Shocking Prime Time episode on tyre dumping.

Run_to_da_hills · 18-05-2010 1:56am #1

This is a typical example of where a directive is put in place that makes the initial problem worse off that it was before, i.e. Illegal dumping, potential fire hazards and tyre disposal licences handed out without planning permission for storage. Shocking to say the least.

Where are the Greens?

sceptre · 18-05-2010 2:03am

What was it like before the directive?

(I didn't watch Prime Time)

Run_to_da_hills · 18-05-2010 2:57am

sceptre wrote: »

What was it like before the directive?

(I didn't watch Prime Time)

Before the EU directive there was no tyre illegal dumping, no massive illegal stockpiles around the country with some very close to residential areas. (potential fire hazards) Directive was supposed to end the dumping tyres in landfills and encourage recycling.

Core charges were to be applied to tyre waste similar to the WEEE charge on electrical goods but it looks like as if much of this is not going through the correct channels and ending up in the wrong hands.

Programme. here for those that missed it.

nesf · 18-05-2010 2:59am

sceptre wrote: »

What was it like before the directive?

(I didn't watch Prime Time)

Before the directive we simply put them all in landfills and similar. Now we can't do that and have to recycle them. They tried the self regulation approach but the tyre industry doesn't seem to be playing nice, or at least large parts of it anyway.

sceptre · 18-05-2010 3:14am

Aha, understood. So is the problem the directive or the implementation of the directive? I tend to think of recycling as a good thing to strive for where possible regardless of the state of the planet so assuming that there was no illegal tyre dumping before the directive in part because it was legal to landfill them and assuming that we're not going to go back to landfill as a disposal solution, who needs to be happy slapped?

(thanks for the link RTDH but I'm not watching a Prime Time show about tyres, even I have my limits:) Interested in the problem and a solution though)

Scofflaw · 18-05-2010 3:19am

So, legal tyre dumping -> illegal tyre dumping?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Winty · 18-05-2010 8:51am

I heard an Urban Legend that may well be true.

Some travellers rented a storage yard in the midlands of England and paid a deposit and the rent on time every month much to the delight of the landlord. He believed the unit would be used to store road repair equipment.

They travelled the highways and byways of England under the disguise of a legitimate waste Management Company offering cut price tyre waste disposal.

The Landlord did not receive rent for a couple of weeks and when he called around his warehouse was locked and abandoned.

When he gained access he found thousands of used tyres stored in the unit. The tenants had disappeared of the face of the earth leaving him with a massive bill to dispose of hazardous waste.

Could be true, Could happen again.

Cookie_Monster · 18-05-2010 9:01am

Winty wrote: »

I heard an Urban Legend that may well be true.
Some travellers rented a storage yard in the midlands of England and paid a deposit and the rent on time every month much to the delight of the landlord. He believed the unit would be used to store road repair equipment.
They travelled the highways and byways of England under the disguise of a legitimate waste Management Company offering cut price tyre waste disposal.
The Landlord did not receive rent for a couple of weeks and when he called around his warehouse was locked and abandoned.
When he gained access he found thousands of used tyres stored in the unit. The tenants had disappeared of the face of the earth leaving him with a massive bill to dispose of hazardous waste.
Could be true, Could happen again.

Ha ha, that's genius.

If they ever get round to building the promised incinerator this could solve the problem. Burn them all in a controlled manner and generate power and hot water

I though most tyres could be re threaded and reconditioned anyway, like on that "How its made" show where they resurface truck tyres and they're perfectly usable again and only cost 40% of a new one?!

ednwireland · 18-05-2010 9:26am

loved gormleys plausible deniabilty

he must sit in his ivory tower not reading the paper and only travelling round certain parts of dublin to not realise how big a problem this is

didnt suprise me at all tbh

esp. the guy at the end who dumped the stuff on a farm and in a bog, bet he doesnt even get a fine

ei.sdraob · 18-05-2010 9:46am

Greens policy/regulation epic fail

gandalf · 18-05-2010 10:01am

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Greens policy/regulation epic fail

Corrected that for you

.

This is pathetic. The Greens have shown themselves to be away with the fairies with the so called "Green initiatives" that they have brought in. As demonstrated by this farce all they have done is increase charges to people without any real green benefit. The sooner we get to recycle these idiots the better.

ei.sdraob · 18-05-2010 10:13am

deadtiger wrote: »

Corrected that for you .

