When did Battlestar Galactica loose the plot?

barneysplash · 16-03-2011 11:52pm #1

I think it was when Starbuck came back from the dead
and 4 of the final 5 Cylons started hearing the music that
lead them to be suddenly aware that they were Cylons.

Such a shame, as Season 2 was good.

What do you think?

TheIrishGrover · 17-03-2011 9:22am

....... it was AWESOME!

Flash86 · 17-03-2011 9:38am

I really don't think it did.

PeakOutput · 17-03-2011 2:54pm

it didnt it was good right up the last episode, caprica hasnt grbbed me but i might give it another go

eco2live · 17-03-2011 2:58pm

It was great all the way through to the end. How the starbuck thing played out was the only flaw in my eyes but it was good wondering what was going on for a bit.

Great series.

Stark · 17-03-2011 11:31pm

Second half of season 3.

barneysplash · 18-03-2011 5:48pm

Stark wrote: »

Second half of season 3.

Agreed, all the Cylon pondering about existence and there supposed
reverence of the Final 5, it was tough to sit through, a bit like Fair City in space.

I really liked the stuff from the first and second season, with Helo and Boomer
trapped on Cylon Occupied Caprica, and the resistance movement formed
by the Caprica Buccaneers.

And the whole religious cult formed by Balter, that was weak. As was the
Sam Anders "Total Recall" memory effort when he was shot in the head.

Overall I liked the series, but like Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, V
and Star Trek: Enterprise they could have been so much better.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, this is a forum for fans after all.

Sad Professor · 21-03-2011 2:08pm

I don't think it did either, but if it happened at any time it was in the series finale.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 21-03-2011 2:13pm

i dont think it lost the plot, but alot of stuff just kinda started to go a bit... loose

the angels thing, the "lolz god did it" lost style ending, the abandoning all technology to live as dirt farmers on earth (that always bugged the crap out of me, it was a death sentence for anyone with any sort of illness that generation or the next couple of thousand). I kinda lost a bit of respect for bsg when I found out they hadn't planned out the final five from the beginning, but spent the time between one of the seasons figuring out who they would be and how they could write it in.

granted every show can't be babylon 5 but.. yeuch, for such an important plot point to be just thrown together at the end.

Sad Professor · 21-03-2011 2:50pm

Yeah, the idea that whole fleet would unanimously decide that the best course of action was to send their ships into the sun so they could split into small groups and head into the wilderness to have sex with the natives (who probably would have skinned them and eat them alive) was utterly ridiculous.

I always felt the show should have ended with Apollo and Starbuck leading the remainder of the fleet off into space, possibly towards a new world (not real Earth), while Adama and everyone else died in the suicide mission to save Hera with just a single raptor carrying Hera and Boomer surviving. The Opera House should have been left a mystery. Same with "the messengers", but it could have been implied that they were an advanced alien species (think 2001, not Star Trek) that sought to guide humanity. Which isn't much better than what we got, but it beats angels from God.

barneysplash · 21-03-2011 2:52pm

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

granted every show can't be babylon 5 but.. yeuch.

Now that was a show that lost the plot big time.

The whole anti-climax of the Shadow wars - a terrible disappointment -
Let's all be friends - yawn. I think the studio chickend out of having
the much-prophesised massacre, as this would probably have raised the rating above PG.

When Kosh the Vorlon who lived in the poisionous gas room turns out
to be a do-gooder angel - terrible. He was such a cool and mysterious character.

I remember your one with the black eyes who worked for the Psi division,
now that was some scary stuff.

Mr. Chekov, Walter Koenig from Star Trek did his best to add some weight to the bad guy role.

Is this on Sky anywhere?

Sad Professor · 21-03-2011 2:56pm

To be fair though, B5's resolution was greatly rushed in the fourth season due to JMS's belief that show faced imminent cancellation. If not for that, the Shadow War wouldn't have been resolved until mid-5th season.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 21-03-2011 3:12pm

kosh wasn't a good guy though, the vorlons had spent millenia manipulating and subtly controlling the younger races, treating them as pawns in their fraternal spat with the shadows. granted kosh was a less dickish vorlon than most, but he was still kind of an asshole over all.

