Masters Championships 2015

GMCI · 31-10-2014 12:59pm #1

From: www.cyclingireland.ie

Age Related Masters Racing

Following the decision taken at last years Congress to introduce Masters age related categories in the National Veterans RR and TT and also Hill Climb, the Board set up a representative group to consider the implementation of this. The group consulted with the Track, BMX, Off Road and Women’s Commissions in order to see how such a proposal i.e. age related championships would impact in their disciplines. Some of them already work in age related categories. As the result, from 2015 CI will recognise the following bands for the Road, TT, Track and Hill Climb Championships.

M30 Male riders in the 30 to 39 age group (Within CI applies to BMX and MTB only)

M40 Male riders in the 40 to 49 age group

M50 Male riders in the 50 to 59 age group

M60 Male riders 60 and over.

MW Women riders 40 and over.

The following should be noted.

Age in respect of category is found by subtracting the year of birth from the current year.

The holding of the M50 and M60 Championships will be subject to a minimum of 6 entrants.

The other Championships will be subject to a minimum of 12 entrants.

There will be no amalgamation of age bands, if the championship does not attract the minimum number of entrants it will be cancelled.

The MW and Junior Women Road Championships will be run as a combined event with two sets of medals awarded in line with the current Technical Regulations in respect of the number of entrants.

These age related categories are optional categories and must be specifically requested on a rider’s initial annual licence application. Otherwise a rider of 40 or over will be issued with a Senior licence.

A rider of 40 or over requesting the appropriate age related licence will not be able to revert back to Senior.

A rider of 40 or over wishing to ride the International Track Meeting, National Senior Track Championships, Ras or the National Senior RR / TT Championship must have UCI Category “Elite” on their licence. Similarly a rider of 40 or over wishing to ride the appropriate age related National Masters Championships must have CI Category “Master” (MW, M40, M50 or M60) on their licence.

Hence a rider wishing to ride any UCI event must have the appropriate UCI category shown on their licence and this category will not be relevant to domestic events in which they must have the appropriate CI category e.g. a rider of 40 or over wishing to ride the Ras and the Masters Championship would require UCI Category “Elite” and CI Category “Master”. Or in the track context a rider wishing to ride the International Track Meeting and the CI Masters Championships would require UCI Category “Elite” and CI Category “Master”.

Masters will still be allocated A1, A2 etc. as appropriate depending on the points acquired however the following exceptions will apply,
M40s on reaching 46 and M50 riders may apply for an A2 or an A3 licence with zero points in their initial annual licence application. M60s riders may apply for an A2, A3 or A4 licence with zero points in their initial annual licence application.
However there are conditions relating to upgrading of these licences as detailed in the Technical Regulations.

It is intended to have the Master’s Championships available for promotion as a bundle without a fixed circulation around the 4 Provinces but a promoter will have to take the M40, M50, .M60 and MW Road Race Championships or TT Championships or may in fact take all 8 events as a bundle.

Distances for the RR Championships for male Masters will be nominally 120, 90 & 80 km and for the MW / Junior 80km. In respect of the TTs, distances will be 40km for all male Masters and 20 km for MWs.

The Board will be reviewing the issue of National Championship jerseys during 2015.

Beasty · 31-10-2014 1:24pm

\o/!! - they are going to let me race along the M50 (hope they close it first mind) ....:pac:

Eamonnator · 31-10-2014 1:28pm

Beasty wrote: »

\o/!! - they are going to let me race along the M50 (hope they close it first mind) ....:pac:

I'm feeling deprived here. There's no M60 motorway.

The Crunch · 31-10-2014 1:54pm

Super news. Well thought out and a great development.
I would question the idea that MWs will only be allowed do a 20km time trial. I'm sure they'll be well able to do 40km. I've never understood the need to reduce race lengths for women.
But that's just one small criticism.
It's a great initiative and one that properly reflects the age profile of Irish bike racers.
Fair play to all involved in the process. Now, who's going to promote it?

Beasty · 31-10-2014 2:07pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

I'm feeling deprived here. There's no M60 motorway.

There is and it's a lot longer than the M50 - you can circulate Greater Manchester until your heart's content ....

Beasty · 31-10-2014 2:11pm

The Crunch wrote: »

I would question the idea that MWs will only be allowed do a 20km time trial. I'm sure they'll be well able to do 40km. I've never understood the need to reduce race lengths for women.