This is pathetic. The Greens have shown themselves to be away with the fairies with the so called "Green initiatives" that they have brought in. As demonstrated by this farce all they have done is increase charges to people without any real green benefit. The sooner we get to recycle these idiots the better.

yep

this shows how stupidly idealistic the Greens are
instead of pragmatically using this rubber after shredding etc in road-building (we have plenty of bad roads that could use with some work) or mixing it with building fill
it gets classified as waste and it all gets stuck in limbo-land
and whats worse they created a new quango for it, and the guy was unable to even describe what their job is, that was hilarious altogether

when watching the bit about that quarry in Galway, i was amused by the thought of the quarry face "collapsing" and burring the tires

damn im so evil :P

Joey the lips · 18-05-2010 10:22am

I watched the program as well. I have to say I try my best to love the greens but john gormless is a moran a total moran.He thinks an industry will self regulate in one sense and cannot trust an industry to self regulate in another. This is why he is introduciing water charges... Because he beleives the industry wastes water.

So why is it he cannot trust joe public to self regulate but yet trusts the greed of money to allow business to self regulate.

He is a moran.

The program was shocking I would not mind I was up the backroads of Kells the weekend and saw a load of tyres... I wondered who dumped them or was it a farmers attempt to store them

Riskymove · 18-05-2010 10:27am

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Greens policy/regulation epic fail

I thought the policy change was on the basis of an EU Directive??? was that not the case?

Judgement Day · 18-05-2010 10:33am

Shouldn't this thread be moved to Sustainabilty & Environmental Issues? Personally, I wasn't in the least surprised by the contents of the programme and it made for compulsive viewing - to watch people blatantly caught with their pants down. The Tuam quarry operator took the biscuit when on the second visit to their premises they told Prime Time that 80% of the tyres had been brought back to the old sugar factory site, when Prime Time's cameras had filmed them being buried on a farm and in a bog. One of the two directors of the company that were telling them about bringing the tyres back to the old sugar factory site denied any knowledge of the burying operations, despite being filmed working a tracked machine burying the tyres. Only in Ireland! Galway County Council involved up to their oxters and should be prosecuted along with many of the other participants in the programme. Gormless Gormley came across as completely detached from reality, didn't know what was going on, had set up a quango http://www.tracsireland.ie/ to administer some 'voluntary' scheme to ensure proper disposal of tyres, and one of whose board members had an illegal tyre storage depot in the middle of Delvin village.

TRACS, the Tyre Recovery Activity Compliance Scheme, came into operation in January 2008 following the new Waste Management Regulations from the Department of the Environment, Heritage & Local Government. Each year in Ireland an estimated 35,000 tonnes of waste tyres are generated.

TRACS is a voluntary compliance scheme for tyre industry operators to monitor the movement of tyres within the industry and promote legitimate reuse and recycling of waste tyres. By joining TRACS, tyre industry operators, suppliers, and waste collectors will fulfill their obligations under the Regulations.

The most humourous point in the film came when the RTE reporter asked the lady in question did she not feel that there was a conflict of interest - being on the board of Tracs and operator of an illegal tyre storage depot and what was she going to about it. She agreed that there was a conflict and when she was asked what was she going to do about she replied 'resign', asked when she replied 'straight away'! The fastest resignation in Irish history? Would that Gormley and his fellow travellers would follow suit. :mad:

Permabear · 18-05-2010 10:33am

This post has been deleted.

zootroid · 18-05-2010 10:34am

Riskymove wrote: »

I thought the policy change was on the basis of an EU Directive??? was that not the case?

AS far as I'm aware, the EU directive was that you cannot send tyres to landfill, you cannot send them for incineration, and you cannot export them outside the EU. They have to be recycled. The implementation of this directive is the issue here. And as it stands, there is an incentive to engage in the activities the program highlighted. There are high returns on offer, with little risk of being punished should you actually be caught.

ei.sdraob · 18-05-2010 10:37am

Riskymove wrote: »

I thought the policy change was on the basis of an EU Directive??? was that not the case?

