Ditch ownership

minterno · 05-11-2011 12:22pm #1

Hi guys,I awoke at 10am this morning to the sound of multi chainsaws buzzing in the air,the person living behind us,an old lady i think ,i have never seen her in the 12 years i have lived here,a bit of a recluse id say and she has hired a gang of tree surgons to fell all the trees,i spoke to her grandson,a young teen and he said she wanted them all felled,My self and the wife
bought the house 12 years ago and those trees were well matured then,they are about 40-60 ft high id say but thats hard to judge,I dont know if she has a right to cut them or not,they seem to be a part of the old ditch that seperates the houses,her house would have been built in the fiftes id say and that ditch would have been dividing her land with the farmland behind,that farmland is now my back garden and im wondering if she has any rights to fell the trees,the trees are in great shape and are a joy to look at,theyre the first thing i see when i get up and there was many a morning id get lost in the rhythmic movements in the wind,neddless to say i was pissed when i see what was going on so i phoned the local guard to see if he could make enquires as to who owns the ditch and find out if she has a right to cut then down or not,anyway the local guard is off duty and wont be on till this evening in which case the trees will be firewood by then and another guard at the next nearest station said there was nothing could be done as there was no crime commited and i should try a solicitor on monday,does anyone have and advice for me besides calling to the women to make enquires myself,as i said i havent laid eyes on her in 12 years so i dont think she'd appreciate callers,anyone know anything about dividing ditches as regards ownership,regards

Victor · 05-11-2011 1:13pm

Do you mean hedge, not ditch?

Typically, each land owner owns to the centre of the hedge / wall / fence or other boundary marker, but unless you check your title deeds, there is no way to be sure this applies in your case. Do you have a copy of your deeds or can you talk to your solicitor today?

No harm in talking to the neighbour. The worst she can do is say no.

minterno · 05-11-2011 1:27pm

thanks for the reply victor,I have no access to a solicitor today and its not a hedge but a ditch about 4ft high and the trees seem to be a part of the ditch,anyway its seems as if they have stopped chopping and hopefully it was only heavy scalping and that they wont be back,i spoke to a young fella who is the grandson and he said they were being taken down but he might have been wrong,fingers crossed,regards

Bullseye1 · 05-11-2011 1:34pm

Is theree any evidence of a wire fence or fence of any kind in the middle of the hedgerow? That would normally indicate boundary line.

Victor · 05-11-2011 1:39pm

I suspect they are having lunch.

minterno wrote: »

its not a hedge but a ditch

Common Irish mistake. A ditch is a tranch in the ground.

Sonnenblumen · 05-11-2011 2:26pm

Landowners presume they can cut any tree within their property. Not so. Permission is required (County Councils). OP check with your local council, but typically trees in these locations tend to be of little significance, mainly scrub and mixed hedgerows. Still that gives no one the right to cut without consultation.

Determine your boundary, if any of the planting is within boundary, the garda is wrong and your neighbour is trespassing etc

In the absence of written confirmation, I would assume boundary line co-incides with mid line of ditch.

looksee · 05-11-2011 2:44pm

I know from personal experience that if people want to cut down trees, even protected hedgerows that are specifically mentioned in their planning permission as being protected, they can.

The trick is to cut them down on a Saturday when the local planning office is closed. By Monday they will be all gone. All the Planning office will do is say 'that was very naughty, now you must plant some new trees'. Which will happen. There is nothing to force them to care for the new trees though, and if they die, well so be it. It will be at least a couple of years before anyone can do anything about it, by which time the planning office will have lost interest. The 50 to 100 years of growing cannot be replaced.

minterno · 05-11-2011 4:36pm

Victor wrote: »

I suspect they are having lunch.Common Irish mistake. A ditch is a tranch in the ground.

as i was typing ditch i realised that a ditch was not the right word but as most everyone calls them ditches and not knowing what else to call them i let it go,hedgerows or banks would have been probabley been a better description,cheers

minterno · 05-11-2011 4:44pm

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Landowners presume they can cut any tree within their property. Not so. Permission is required (County Councils). OP check with your local council, but typically trees in these locations tend to be of little significance, mainly scrub and mixed hedgerows. Still that gives no one the right to cut without consultation.