Watch Ryder · 15-04-2011 10:09am

It lost the plot from the very start imo.
They took a reimagined series and that was going to be flimsy at best...

TheIrishGrover · 15-04-2011 12:15pm

Watch Ryder wrote: »

It lost the plot from the very start imo.
They took a reimagined series and that was going to be flimsy at best...

..... and?

Watch Ryder · 18-04-2011 6:22pm

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

..... and?

The rest is history

noodler · 19-04-2011 10:50am

A brilliant show that sometimes dipped below brilliance?

Doesn't mean it 'lost the plot' imo.

irishthump · 20-04-2011 9:44pm

noodler wrote: »

A brilliant show that sometimes dipped below brilliance?

Doesn't mean it 'lost the plot' imo.

+1

Richard Dower · 22-04-2011 5:28pm

It lost the plot after the epic mini series, when it went to series.

Skerries · 22-04-2011 5:35pm

i just felt the last couple of series were just thrown together with little thought put into the actual ending
it just seemed like they had no clue how it was going to end and were writing it on a week to week basis

irishthump · 22-04-2011 10:10pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

It lost the plot after the epic mini series, when it went to series.

Is this guy havin' a laugh?!

noodler · 23-04-2011 1:44pm

irishthump wrote: »

Is this guy havin' a laugh?!

I am almost certain he is. The mini-series was downright cheesey compared to the main series.

bazz26 · 24-04-2011 8:15pm

The only episode I didn't like was the boxing one called "Unfinished Business". Totally pointless imo. That and the weak Starbuck is an angel conclusion in the final episode.

noodler · 24-04-2011 9:32pm

bazz26 wrote: »

The only episode I didn't like was the boxing one called "Unfinished Business". Totally pointless imo. That and the weak Starbuck is an angel conclusion in the final episode.

Never understood the hate on this episode.

The boxing scenes were cool and they provided some much needed insight into life on New Caprica in the year before the Cylons found them.

It also shows how Lee and Kara got together again and how Roslin and Adama's relationship progressed.

It also contained one of Bear McCreary's masterpieces in "Violence and Variations"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYwpt092O7U

DrumSteve · 29-04-2011 11:54am

This programme never lost the plot. It was ****ing epic.

minidazzler · 30-04-2011 4:37am

I watched the entire series in 2 weeks, it never lost the plot I think. I know that there are places where the writers literally were pulling stuff out of their ass, but I think what they pulled out was masterful. Great dialogue, great characters. I turned into a fanboy fast. The last episode had me in awe, absolutely loved it.

I'm actually going to the Battlestar Galactica exhibit somewhere in Seattle next week when I go over to visit a friend!

It's gonna be fantastic I think.

On the topic of Starbuck though, the coming back from the dead I still don't really understand properly (an angel maybe?), but how it played with her being the harbringer of death was awesome, given all the people of the 12 colonies did eventually die out as alluded to by Hera being Primordial Eve and a new "race" was born, us, all of whom share a common ancestry in Primordial Eve (who actually existed). So yeah, my opinion is that the show is freaking awesome.

expectationlost · 30-04-2011 11:13pm

from the start putting all that relgious nonsense in it. maybe sice ds9

noodler · 10-05-2011 9:48pm

bazz26 wrote: »

The only episode I didn't like was the boxing one called "Unfinished Business". Totally pointless imo. That and the weak Starbuck is an angel conclusion in the final episode.

Sorry to harp on - I justgot round to watching the extended version of Unfinished Business on Blu Ray (it wasn't included on the R2 DVDs).

It is awesome - there a good 25 minutes of extra footage : some real big character points in there

Kara told Tigh that she slept with Lee that night - it was him who (in a round about sort of way) convinced her to make a choice raegarding Lee/Anders plus she proposed to Anders that morning.

Dualla is outright told by Kara that she and Lee have slept together before - we subsequently see Lee's propoal to Dualla and she pretty much admits she knows she is merely a stopgap until Kara comes back into his life.

I have to say I think its a fabulous episode overall - watching Lee and Helo fight - Adama and the Chief etc. And the music - one of Bear McCreary's finest.

