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After denied entry to West Bank, Chomsky likens Israel to 'Stalinist regime'

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Personally, I don't thisnk such decisions are correct and I think Israel would have done itself a bigger favour by allowing the man passage. My real point is that if you spend your life inhabiting the margins that Chomsky does, you should expect that those you criticise for being irrational and vindictive will react in an irrational and vindictive manner.

    I imagine that's Chomsky's point here - that Israel, which he criticises for being irrational and vindictive, has acted in a demonstrably irrational and vindictive manner.

    That looks to me like Chomsky 1: Israel 0.

    As a bonus point for Chomsky, having been caught doing it, Israel have opted not to be transparent about it.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    This post has been deleted.

    Exile 1798 pretty much destroyed this argument of yours on the first page, I'm wondering why you felt it necessary to regurgitate it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Exile 1798


    This post has been deleted.

    Actually that's not clear at all. For some reason you've simply accepted the claims of the Israeli govt as the truth.

    It's also not apparent that he's done anything but grant an interview about his denial of entry to Haaretz. This hardly equates to "dancing around and shrieking", nor is the content of the interview hyperbolic.
    On Sunday, at about 1:30 P.M. he came to the Israeli side of the border with Jordan. After three hours of questioning, during which the border officer repeatedly called the Interior Ministry for instructions, Chomsky's passport was stamped with "Denied Entry."

    With Chomsky, 81, were his daughter Aviva, and a couple of old friends of his and his late wife.

    Entry was also denied to his daughter.

    Their friends, one of whom is a Palestinian who grew up in Beirut, were allowed in, but they opted to return with Chomsky to Amman.

    Chomsky told Haaretz that it was clear that his arrival had been known to the authorities, because the minute he entered the passport control room the official told him that he was honored to see him and that he had read his works.


    The professor concluded that the officer was a student, and said he looked embarrassed at the task at hand, especially when he began reading from text the questions that had been dictated to him, and which were also told to him later by telephone.


    Chomsky told Haaretz about the questions.

    "The official asked me why I was lecturing only at Bir Zeit and not an Israeli university," Chomsky recalled. "I told him that I have lectured a great deal in Israel. The official read the following statement: 'Israel does not like what you say.'"

    Chomsky replied: "Find one government in the world which does."

    "The young man asked me whether I had ever been denied entry into other countries. I told him that once, to Czechoslovakia, after the Soviet invasion in 1968," he said, adding that he had gone to visit ousted Czechoslovak leader Alexander Dubcek, whose reforms the Soviets crushed.

    In response to the official's question, Chomsky said that the subjects of his lectures were "America and the world," and "America at home."
    The official asked him whether he would speak on Israel and Chomsky said that because he would talk of U.S. policy he would also comment on Israel and its policies.

    He was then told by the official: "You have spoken with [Hassan] Nasrallah."

    "True," Chomsky told him. "When I was in Lebanon [prior to the war in 2006] I spoke with people from the entire political spectrum there, as in Israel I also spoke with people on the right."

    "At the time I read reports of my visit in the Israeli press, and the articles in the Israeli press had no connection with reality," Chomsky told the border official.

    The official asked Chomsky why he did not have an Israeli passport.

    "I replied I am an American citizen," Chomsky said.

    Chomsky said that he asked the man at border control for an official written explanation for the reason his entry was denied and that "it would help the Interior Ministry because this way my version will not be the only one given to the media."

    The official called the ministry and then told Chomsky that he would be able to find the official statement at the U.S. Embassy.
    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/after-denied-entry-to-west-bank-chomsky-likens-israel-to-stalinist-regime-1.290736


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    This post has been deleted.

    I have no idea - but then I wasn't aware either that Chomsky constituted the whole Left.

    amused,
    Scofflaw


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Dropping the mod hat for the moment, then - so you'd say that if someone courts controversy, they are fair game for 'controversial decisions'? Someone who, say, draws attention to planning abuse in Ireland should not be surprised if they are 'controversially' denied a State pension, perhaps? Someone who draws attention to human rights issues shouldn't be surprised if they are 'controversially' thrown in prison?

    Perhaps, at that, they shouldn't be surprised - but surely the question is not whether Chomsky was surprised (was he even surprised?) but whether it's right that someone who courts controversy should be subject to controversial decisions by States that are supposed to be democratic, transparent, and law-abiding. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of an arbitrary decision by Zimbabwe, but I would be surprised to hear of such an action by, say, Finland.

    Indeed, to describe the decision as 'not surprising' actually suggests a view of Israel as implicitly vindictive - which surely you're arguing against? Or are you merely arguing that Israel is entitled to be vindictive?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    Surely Israel is at least as entitled to be as vindictive as the countries that surround it ?
    Why is israel persistently judged as a First World country whilst all its surrounding neightbours can be treated as third world countires in terms of the level of respect for human rights that we expect from them ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    anymore wrote: »
    Surely Israel is at least as entitled to be as vindictive as the countries that surround it ?
    Why is israel persistently judged as a First World country whilst all its surrounding neightbours can be treated as third world countires in terms of the level of respect for human rights that we expect from them ?