It was I think

but the Greens took it further and made alot of noise about it apparently?

what i am tiring trying :P to say is that the Green's are all for "behaviour modification" and taxing and regulating everything

but as we can see here it all backfired badly

and the answer to all of this of course will be more regulation (that will be flaunted of course) and more bureaucracy while the environment suffers

maybe the Greens should just get all get together and commit a "harakiri"
the planet will be much better without these CO2 producing living organisms :P

Run_to_da_hills · 18-05-2010 10:41am

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Send them North, the 12th is not too far away.

The Davestator · 18-05-2010 10:41am

it was hardly the most shocking prime time ever -
Reporter - "do you except that you asre breaking the regululation about stacking tyres no more than 3 metres high"?
Tyre Lad - "eh, yeah (fecking eejit)

changes · 18-05-2010 11:01am

Its yet another green failure. Gormley and his fellows are not doing a great service to the green movement. I associate the greens now with costing me money and very badly administered initiatives.

(1.) Tyre fiasco
(2.) New motor tax system that ends up favouring the well off
(3.) Cycle to work scheme that suits the well paid (they pay sufficient tax to make it worth while)
(4.) Carbon tax (costly exercise in futility imo), expensive on rural and elderly who mainly use coal and oil and need cars to commute.

anymore · 18-05-2010 11:19am

I have felt for a long time that many Green solutions would actaully in the long term end up being environemtnally harmful.
I have seen several small envirnmental projects near me - cyle paths etc, actually end in the destruction of hundreds of metres of mature trees and undergrowth and the laying of extensive amounts of tarmac and concrete and a few token ' trees'.

ei.sdraob · 18-05-2010 11:37am

we should

1. collect all the tires on some remote island of ours (there are plenty)

2. then send an ultimatum to EU to give us 110 billion or the lot will be set on fire with the winds blowing it into europe

3. watch panic ensure as airlines and stock-markets go under in fear of the "Irish Toxic Cloud" etc etc

4. ??

5. Profit

to summarize we should do what the Greeks have done and hold the rest of Europe hostage

about time we wizen up :P

now thats a pragmatic solution

out of these billions we receive we can then allocate a few million to recycle these tires

its a win win for everyone including the environment

muahahahahahhaa

JonathanAnon · 18-05-2010 1:59pm

The Davestator wrote: »

Reporter - "do you except that you asre breaking the regululation about stacking tyres no more than 3 metres high"?
Tyre Lad - "eh, yeah (fecking eejit)

I dunno Dave, he seemed like the least sinister of all the guys on the show. I think he just tried to find a niche in the market and it didnt work out. As opposed to that guy with the quarry who was really show up.

The worst I thought was the TWM guy. Seamus Davern. (Paraphrased)
Davern: "We cannot force them to be compliant, we encourage 'em become compliant, we can help them.... "
Reporter: "so if you are toothless, then whats the point of the TWM..."
Davern: " Ehhhhhhh..." (pauses for a few seconds then laughs sheepishly)

Have to say the program was excellent, probably the best Prime Time of the year imo.. and that's saying something.. well done to the reporter. And I knew that guy in Kildare.. think he dropped off the tyres at a house near Newtown cross if anybody knows it.

gizmo555 · 18-05-2010 2:59pm

JonathanAnon wrote: »

I dunno Dave, he seemed like the least sinister of all the guys on the show. I think he just tried to find a niche in the market and it didnt work out.

If you're talking about the guy in Mayo, do you not think he ought to have accepted it wasn't working out before he'd accumulated one million(!) waste tyres outside his back door?

Mac daddy · 18-05-2010 3:14pm

gizmo555 wrote: »

If you're talking about the guy in Mayo, do you not think he ought to have accepted it wasn't working out before he'd accumulated one million(!) waste tyres outside his back door?

Worst thing about it is he got paid for it

You buy a new tyre from Quickfit or something similiar the cost of recycling the old tyre is already in your new ones price.

Quickfit ring up a bunch of Knackers, knackers who come along and take them away for 2 or 3 euro's each, the garage makes two euro profit from each tyre, the knacker well we just dumps them at the side of the Road.