The Mad Hatter · 11-05-2011 1:28am

noodler wrote: »

Sorry to harp on - I justgot round to watching the extended version of Unfinished Business on Blu Ray (it wasn't included on the R2 DVDs).

It is awesome - there a good 25 minutes of extra footage : some real big character points in there
Kara told Tigh that she slept with Lee that night - it was him who (in a round about sort of way) convinced her to make a choice raegarding Lee/Anders plus she proposed to Anders that morning.

Dualla is outright told by Kara that she and Lee have slept together before - we subsequently see Lee's propoal to Dualla and she pretty much admits she knows she is merely a stopgap until Kara comes back into his life.

I have to say I think its a fabulous episode overall - watching Lee and Helo fight - Adama and the Chief etc. And the music - one of Bear McCreary's finest.

Yes, I loved that episode too - such fine character development, and I think a break was needed at the time from the main plot.

If I were to pick a single bad episode, it'd be Scar. The dialogue was weaker than it had been for much of the rest of the show, I found the premise a bit silly and there seemed to be no major impact on the rest of the series. But I still liked it - it just wasn't as good as the rest.

opinion guy · 17-05-2011 2:20pm

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

the angels thing, the "lolz god did it" lost style ending

:eek: How can you even make such a comparison ? Where to begin with how you are wrong ? Firstly - BSG finished first so if anything lost had a bsg style ending. Or it tried to. Badly. Secondly - BSG had a brilliant god did it ending that was interwined with long running themes of the show and it came together very well. Sure some didn't liek it btu you can't deny it was well drafted.

On the other hand the lost ending was the ultimate kick in the teeth to those who thought there was any semblance of a plot. It was essentially "all kinds a mad random crap happened. lolz jacob did it. lolz he didn't mother did it. lolz no she didn't. lolz everybody is actually dead. lolz. None of it bore any relation to any other of it.....lolz"

granted every show can't be babylon 5 but.. yeuch, for such an important plot point to be just thrown together at the end.

Ok so B5 started out all planned out but it didnt' end up that way. For one thing Bruce Boxleitner was brought in at the command of the network to raise the profile of the show. The original plan was to keep the original captain there. Thus rewrites ensued. Then there were cancellations and cancelled cancellations all of which brought redrafts of the arc plot. Really its just not possible to write a show 5 years in advance for various reasons of practicality

A pity Crusade didn't last. But yet another in a long line of scifi spin offs that didn't work.

lol....saw this one link someone posted and thought it was funny:

net randomers wrote:

Randomer A:
Between Farscape and Babylon 5, which would you choose?

Randomer B:
Babylon 5. Only one of the major characters is played by a puppet. And he doesn't look like Kermit's long lost cousin.

Hahaha

Sad Professor · 20-05-2011 11:22pm

BSG's finale bore absolutely no resemblance to the Lost finale. The only thing they had in common was that a lot of people were disappointed with them.

In fact, the Lost finale very carefully sidestepped many of the pitfalls that BSG fell into. There was no blatant use of deus ex machina in the Lost finale, where as there was probably at least a dozen different cases of it in the BSG finale. I don't have a problem with deus ex machina when it is used properly, but Moore just used it out of laziness. And then he almost broke the fourth wall at the end with one of the most ridiculous cameos I've ever seen. It's one thing to say "God did it", it's another to imply that "God" is the writer.

What Lost did have, however, was a big huge MacGuffin that the writers made no attempt to explain, which, given that it was a mystery show and they had promised answers, was obviously a big problem for many fans. The revelation of the final scenes are very misunderstood though, with many people ascribing far greater importance to it than was actually intended. It's true that most of the mystery wasn't tied up, but BSG was hardly any better in this regard. What was explained was explained as "God did it", while other things were just forgotten about.

noodler · 21-05-2011 12:06am

God's role in BSG was evident from day one - I really don't understand why people were so surprised by the finale.

GodlessM · 23-05-2011 12:19am

opinion guy wrote: »

lolz everybody is actually dead.

