMW stock?

Most places do. Mercedes, Audi, etc.

copacetic · 17-11-2007 4:25pm

ned78 wrote: »

Sales are hard to win with non-BMW trade ins, because the likes of Audi/Lexus/Mercedes are large discount brands. And the type of person coming in the door is likely to expect similar discount in a BMW franchise. It has little to do with the commission to the garage/salesperson.

not sure I agree with that Ned, when I bought my A3, the bmw dealers were all offering ridiculously big discounts on the 1 series, much more than any of the audi dealers were on the A3.

kindalen · 17-11-2007 5:10pm

1 series:o:o:o

:D why, why would bmw do it to themselves?

L-M · 17-11-2007 5:15pm

The one series coupe is lovely lookin IMHO

maidhc · 17-11-2007 5:42pm

ned78 wrote: »

Do you honestly expect every Dealer in the country to know the name of every metallic paint from every manufacturer? To know what an SE, SXE, Sport, Chenelle, Executive, Avantgarde, Chili Pack, Works model is? To know what bhp every car is?

I would generally expect them to know more than they do! I have a good idea of the above, and I spend most of my working day drafting affidavits.

RedorDead · 17-11-2007 6:33pm

copacetic wrote: »

not sure I agree with that Ned, when I bought my A3, the bmw dealers were all offering ridiculously big discounts on the 1 series, much more than any of the audi dealers were on the A3.

I can also confirm this is true. If anything BMW are more guilty of buying market share than M-B or Audi.

I have heard of BMW offering 15k off the list price of a new 7 Series. Jan - Mar last year every 5 Series sold had 2k support.

kona · 17-11-2007 9:03pm

get a real mini!!! proper car!!! much more fun than a BINI.:D if you wana really have fun buy a mini , drop a 1.8 integra type R engine in and youve got yourself a very very fast car. and still have bout 10k left. for 34k is it only me or you dont get much for your money with a BINI, they are far from mini/small anyhow!!

Owen · 18-11-2007 1:43am

kona wrote: »

get a real mini!!! proper car!!! much more fun than a BINI.:D if you wana really have fun buy a mini , drop a 1.8 integra type R engine in and youve got yourself a very very fast car. and still have bout 10k left. for 34k is it only me or you dont get much for your money with a BINI, they are far from mini/small anyhow!!

Mother of God, I didn't think people like you still existed outside the IMOC. The BMW MINI (Not the Bini, despite what you think) is every bit as much fun as the original. Most of the people in my MINI Club have both the new, and the classic. And most of the people we've found who criticise the newer type, have never spent anything longer than 5 minutes around them. They're both excellent cars, and as much as I love the new model, I adore the classics also. But horses for courses, the new MINI for Monday to Friday, the classics for the weekend.

Unfortunately, people place the classic on a pedestal, and no one dares knock it off. Despite the classics dissolving in the rain, despite numerous electrical and mechanical issues that regularly crop up, and despite a woeful safety record. People like you also seem to conveniently forget that from 1996 onwards, all classic Minis manufactured up until 2001 were actually built by BMW. So without BMW, you wouldn't have had the Sportpack Cooper most classic enthusiasts aspire to from 1996 on.

Oh, and forget about 'dropping' a type r integra engine in - you might have 10k left, but you'll be dead in the event of an accident, and never be able to recoup the investment (One individual on carzone tried to sell one, and then gave up on the idea months later when no one bought it). I've driven a Clubman GT with an Integra engine put in by an individual. They're ropey, loose, and downright dangerous. If you want to do it properly, get a Z car built from the ground up. One of our Club members is doing just that and spending 28k on restoring an A series classic. And surprise surprise, he has 2 classics, and 2 new MINIs aswell. You see ... a real enthusiast loves all MINIs/Minis, you're just bitter about progress.

However, if you want to see what a real car is like, you're more than welcome to take a spin in my Cooper S Works. It outperforms any other Mini and MINI I've driven, and has exceptional handling. Oh, and it wasn't too expensive either. But maybe, that'll shatter you're illusion, and you don't want that.

Owen · 18-11-2007 1:47am

maidhc wrote: »

I would generally expect them to know more than they do! I have a good idea of the above, and I spend most of my working day drafting affidavits.

Of course you do, you have Google. But if I was to meet you in the street, and ask you about what exactly a new Quattroporte Masserati has as standard, you probably wouldn't be able to tell me. Extreme example? Of course. But if a Kia rolled up to my garage, I honestly wouldn't be able to tell what's optional, and what's standard without resorting to phoning a Kia garage, or going online. We're not oracles, nor do we claim to be.

It's a different thing though if someone bullsh*ts about knowing the spec. If I don't know, I'll just say I don't know, and I'll note down all the equipment in the car, standard or otherwise. 9 times out of 10, the customer respects that.

Silly trade in price at large MINI dealership

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