John Gormely praises the green Idea, everyone else looks at yet another thing that the tax payer has to pay for now the cleanup.

expectationlost · 18-05-2010 8:46pm

ah regulation and.... enforcement.... need to employ more public servants to keep on eye on this

JonathanAnon · 18-05-2010 9:47pm

ah regulation and.... enforcement.... need to employ more public servants to keep on eye on this

Maybe Matthew Elderfield should be put in charge of the tyres as well...

fatherbuzcagney · 18-05-2010 10:01pm

Rubber tyres have great thermal properties and would make great insulation. Could they not be grinded/shredded down and pumped into the cavities of the thousands of poorly insulated houses nation wide instead of the polystyrene bead that is currently been used.

Run_to_da_hills · 18-05-2010 10:15pm

fatherbuzcagney wrote: »

Rubber tyres have great thermal properties and would make great insulation. Could they not be grinded/shredded down and pumped into the cavities of the thousands of poorly insulated houses nation wide instead of the polystyrene bead that is currently been used.

Tyres are highly inflammable and the fumes would more than likely kill off every living thing inside.

BeardyFunzo · 18-05-2010 10:22pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

we should

1. collect all the tires on some remote island of ours (there are plenty)

2. then send an ultimatum to EU to give us 110 billion or the lot will be set on fire with the winds blowing it into europe

3. watch panic ensure as airlines and stock-markets go under in fear of the "Irish Toxic Cloud" etc etc

4. ??

5. Profit

to summarize we should do what the Greeks have done and hold the rest of Europe hostage

about time we wizen up :P

now thats a pragmatic solution

out of these billions we receive we can then allocate a few million to recycle these tires

its a win win for everyone including the environment

muahahahahahhaa

Genius.

Darsad · 18-05-2010 10:23pm

Thought the poor guy in Kildare got an unnecessary hard time ! all he did was collect tyres and bring them to a tyre recycler . Cant see where the crime was there plus door stepping him with the camera was a bit OTT. €150 for 2 hours work fair dues to him !

yoshytoshy · 18-05-2010 10:26pm

Darsad wrote: »

Thought the poor guy in Kildare got an unnecessary hard time ! all he did was collect tyres and bring them to a tyre recycler . Cant see where the crime was there plus door stepping him with the camera was a bit OTT. €150 for 2 hours work fair dues to him !

I don't think they were after that guy ,it seemed they were high lighting the fact that anyone can pickup tyres and get rid of them.
What chance have we of regulation ,if anyone can claim to be a recycler.

edanto · 18-05-2010 10:38pm

Well if you're feeling entrepreneurial, I hear there's at least one warehouse full of tyres that you could probably get cheap!

fatherbuzcagney · 18-05-2010 10:46pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Tyres are highly inflammable and the fumes would more than likely kill off every living thing inside.

less flammable than what is been pumped into the cavities at present? If a fire starts in the cavity of any of the thousands of (grant aided) houses pumped with polystyrene and certified by the government funded sei who will take responsibility.

I cannot see how shredded tyres would be more hazardous than polystyrene , safer i would guess and would not catch fire or spread as quickly as polystyrene.

thebman · 18-05-2010 10:47pm

ednwireland wrote: »

loved gormleys plausible deniabilty

he must sit in his ivory tower not reading the paper and only travelling round certain parts of dublin to not realise how big a problem this is

didnt suprise me at all tbh

esp. the guy at the end who dumped the stuff on a farm and in a bog, bet he doesnt even get a fine

Wouldn't he need a car to get to a farm or bog :P

Run_to_da_hills · 18-05-2010 10:59pm

fatherbuzcagney wrote: »

less flammable than what is been pumped into the cavities at present? If a fire starts in the cavity of any of the thousands of (grant aided) houses pumped with polystyrene and certified by the government funded sei who will take responsibility.

I cannot see how shredded tyres would be more hazardous than polystyrene , safer i would guess and would not catch fire or spread as quickly as polystyrene.

Were you ever near / close to a blaizing tyre fire. The smoke is jet black,

fatherbuzcagney · 18-05-2010 11:09pm

yes i have seen tyres on fire and seen and smelled the fumes. Did you ever see a load of polystyrene on fire or smell the fumes?

If a house catches fire and is not caught in time it wouldn't make a difference whether you had the cavity filled with polystyrene bead or shredded rubber tyres. Thats the point im making.