I'm guessing in the short term there may be a concern over numbers and a lot more women may be prepared to commit to 20km than 40km. Let's face it a 10m TT almost feels like a walk in the park compared to a 25m one (to me anyway!!). Hopefully though over time numbers will pick up and they can move to consistency between mens and womens distances

couerdelion · 31-10-2014 2:54pm

For the normal middle of the pack A4 rider what does this mean?

Apply for M40 on my application just in case I discover some form down the back of my sofa but If I do that I can still continue in A4?
It just means it will say M40 rather than senior on my licence - yes?

The Crunch · 31-10-2014 3:03pm

Beasty wrote: »

I'm guessing in the short term there may be a concern over numbers and a lot more women may be prepared to commit to 20km than 40km. Let's face it a 10m TT almost feels like a walk in the park compared to a 25m one (to me anyway!!). Hopefully though over time numbers will pick up and they can move to consistency between mens and womens distances

Ah, you may well be right and I get the logic.
But will it go up as numbers develop? There's a weird habit in cycling administration of reducing distances for women. I've never understood it. Fairly sure Beryl Burton didn't either.
Anyway, that's a brief aside. It's a great development.
And good to see they seem to have dealt with vets riding internationals licensing issue if I'm reading it right.
@GMCI. Who headed it up? We're you involved?

Eamonnator · 31-10-2014 3:21pm

Will there be Championship Jerseys for the winners?

QueensGael · 31-10-2014 3:23pm

Beasty wrote: »

I'm guessing in the short term there may be a concern over numbers and a lot more women may be prepared to commit to 20km than 40km. Let's face it a 10m TT almost feels like a walk in the park compared to a 25m one (to me anyway!!). Hopefully though over time numbers will pick up and they can move to consistency between mens and womens distances

Yep, it was indeed about numbers, although the WC wasn't as concerned as much about the distance of the TT, but more about having only one masters (i.e. over 40) category for women (i.e. we don't think we'd have the numbers for >50 for example). There aren't huge numbers doing the TT Nat Champs, but we'd love to grow it more and so hopefully this will help. The 20km is also probably more appealing than 40km if you don't have a TT bike or bars.

morana · 31-10-2014 4:05pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

Will there be Championship Jerseys for the winners?

I dont think so Eamonn. This all arose from Tom Daly submitting a motion last year at the agm. A lot of the credit should go to Tom.

Eamonnator · 31-10-2014 4:20pm

morana wrote: »

I dont think so Eamonn. This all arose from Tom Daly submitting a motion last year at the agm. A lot of the credit should go to Tom.

Fair play to him.

Beasty · 31-10-2014 4:25pm

The Crunch wrote: »

Now, who's going to promote it?

morana wrote: »

This all arose from Tom Daly submitting a motion last year at the agm. A lot of the credit should go to Tom.

Eamonnator wrote: »

Fair play to him.

Kanturk it is then :pac:

morana · 31-10-2014 4:28pm

Beasty wrote: »

Kanturk it is then :pac:

i think it will be offered to the national champs promoters iirc

wav1 · 31-10-2014 5:23pm

morana wrote: »

i think it will be offered to the national champs promoters iirc

Anto you'd look horrid well in a shamrock jersey outside the creamery in Kanturk

morana · 31-10-2014 5:25pm

wav1 wrote: »

Anto you'd look horrid well in a shamrock jersey outside the creamery in Kanturk

didnt you see my twitter picture?????

wav1 · 31-10-2014 5:32pm

The Crunch wrote: »

Super news. Well thought out and a great development.
I would question the idea that MWs will only be allowed do a 20km time trial. I'm sure they'll be well able to do 40km. I've never understood the need to reduce race lengths for women.
But that's just one small criticism.
It's a great initiative and one that properly reflects the age profile of Irish bike racers.
Fair play to all involved in the process. Now, who's going to promote it?

I assume it will be promoted as part of the elite w/end as per always but could be wrong.I hope it is,because there aint no queue out the door to promote these things.
Nat Vets/Jun TT Champs and Nat Jun/A3 R/R Champs are due to be held in Leinster in 2015 under the 4 province cycle but still no takers

GMCI · 31-10-2014 7:16pm

The Crunch wrote: »

@GMCI. Who headed it up? We're you involved?

Yes, a working group was set up with the majority of the work being done by the past president. It's been a long road as we strive to get it right first time. Not easy when encompassing the different disciplines.

Bear in mind this is currently for championships only to see how it goes. It does replace the vets championships but I'm not sure how much dialogue has taken place with the 2015 organisers of the main championships as it effectively replaces one vets championships on a circuit with 4 masters championships on a circuit. Not an easy task by any means.

