Time for women to engage with Freemasonry?

Eadbhard · 03-06-2013 4:59pm

I always find the term "irregular" a funny one. How can somebody declare somebody "irregular" and who made the rules for it.

Who is qualified to be "regular" then?

isn't it a bit of an inhuman view of other fellow creatures, if that is masonry than good night....

Absolam · 03-06-2013 11:35pm

I've always thought it was pleasantly quaint myself. In Freemasonry a Mason is taught that he should endeavour to make his work regular, with straight lines, correct angles, and in accordance with the plan of the architect. The metaphor is extended to organisations that copy Freemasonry; if they conform to the fundamental principles and landmarks of Freemasonry then they are considered regular by Freemasons, if they do not they are considered irregular.

So Freemasonry decides which organisations are Masonically regular or not.

I don't think it's particularly inhuman.... It's more an organisational description really, not an appellation for individuals.

Eadbhard · 04-06-2013 1:23am

Freemasonry decides....who is Freemasonry? Are they hiding behind a special term?
Tell us names ...

Absolam · 04-06-2013 2:49am

Assuming you don't want a list of all of the millions of Freemasons worldwide who can have a say on the subject?

To break it down each Grand Lodge jurisdiction chooses who it recognises as regular. In practice, the three original Grand Lodges (England, Ireland and Scotland) tend to be regarded as authoritative in most areas, although, of course, they would never tell another Grand Lodge what to do. So, for instance, some North American Grand Lodges who are themselves recognised as being regular, might recognise organisations as regular, but those organisations are not recognised as regular by other Grand Lodges in North America, or around the world, making them irregular to the majority of Freemasonry.

T runner · 28-06-2013 4:09pm

Absolam wrote: »

To be fair, the Grand Lodge of Ireland only makes it clear that women are not male enough to be initiated, and offers no judgement whatsoever on equality...
.

Rejecting a persons membership of an organisation based on no other reason than their gender (with no mitigating explanation as to why their gender is relevant) is a judgement on gender equality.

It is like saying the KKK having a "not white enough" rule offers no judgement on racial equality.

Sooner or later your organisation will lose its grasp on its ability to protect itself. This country, among others, will be a far better place when that infestation is driven from their secret holes.

Absolam · 29-06-2013 6:33am

Actually, it's a judgement based on gender, not a judgement on gender equality. Whether the gender is equal doesn't come into it, just what the gender is.

I'm not sure what you think the Freemasons are protecting ourselves from (or what grasp you think is required to do so), but we hardly infest secret holes; we're pretty open about our meeting places as a quick google will show you.

On a separate note, since the thread is revived, it would be nice to hear from EithneO'Neill how her initiation went. I'm hoping she had a great experience.

The Corinthian · 29-06-2013 9:42am

T runner wrote: »

Rejecting a persons membership of an organisation based on no other reason than their gender (with no mitigating explanation as to why their gender is relevant) is a judgement on gender equality.

So when Ivana Bacik hosted a women-only meeting in the Oireachtas to discuss the abolition of custodial sentences for women, you would be equally critical such such gender segregation as employed by her?

clairefontaine · 30-06-2013 12:38am

The Corinthian wrote: »

So when Ivana Bacik hosted a women-only meeting in the Oireachtas to discuss the abolition of custodial sentences for women, you would be equally critical such such gender segregation as employed by her?

Government is different from private clubs. In government secret meetings and lack of transparency is tyranny. Different ball game.

The Corinthian · 30-06-2013 9:46am

clairefontaine wrote: »

Government is different from private clubs. In government secret meetings and lack of transparency is tyranny. Different ball game.

Firstly, it's not actually government - it was a private meeting organized by a politician.

Secondly, even if it were government sanctioned sexual discrimination, it doesn't stop T runner from holding an opinion on it, which is what I asked.

Presuming we ever get a response from T runner.

eithneoneill · 15-01-2014 5:05pm

eithneoneill wrote: »

3 weeks before my initiation.
Very exciting!

I did join the Droit Humain, but now I have resigned because the news broke:

A man who had more than 50 images of child pornography on his computer at his Dublin home has been spared a jail term.