Determine your boundary, if any of the planting is within boundary, the garda is wrong and your neighbour is trespassing etc

In the absence of written confirmation, I would assume boundary line co-incides with mid line of ditch.

cheers for that,the chainsaws left after about 2 hours or so and the large branches on there side have been removed and it all looks very bare now,I will dave to look into the boundries so as to have the info in hand in case it happens again,the hedgerow is really a big bank of earth topped with trees every 15 to 20 feet and for all i know she might indeed own it but i will make enquires monday when the council are back at work,regards

minterno · 05-11-2011 4:46pm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Is theree any evidence of a wire fence or fence of any kind in the middle of the hedgerow? That would normally indicate boundary line.

no theres no fence or wire,cheers

minterno · 05-11-2011 4:50pm

looksee wrote: »

I know from personal experience that if people want to cut down trees, even protected hedgerows that are specifically mentioned in their planning permission as being protected, they can.

The trick is to cut them down on a Saturday when the local planning office is closed. By Monday they will be all gone. All the Planning office will do is say 'that was very naughty, now you must plant some new trees'. Which will happen. There is nothing to force them to care for the new trees though, and if they die, well so be it. It will be at least a couple of years before anyone can do anything about it, by which time the planning office will have lost interest. The 50 to 100 years of growing cannot be replaced.

thats what the wife said to me this morning,that saturday is the day that some people use so that they cant be stopped by the council,cheers

Sonnenblumen · 05-11-2011 5:11pm

looksee wrote: »

I know from personal experience that if people want to cut down trees, even protected hedgerows that are specifically mentioned in their planning permission as being protected, they can.

Breaching planning conditions is a serious matter and any cases should be reported.

If people were more civic minded and vigilent, there would be a great deal more compliance.

No point moaning about spilled milk afterwards.

looksee · 05-11-2011 9:54pm

I did report it, and followed up on it, and eventually after some nagging a person came to investigate the situation and a letter was sent to the remaining houses telling them the hedgerow was protected. By this stage the 30ft high hedgerow was reduced to about one and a half garden widths.

In the time since I started complaining until something was done there were several 'Saturday morning raids' and the only result was that householders were told to 'make good' the hedge. Ha! replant 30ft hawthorn, blackthorn, elder etc. A few young trees were put in, but the area is now a mass of brambles and nettles, I have no idea whether the trees have survived.

slowburner · 06-11-2011 1:04pm

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Landowners presume they can cut any tree within their property. Not so. Permission is required (County Councils). OP check with your local council, but typically trees in these locations tend to be of little significance, mainly scrub and mixed hedgerows. Still that gives no one the right to cut without consultation.

Determine your boundary, if any of the planting is within boundary, the garda is wrong and your neighbour is trespassing etc

In the absence of written confirmation, I would assume boundary line co-incides with mid line of ditch.

Not true.
See here http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/treefelling/legalrequirementsfortreefelling/
Note point c)

Sonnenblumen · 06-11-2011 1:49pm

slowburner wrote: »

Not true.
See here http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/treefelling/legalrequirementsfortreefelling/
Note point c)

Not true?

Check the specifics again, eg (a).

swifts need our help! · 06-11-2011 1:57pm

lots of photos would help describe the situation.

In Northern Ireland a ditch is below ground level. Is your boundary a soil bank?

You need to get the remaining trees Tree Preservation Orders (TPO)

No mention of what type of trees these are!

You can plant a new line of trees. I would go for the white stemmed Betula, birch, Jacquemontii or various forms of Sorbus/Rowan/mountain ash.

Mark

slowburner · 06-11-2011 10:03pm

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Not true?

Check the specifics again, eg (a).

The requirement for a felling licence for the uprooting or cutting down of trees does not apply where:
a) The tree in question is a hazel, apple, plum, damson, pear, or cherry tree grown for the value of its fruit or any ozier;
b) The tree in question is less than 100 feet from a dwelling other than a wall or temporary structure;
c) The tree in question is standing in a County or other Borough or an urban district (that is, within the boundaries of a town council, or city council area).

Could it be any clearer?

Ditch ownership

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