In relation to national champions jersey's, I am not 100% as to whether a jersey will be awarded to the winner of each championship. There are various rulings that will have to be checked and confirmed, but effectively this drives the jersey costing a for CI through the rough for the new categories for each discipline. There is no requirement for a champions Jersey in these championships, while it is nice for the winner, they are only mandatory for the Championships that results in the winner competing on the international circuits, IE road, TT for Elite men, Espoir, Women, Junior. Also the situation of having multiple champions jersey's in the same peloton would devalue the jersey's worth.

So while we have come along way, there will most likely have tweaks and issues to be addressed as we go along. CI are currently testing the membership registration system to ensure the relative options are available. So hopefully things go smoothly when registration opens.

NCW13 · 01-11-2014 10:48pm

Two day Master's Stage Race in the calendar on April 11th / 12th next year. Race will be based in Newcastle West. Three stages over two days. Separate Ladies Stage run over the same dates. More details later.

Eamonnator · 02-11-2014 12:41am

NCW13 wrote: »

Two day Master's Stage Race in the calendar on April 11th / 12th next year. Race will be based in Newcastle West. Three stages over two days. Separate Ladies Stage run over the same dates. More details later.

Will there be a separate race for each Masters' category?

NCW13 · 02-11-2014 1:54am

There will be a 40-49 category, 50 - 59 category and 60 plus. More details later.

Eamonnator · 02-11-2014 9:33am

Sorry for labouring the point, but is it intended, that all the masters categories start together, and then at the end of the race, pick out 1st M50, 1st M60, etc, or will there be completely separate races for each category?

RobFowl · 02-11-2014 9:39am

Eamonnator wrote: »

Sorry for labouring the point, but is it intended, that all the masters categories start together, and then at the end of the race, pick out 1st M50, 1st M60, etc, or will there be completely separate races for each category?

I think that depends on the numbers and the organiser. As it stands could be one race with seperate cats or else a number of stand alone races.

Beasty · 02-11-2014 9:43am

If you take the Masters cat used in Ulster (50+ A4s) the numbers often would not warrant a separate race so they get combined with the women's race. I suspect that will be the case with both 60+ and 50+ cats in many cases and can certainly see those being combined. If you add in the over 40s though that brings in potentially a large number of very fast riders which may defeat the object for the older cats

NCW13 · 02-11-2014 10:36am

Eamonnator wrote: »

Sorry for labouring the point, but is it intended, that all the masters categories start together, and then at the end of the race, pick out 1st M50, 1st M60, etc, or will there be completely separate races for each category?

One race with separate categories as a starting point. If the numbers were sufficient we could look at adding races in future years. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. A good solid turn out in year one, get some rider feedback and move it from there. The most important consideration is to vary the stages and to provide some thing for everyone. Flat Stage, TT and a hilly stage. Safe and quiet roads with a good atmosphere. We'll take that as the starting point.(I've raced Master's events abroad and one noteworthy point is that on hilly circuits the over 60's are usually given enough of a handicap to get get them over the first hill ahead of the main group. This is something we'll consider for the final stage, depending on numbers etc..)

I note lots of interest on here, which is great. Hopefully more organisers will start to appear.

killalanerr · 02-11-2014 12:59pm

So what's on offer here a one off ic masters race that may or may not be run . It's hardly a quantum leap forward for masters racing .

what I would like to see is a masters only races run regularly but I don't believe the numbers are there outside Dublin to run a stand alone masters meeting. But please prove me wrong

Beasty · 02-11-2014 1:12pm

killalanerr wrote: »

what I would like to see is a masters only races run regularly but I don't believe the numbers are there outside Dublin to run a stand alone masters meeting. But please prove me wrong

Well they clearly have adequate support in the 50+ A4s alone in Ulster

Obviously there is going to be some crossover/competition with the IVCA in the Dublin area, but that organisation alone shows there is plenty of interest in Leinster. Perhaps this initiative will get the IVCA to properly engage with CI and maybe over time the options for Masters/vets across the island will improve on the back of this

killalanerr · 02-11-2014 1:24pm

Indeedote="Beasty;92864742"]. Perhaps this initiative will get the IVCA to properly engage with CI and maybe over time the options for Masters/vets across the island will improve on the back of this[/quote]

Indeed that would be would be the ideal outcome
On a side note will cu have to drop the a4 requirement with the introduction of the m50/m60 category's .

Beasty · 02-11-2014 1:45pm

killalanerr wrote: »

On a side note will cu have to drop the a4 requirement with the introduction of the m50/m60 category's .