Instead of being punished by the Lodge, he has been promoted, and that I am not happy with. And we were kept in the dark. Worst than the Catholic Church!

I do not blame the Order, but the miscreants that lied to us and to the Order.

The Corinthian · 15-01-2014 6:32pm

Maybe a blog would be a more suitable medium for your adventures with the Illuminati. This is a discussion forum.

Chazz Michael Michaels · 15-01-2014 6:35pm

Get caught hiding behind a curtain at a ceremony. Sorted.

Magdala · 15-01-2014 7:54pm

clairefontaine wrote: »

I had a summer job with the Freemasons once.

It is very creepy where all the bosses are men and all the secretaries have to address them as master.

I dont think you can be a woman and a freemason.

Good evening,
This matter has already been discussed on the forum, but I will add my comment. It is of course possible to be a woman and a freemason.
I am a woman and a freemason... but in France. I was initiated seven years ago. Here we have the choice to join various orders. It can either be a mixed order like the Droit Humain or more recently the Grand Orient that now accepts women. But also the Grande Loge Mixte de France, and various other mixed orders. There are also feminine orders like the Grande Loge Féminine de France. And there are several other mixed orders that are less known like the egyptian orders (rite of Memphis-Misraim) for people who are involved in a non dogmatic spiritual path.
I am presently thinking about creating a company in Ireland. But the presence of mixed orders is a decisive issue for me because I would not move to a country that would force me to give up my commitment in Freemasonry.

eithneoneill · 16-01-2014 11:05pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Maybe a blog would be a more suitable medium for your adventures with the Illuminati. This is a discussion forum.

This has nothing to do with the Illuminati, and this thread is very relevent as to what orders best suit us women.
I still think the Droit Humain can be salvaged, but not before the rot is taken out of that Triangle. That is how women can engage in Freemasonry.

The Corinthian · 17-01-2014 12:38am

eithneoneill wrote: »

This has nothing to do with the Illuminati, and this thread is very relevent as to what orders best suit us women.
I still think the Droit Humain can be salvaged, but not before the rot is taken out of that Triangle. That is how women can engage in Freemasonry.

Then take it to the Ladies Lounge; this forum is for the discussion of Humanities topics, not women's issues, let alone the internal politics of some Irish masonic or crypto-masonic group, billed as a women's issue or corruption or whatever.

DM addict · 17-01-2014 9:56am

I suppose my question is for any masons out there, male or female- why would women *want*to engage in freemasonry?

I'm not trying to be pejorative, but it's always struck me as something that's increasingly irrelevant

The Corinthian · 17-01-2014 10:35am

DM addict wrote: »

I suppose my question is for any masons out there, male or female- why would women *want*to engage in freemasonry?

I'm not trying to be pejorative, but it's always struck me as something that's increasingly irrelevant

You've probably asked the only relevant question in this entire thread.

I suspect some because it's a family tradition. Some for the contacts, although it's questionable how much use these are. Some so they can say they are. Some because it's a social club. In the case of the OP, because she considers it a women's issue (if she was living somewhere like France, like Magdala, it's unlikely she'd bother) - like Groucho Marx, she wouldn't want to be a member of any club who would accept her.

I'm not a mason myself, but was asked by one if I'd be interested in becoming one, years ago. I never followed up on this query (I wouldn't go so far as to call it an invitation) because I too would question it's relevance.

Freemasonry is a product of when the ideals of the enlightenment were radical and new - anti-clerical, deist and so on - except many of these have become moot or otherwise irrelevant; the influence of the Roman Catholic Church is largely marginalized in the West and while Newtonian physics demanded a Supreme Being, Quantum physics, that superseded it, does not.

So my guess, is that there are many reasons why someone may be a mason today, none of which are related to why they may have been a mason three hundred years ago.

17-01-2014 11:13am

Mod

eithneoneill, you seem to have an axe to grind with a particular lodge. Firstly, this forum isn't your personal soap box; secondly, you're making some rather serious allegations against this organisation and one of its members, which, without evidence, is expressly forbidden. I'll leave this topic open to see if it might diverge away from the course in which you want to steer it. If you've any questions about what I've said then don't reply on thread, but do spend me a PM. Thank you.

eithneoneill · 19-01-2014 1:34pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Then take it to the Ladies Lounge; this forum is for the discussion of Humanities topics, not women's issues, let alone the internal politics of some Irish masonic or crypto-masonic group, billed as a women's issue or corruption or whatever.