Run_to_da_hills · 18-05-2010 11:14pm

fatherbuzcagney wrote: »

yes i have seen tyres on fire and seen and smelled the fumes. Did you ever see a load of polystyrene on fire or smell the fumes?

If a house catches fire and is not caught in time it wouldn't make a difference whether you had the cavity filled with polystyrene bead or shredded rubber tyres. Thats the point im making.

I am no fire expert but im sure tyre compound would burn a lot longer and fiercer than polystyrene. Going by any of the reports on the Galway or recent Worsop fires.

argosy2006 · 18-05-2010 11:29pm

tire fire ,

argosy2006 · 18-05-2010 11:31pm

if the cost of recycling the tyre is in cost of new one then aren't the tyre fitters ones who are responsible for hiring people with no waste permits to collect the tyres from them

pat58 · 18-05-2010 11:32pm

whole new meaning to its made round to go round,after all us tax payers will have to pay to get rid of the stock pile of tyres.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

fatherbuzcagney · 18-05-2010 11:39pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I am no fire expert but im sure tyre compound would burn a lot longer and fiercer than polystyrene. Going by any of the reports on the Galway or recent Worsop fires.

i agree , if i had to burn one of them to keep me warm i would burn the tyre as they would throw off great heat and last longer;) if i had a choice of which one to keep the cold out i would go for the tyres as well,

i think that the old tyres could be put to better use than burying them in bogs or quarries , shipping them to Vietnam or stock piling them so as they can accidently go up in flames.

i just don't see any greater risk in having shredded rubber in the cavity of a wall over polystyrene insulation.

Atlantic Dawn · 18-05-2010 11:39pm

Very hard problem now to solve as if you put a return bounty on the tyres the lads with the stockpiles will become multi millionaires at the stroke of a pen.

I suppose with all things we need to do the most simplest, run a search in Google for whatever works best throughout the EU and copy that, solved, no need for 10 groups of advisors consulting the Book Of Kells for inspiration at €90,000 a week.

goat2 · 19-05-2010 7:30pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Greens policy/regulation epic fail

greens policy
you can bury tyres in bogs
but
you should not cut turf

bmw535d · 20-05-2010 1:25am

Winty wrote: »

I heard an Urban Legend that may well be true.

Some travellers rented a storage yard in the midlands of England and paid a deposit and the rent on time every month much to the delight of the landlord. He believed the unit would be used to store road repair equipment.

They travelled the highways and byways of England under the disguise of a legitimate waste Management Company offering cut price tyre waste disposal.

The Landlord did not receive rent for a couple of weeks and when he called around his warehouse was locked and abandoned.

When he gained access he found thousands of used tyres stored in the unit. The tenants had disappeared of the face of the earth leaving him with a massive bill to dispose of hazardous waste.

Could be true, Could happen again.

i heard a similar story, this contractor was doing a large site in London, the cost of getting rid of the landfill was huge so he rented a massive warehouse and filled it to the brim. he then went back to Ireland

nuac · 22-05-2010 5:38pm

I have no technical knowledge of how tyres degrade but

1. Apart from volume issues, what would be the problem about putting them into landfill such as old quarries etc - I presume nothing leaches from them?

2. Can they be ground up and used in road construction?.

In what respect have the Green gone further than EU Directives?

Bucklesman · 22-05-2010 6:12pm

nuac wrote: »

Apart from volume issues, what would be the problem about putting them into landfill such as old quarries etc - I presume nothing leaches from them?

Well, firstly there's the risk of fire. People called arsonists like to set things on fire for their own amusement. A quarry full of tyres is going to burn for days, releasing toxic air pollutants (dioxins, sulphurs, heavy metals) and putting people and property at risk. Two fires in the North, according to Prime Time, cost £400,000 to put out.

Secondly, there are only so many quarries and landfill sites to actually fill. According to this, Irish people go through 3 million tyres a year, and they all have to go somewhere.

Can they be ground up and used in road construction?

Yup. The system that's been set up for the re-use of old tyres includes making them into road construction materials. Heck of a lot better than dumping them in quarries for scumbags to burn.

nuac · 22-05-2010 6:16pm

Thanks Buclesman.

Shocking Prime Time episode on tyre dumping.

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