That is a specific CI category that remains in place. Ultimately it's down to what the promoters want to put on based on interest shown. That category has only really taken off in Ulster and I suspect they will try and keep it perhaps allowing 50+ A3s and above to race against the 40+ guys (who will include A4s) in separate Masters races

NCW13 · 02-11-2014 3:08pm

killalanerr wrote: »

So what's on offer here a one off ic masters race that may or may not be run . It's hardly a quantum leap forward for masters racing .

what I would like to see is a masters only races run regularly but I don't believe the numbers are there outside Dublin to run a stand alone masters meeting. But please prove me wrong

"May or may not be run?" Fabulous comment. Race is in the calendar. Every race we have ever put in calendar has been run. Could you be more negative? If you are worried about lack of Master's racing. Why not run one yourself? You'll find, if you run events, people turn up!

I always find that the people who make the most noise about events, contribute the least. I was encouraged to put a note on boards to highlight the race. I protested that all I would get is negative comments from well...........how do I put this.............."hurlers on the ditch?" Man was I right. Signing on from this thread now. Have fun slating the event before it even takes off!

RobFowl · 02-11-2014 3:14pm

NCW13 wrote: »

"May or may not be run?" Fabulous comment. Race is in the calendar. Every race we have ever put in calendar has been run. Could you be more negative? If you are worried about lack of Master's racing. Why not run one yourself? You'll find, if you run events, people turn up!

I always find that the people who make the most noise about events, contribute the least. I was encouraged to put a note on boards to highlight the race. I protested that all I would get is negative comments from well...........how do I put this.............."hurlers on the ditch?" Man was I right. Signing on from this thread now. Have fun slating the event before it even takes off!

killaneer is one who cannot be faulted for their contribution to many many cycling events over a long period of time

Beasty · 02-11-2014 3:48pm

And I would add this is a discussion site. Differing views are welcome as they contribute to the debate. However in this case we are talking about one minor negative point in about a page of coverage which includes many more positive comments. I would have thought the discussion being generated is actually very positive for the event and a some potential entrants have already contributed to that discussion

killalanerr · 02-11-2014 8:52pm

NCW13 wrote: »

"May or may not be run?" Fabulous comment. Race is in the calendar. Every race we have ever put in calendar has been run. Could you be more negative? If you are worried about lack of Master's racing. Why not run one yourself? You'll find, if you run events, people turn up!

I always find that the people who make the most noise about events, contribute the least. I was encouraged to put a note on boards to highlight the race. I protested that all I would get is negative comments from well...........how do I put this.............."hurlers on the ditch?" Man was I right. Signing on from this thread now. Have fun slating the event before it even takes off!

Good man NCW13 talk about getting your lines crossed,I was commenting on this IC (irish champions) masters categories http://www.cyclingireland.ie/cycling-news-item/cycling-ireland-masters-categories/423 and not your race
Your hurlers on the ditch comment was i bit unfortunate considering the many hours i have spend and indeed will spend in the further in support of cycle sport ,i do me bit.
Your race looks like an exciting addition and i wish you all the best with it ,i might even ride it if you will let me now.
Maybe stick with the board for another while its a good old talk shop with lots of interesting and differing views,some of which you may not agree with

Hi Ho · 02-11-2014 9:28pm

Most of us appreciate the efforts of all race promoters. NCW13 is an experienced promoter and has to be commended for taking this initiative. He has always been creative in trying to give older riders a break at his events. Of course he can't say what categories will have separate races etc - it's the first time such an event will be run in Ireland I believe and he has to judge support etc. Running races costs money and promoters can't take too many chances. Just let him at it I say.

Eamonnator · 02-11-2014 9:34pm

I got quite excited, when I saw this.
But, at 63, I really have little interest mixing it with young lads of 40 or 50 years of age.And, I really don't relish the thought of getting over the climbs, before being caught and, probably dropped by them.
However, if it gets to the stage, where there are separate races for over 60s, keep me posted.

killalanerr · 02-11-2014 9:52pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

I got quite excited, when I saw this.
But, at 63, I really have little interest mixing it with young lads of 40 or 50 years of age.And, I really don't relish the thought of getting over the climbs, before being caught and, probably dropped by them.
However, if it gets to the stage, where there are separate races for over 60s, keep me posted.