Shows how much attention you paid to the Lost finale. The flashes of S6 were placed in an afterlife after they all died; some on the island and some after; they weren't dead the whole duration of the show.

opinion guy · 23-05-2011 12:21am

GodlessM wrote: »

Shows how much attention you paid to the Lost finale. The flashes of S6 were placed in an afterlife after they all died; some on the island and some after; they weren't dead the whole duration of the show.

Did I forget to put a smiley on my post or are you just suffering from a sarcasm failure ?

Overheal · 26-05-2011 7:06pm

barneysplash wrote: »

I think it was when Starbuck came back from the dead
and 4 of the final 5 Cylons started hearing the music that
lead them to be suddenly aware that they were Cylons.

Such a shame, as Season 2 was good.

What do you think?

On the first run, it sure felt that way. Because we believed it was pure sci fi, and things like gods and angels did not exist in that universe and they just believe in it like you know, people do. By the end you find out thats the case though.

With that fact in mind, Im actually in the middle of a complete re-watch for the first time since the series ended and I have to say it's actually really good, with the "Hallucination" Six, and Baltar scenes taking on much more gravity.

Cookie_Monster · 27-05-2011 12:55pm

somewhere between season 4 eps 4-6

I've just watched up to here and it's all just gone a bit bananas there

Al Capwned · 30-05-2011 5:06pm

Fabulous
Fantastic
Brilliant
Superb
.....

Outstanding seriesfrom day 1 - dont think it ever lost the plot!!!!!!!

degrassinoel · 03-06-2011 8:13pm

I agree, and infact I decided to watch the entire thing again from scratch, its quite odd knowing how it ends and seeing how everything is panning out through the seasons, am halfway through S3 atm

scoobyjack · 07-06-2011 1:01pm

Have to admit, the only thing that got to me was the Starbuck "angel" thing... but the whole series was so outstandingly good that I quickly got over any qualms I had throughout.

Batigol · 09-08-2011 3:57pm

Got a loan of the boxset recently after hearing great things about the series. Currently on season 4 and I (with the caveat of not seeing the second half of season four or the final season) - I'm pretty sure it's lost the plot in the episode with Baltars trial (end of season 3). The episode itself was mostly good, then Jimi Hendrix/Bob Dylan entered and that was that.

From then on it's been 2-3 'meh' episodes followed by one interesting, then back to 'meh' etc, overly religious and so on. Hopefully it picks back up as I thought the first 3 seasons were some of the best tv out there (not just sci fi but in general)

Baltar has to be up there as one of the all time great characters

noodler · 09-08-2011 4:36pm

Batigol wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it's lost the plot in the episode with Baltars trial (end of season 3). The episode itself was mostly good, then Jimi Hendrix/Bob Dylan entered and that was that.

Thank god the majority of people disagree with you!

I love the way season 3 ends.

You have three seperate reveals, the fleet on the brink and a kickass song worked into the mix.

Batigol · 09-08-2011 5:54pm

noodler wrote: »

Thank god the majority of people disagree with you!

I love the way season 3 ends.
You have three seperate reveals, the fleet on the brink and a kickass song worked into the mix.

I understand it will read abit silly considering it's a show in space against a robot oppressor etc, but did you not think it was a little bit of a "jumped the shark moment"?

I thought it had been much more entertaining and believable in storyline/characters etc till that. Surely the reveals could of been done in another way - even a simple "switch" like Boomer rather than a song (albeit a kickass song) from the 60s

I haven't finished the series yet but I'm really skeptical that the song will be explained

opinion guy · 09-08-2011 6:09pm

Batigol wrote: »

I understand it will read abit silly considering it's a show in space against a robot oppressor etc, but did you not think it was a little bit of a "jumped the shark moment"?

I thought it had been much more entertaining and believable in storyline/characters etc till that. Surely the reveals could of been done in another way - even a simple "switch" like Boomer rather than a song (albeit a kickass song) from the 60s

I haven't finished the series yet but I'm really skeptical that the song will be explained

Batigol......obviously we don't want to give everything away. Alls i say is bear with it...

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 09-08-2011 6:10pm

opinion guy wrote: »

Batigol......obviously we don't want to give everything away. Alls i say is bear with it...

oh you sneaky son of a bitch

Batigol · 09-08-2011 9:14pm

opinion guy wrote: »

Batigol......obviously we don't want to give everything away. Alls i say is bear with it...