This thread is for the discussion of women in Freemasonry, which is a humanist organization. And your remarks is very condescending and misogynist, in case you did not do it on purpose...

GVN,
got it. Thanks.

The Corinthian · 20-01-2014 3:54pm

eithneoneill wrote: »

This thread is for the discussion of women in Freemasonry, which is a humanist organization.

Indeed, not a platform for you to run your one-woman campaign to personally join a masonic lodge (which you then appear to have fallen out with), and to date, that appears to be all you've treated this discussion as.

And your remarks is very condescending and misogynist, in case you did not do it on purpose...

Explain how my remarks are 'misogynist'.

katydid · 19-04-2014 1:04am

eithneoneill wrote: »

I have learnt a lot in the past few days about Freemasonry, and now I want to join them.
But I wonder how other women, or gay men, feel about it?
Of course I do not even consider the Grand Lodge, as they make clear that women are not equal enough to be initiated.

But I am wondering which of the other two Irish Freemason Orders are best for women?
The Grand Orient who has already initiated women? (www.gmoirl.com)
Or the Droit Humain about whom I can find nearly no information about, but who are known for welcoming women and minorities in other countries?

Is there a point in joining these humanist Freemason Orders? (Which the Grand Lodge looks down at and consider as not masonic just because they do not recognize them... )

Why on earth would you want to join a mysogynistic organisation?

Absolam · 19-04-2014 3:42am

katydid wrote: »

Why on earth would you want to join a mysogynistic organisation?

At the time of Eithnes original post both Droit Humain and the Grand Orient were on membership drives and actively promoting their mixed gender membership and non-theistic rules in contrast to regular Freemasonrys men only and belief in a higher power rules. I suspect the OP was motivated by this at the time. Eithne didn't want to join a mysogynistic organisation, she wanted to point out that regular Freemasonry in her opinion was mysogynistic compared to Droit Humain and Grand Orient, and therefore destined to disappear in the near future etc etc..

katydid · 19-04-2014 12:12pm

Absolam wrote: »

At the time of Eithnes original post both Droit Humain and the Grand Orient were on membership drives and actively promoting their mixed gender membership and non-theistic rules in contrast to regular Freemasonrys men only and belief in a higher power rules. I suspect the OP was motivated by this at the time. Eithne didn't want to join a mysogynistic organisation, she wanted to point out that regular Freemasonry in her opinion was mysogynistic compared to Droit Humain and Grand Orient, and therefore destined to disappear in the near future etc etc..

So she wanted to join a DIFFERENT organisation..:)

Absolam · 16-03-2015 12:35am

eithneoneill wrote: »

Another FREEMASONRY, yes.
DH has resolved their pedo scandal now so I feel free to re-apply and re-join: last time I was stopped in my track because instead of brushing it under the carpet, they tackled the issue head-on at a great cost to themselves!

You're saying they should have brushed it under the carpet rather than tackle it head on?

qt3.14 · 16-03-2015 12:40am

Absolam wrote: »

You're saying they should have brushed it under the carpet rather than tackle it head on?

No, from the looks of things, she was planning to leave the lodge because it looked like they were trying to brush things under the carpet. Turns out they didn't, so now she's comfortable with the group again

BeatNikDub · 20-04-2015 12:42pm

Excellent and interesting posts Eithne O'Neill.
I wish you well in pursuing the path of freemasonary and equality!

eithneoneill · 21-06-2015 1:32pm

qt3.14 wrote: »

No, from the looks of things, she was planning to leave the lodge because it looked like they were trying to brush things under the carpet. Turns out they didn't, so now she's comfortable with the group again

Indeed.
I am happy they expelled the ones trying to brush it under the checkered carpet, but the price was that it stopped the process of joining, as I had been in contact originally with the sickos.
It took a while to clear the mess, before I could start completing the process.

I am happy they did not brush it under the carpet, even if it has cost me!

Time for women to engage with Freemasonry?

Comments