From what i can remember Eamon we had quite a job catching you in the Mark Mullen races this year you might surprise yourself

At least its on the books now so to speak,what we need now is for a promoter to run with it.Maybe have a word with wav or some of the other active clubs or even an amalgamation of clubs
Masters only event 3 races m40,m50, m60 and ladies,

lennymc · 02-11-2014 9:55pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

I got quite excited, when I saw this.
But, at 63, I really have little interest mixing it with young lads of 40 or 50 years of age.And, I really don't relish the thought of getting over the climbs, before being caught and, probably dropped by them.
However, if it gets to the stage, where there are separate races for over 60s, keep me posted.

says yer man who podiumed on the donore circuit in the league...

Hi Ho · 02-11-2014 9:58pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

I got quite excited, when I saw this.
But, at 63, I really have little interest mixing it with young lads of 40 or 50 years of age.And, I really don't relish the thought of getting over the climbs, before being caught and, probably dropped by them.
However, if it gets to the stage, where there are separate races for over 60s, keep me posted.

I'm in the same camp. But how can he put on a separate race if we don't sign up! Even then he's doing his best - the first two stages should be ok and you still will have yet over 60 GC to compete for. And if there are enough of us you shouldn't be coming home alone. The Masters thing won't take off for the older categories if we don't support events.

Beasty · 02-11-2014 10:14pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

However, if it gets to the stage, where there are separate races for over 60s, keep me posted.

There are probably around 30 guys over 60 who regularly race with the IVCA and they are pretty much all based in Leinster. If we can get some proper co-operation and co-ordination with the IVCA hopefully (and I realise it's a big hope with the current IVCA setup!) there will be sufficient interest to support separate 60+ and 50+ races

Eamonnator · 02-11-2014 10:16pm

lennymc wrote: »

says yer man who podiumed on the donore circuit in the league...

Not quite.

GMCI · 02-11-2014 10:32pm

The proposal that was submitted and approved in 2013 and since developed on to what you see in the original thread is for NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS for these categories in the listed various disciplines. It does not spread beyond this yet as the support for the national championships will determine how much further masters racing stretches. CI have certainly not gotten ahead of themselves with this one.
Effectively when reading the document, masters categories is for championships only in 2015. The championships will not be combined if the minimum numbers are not met. CI have done their bit based in the motion. The eligible members will now have to support it to ensure it carries on and further.

The listed stage race would have been applied for at this stage. It may have been approved at regional level at the moment, but there may be refusal at cycling Ireland stage due to the categories being promoted for, falling outside the remit of the proposal that was agreed.
That isn't set in stone, just in typical fashion with boards, an opinion.

morana · 03-11-2014 10:53am

As I recall from the working group The National Champs would take place on the traditional June Weekend, Provincial Championships would be encouraged to cater for the new cats, League races could be run for these Masters categorys. A jersey would be awarded but coulds only be worn in races for the champs cat. Now the board may have amended some of these but these were the initial proposals to the board.

Beasty · 03-11-2014 11:28am

The championships don't bother me

. However if they can turn this into something that offers regular "masters" races that would be great. Maybe not something where there has to be racing every weekend as it may be difficult to fit them around current race weekends without moving to consecutive rather than concurrent races (although this does already happen in Ulster). I understand there is a way to go given some of the comments made by GMCI, but maybe over time a regular masters racing series can evolve.

morana · 03-11-2014 12:26pm

Beasty wrote: »

The championships don't bother me . However if they can turn this into something that offers regular "masters" races that would be great. Maybe not something where there has to be racing every weekend as it may be difficult to fit them around current race weekends without moving to consecutive rather than concurrent races (although this does already happen in Ulster). I understand there is a way to go given some of the comments made by GMCI, but maybe over time a regular masters racing series can evolve.

but as i recall there was nothing to stop promoters promoting for these cats. As was mentioned earlier former Pres Wylie did a huge amount of work and amended the regulations to cater for these changes, I assume these were accepted at congress? So we could see a masters league being promoted, hopefully. I hope that there will be enough riders at the younger masters age groups to have separate races.

Beasty · 03-11-2014 12:58pm

morana wrote: »

but as i recall there was nothing to stop promoters promoting for these cats. As was mentioned earlier former Pres Wylie did a huge amount of work and amended the regulations to cater for these changes, I assume these were accepted at congress? So we could see a masters league being promoted, hopefully. I hope that there will be enough riders at the younger masters age groups to have separate races.

As stated by GMCI above all we have set in stone are the Championships. Other than the 50+ A4/club league licence there are no other cats for "day to day" stuff at present. Maybe there is something allowing such races already in place or being contemplated but it is not clear if this is the case (not to me anyway)

Masters Championships 2015

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