    Largely because the supporters of Israel claim that it is superior to its neighbours. If you'd like to state, for the record, that you believe Israel is no better than its neighbours, go on ahead.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Largely because the supporters of Israel claim that it is superior to its neighbours. If you'd like to state, for the record, that you believe Israel is no better than its neighbours, go on ahead.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    I have consistently advocated Israel being treated on the same basis as its neighbours as far as Human Rights are concerned and said that Israel falls into the minor leagues as far as Human Rights abuses are concerned in the ME. It is the Islamic militias in Iraq, aided and abetted by neighbouring countries , who are resonsible for the enormous slaughter of civilians in the ME in the last 6/7 years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    anymore wrote: »
    I have consistently advocated Israel being treated on the same basis as its neighbours as far as Human Rights are concerned and said that Israel falls into the minor leagues as far as Human Rights abuses are concerned in the ME. It is the Islamic militias in Iraq, aided and abetted by neighbouring countries , who are resonsible for the enormous slaughter of civilians in the ME in the last 6/7 years.


    So it's quite alright to continue to act the way they do with regards to the situation in Palestine because someone nearby is doing something worse?

    This isn't a line of logic that will end well for any of us.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    anymore wrote: »
    I have consistently advocated Israel being treated on the same basis as its neighbours as far as Human Rights are concerned and said that Israel falls into the minor leagues as far as Human Rights abuses are concerned in the ME. It is the Islamic militias in Iraq, aided and abetted by neighbouring countries , who are resonsible for the enormous slaughter of civilians in the ME in the last 6/7 years.

    That's not an answer to the question, though.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    So it's quite alright to continue to act the way they do with regards to the situation in Palestine because someone nearby is doing something worse?

    This isn't a line of logic that will end well for any of us.
    Whan Hamas and its allies like Al Queda stop its years long war of terrorism, then the Isreal/ Palestinian issue will move towards some kind of resolution. Meanwhile if all the opponesnts of Israel focusses some of the time and energy that they devote to condemning israel to foccusing on the enormously greate loss of life in iraq, then the whole world will benefit. It is actually possible to condemn two or more wrongs, but sometimes, a sense of perspective, is required.
    Stalin would of course solved the palestinain issue, if palestine were adjacent to Russia, by slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Palestnians and deporting the rest to far distant gulags - a fact that we all know but which most choose to ignore.
    The real motivation for the comments regarding Stalin was I suggest a damaged ego !
    Stalin I should point out, as far as I know, did not establish as one of his founding principles , the determination to drive Israel into the sea. Hamas has.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    anymore wrote: »
    Whan Hamas and its allies like Al Queda stop its years long war of terrorism, then the Isreal/ Palestinian issue will move towards some kind of resolution. Meanwhile if all the opponesnts of Israel focusses some of the time and energy that they devote to condemning israel to foccusing on the enormously greate loss of life in iraq, then the whole world will benefit. It is actually possible to condemn two or more wrongs, but sometimes, a sense of perspective, is required.
    Stalin would of course solved the palestinain issue, if palestine were adjacent to Russia, by slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Palestnians and deporting the rest to far distant gulags - a fact that we all know but which most choose to ignore.
    The real motivation for the comments regarding Stalin was I suggest a damaged ego !
    Stalin I should point out, as far as I know, did not establish as one of his founding principles , the determination to drive Israel into the sea. Hamas has.

    So it's ok for me to beat my baby as long as my next door neighbour is burning his?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    More non-sequiturs.

    Hamas are not allied with Al Qaeda. And don't come back with your usual 'repeat what was said previously but with added odd claims' post. Try to back your original statement with sources and references, for once.

    Also - didn't we previously establish that justifying Israels actions by saying 'Hamas!!!!' doesn't work either chronologically or geographically...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Thread is degenerating into the usual slagging match. Give over.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭moonpurple


    ffs are living in gaza here?

    to blazes with north africa..why all these plo threads..


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    moonpurple wrote: »
    ffs are living in gaza here?

    to blazes with north africa..why all these plo threads..

    Can anyone decipher this?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    So it's a sort of extended ad hominem - Noam Chomsky is a bad person, therefore it's OK that Israel can deny him entry to the West Bank, even though the question of his support or not for Pol Pot was never raised by Israel?

    I'm not seeing relevance here.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw

    This is yet another non-thread which is just there as a forum for random slagging off of Israel, at the least it should be merged with the Israeli Apartheid thread where it seems to have at least some relevance.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    This is yet another non-thread which is just there as a forum for random slagging off of Israel, at the least it should be merged with the Israeli Apartheid thread where it seems to have at least some relevance.

    Nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Exile 1798


    This is yet another non-thread which is just there as a forum for random slagging off of Israel, at the least it should be merged with the Israeli Apartheid thread where it seems to have at least some relevance.

    What in this thread to you hold as "random slagging off of Israel"?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    OK, I think this probably isn't going to get better no matter how much people pick at it.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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