First 3 seasons mean I will be watching till the end. It's not that I dislike the series as a whole, I just feel (at the moment anyway) that the end of season 3 and start of season 4 have been really weak compared to what came before. Hopefully the 2nd half of 4 and the final season will pay off

Batigol · 17-08-2011 9:52am

Finished it!

I still think it got much weaker

end of season 3, after the trial when the final 5 hear Jimi Hendrix/Bob Dylan

compared to the first seasons but I'll admit some of the best parts of the series came in the final season.

Mutiny episodes were the best of probably the entire show

Starbuck - Piano Man (was he supposed to be Daniel the 7th Cylon or just a random apparition?) was terrible

Final itself was 90% brilliant but I didn't like the final montage parts - basically ' God did it ', she was actually a fraking angel nonsense. Was always a religious show but it went beyond into preachy mode which is too much for me

Still.....

The best scifi show (prob) ever.

noodler · 17-08-2011 10:34am

Batigol wrote: »

Finished it!

I still think it got much weaker
end of season 3, after the trial when the final 5 hear Jimi Hendrix/Bob Dylan
compared to the first seasons but I'll admit some of the best parts of the series came in the final season.

I will agree season 4 had ssome weak points, as did season 3 (in the second half) but I can simply not agree with you regarding the finale in season 3. That was brilliant.

Batigol wrote: »

Mutiny episodes were the best of probably the entire show

Couldn't agree more, I wish they had been an episode longer - finished too quickly.[/QUOTE]

Batigol wrote: »

Starbuck - Piano Man (was he supposed to be Daniel the 7th Cylon or just a random apparition?) was terrible

You might not have completely gotten that part. I thought the reveal was excellent - sent chills down my spine.

Batigol wrote: »

Final itself was 90% brilliant but I didn't like the final montage parts - basically ' God did it ', she was actually a fraking angel nonsense. Was always a religious show but it went beyond into preachy mode which is too much for me

Still.....

In the middle of watching the (majorly extended) finale on BR at the moment! But the god part was evident eversince

they seemed to decide 'Head Six' was not a cylon (not sure when they made this decision - in the mini series she is clearly unmoved at the fact a genocide just took place, in season 2 she seems distraught one cylon has been tortured...)

opinion guy · 17-08-2011 10:46am

noodler wrote: »

In the middle of watching the (majorly extended) finale on BR at the moment! But the god part was evident eversince

BR ????

noodler · 17-08-2011 10:48am

opinion guy wrote: »

BR ????

Blu Ray

HivemindXX · 14-10-2011 6:06pm

Based on the thread title I don't think spoiler concealment is necessary...

I'm one of the people who felt BSG went off the rails a bit near the end. This is not to say it wasn't still good.

I've been rewatching recently and I figured this is a good place to post my opinions of bad bits as I get to them.

Knowing the ending I don't think Head 6 works very well as what she turns out to be. The character works amazingly well as a figment of genius Baltars tortured imagination. As an angel, an actual instrument of an actual Gods will, not so much. There were a number of points where my foreknowledge of where things were going made me question the characterisation.

The other thing that doesn't work extremely well is the various attempts to make the cylons seem sympathetic. Having watched the obliteration of the colonies only a week ago it seems hard to do take those attempts seriously.

Apart from that the first season was just excellent. There's some very minor issues with questions about humanoid Cylon physiology (are they super strong or not? do they have glow sticks all down their spine or not?) but nothing worth worrying about.

I'm half way through the second season and a couple of things struck me about the last couple of episodes.

Firstly Roslins miracle cure from the foetal blood was a bit heavy handed, it came out of nowhere and just seemed like a cheap Saturday morning serial method of getting the story away from the edge of the cliff. I can't remember but I presume this amazing healing power never gets used to cure anyone else across the fleet.

Secondly there was a major development in Baltar's character. His character is fantastic, he's clearly brilliant but terribly flawed. He seems to be developing in to a better person but after reading the letter from Roslin (which was quite mild, especially when you consider what he was actually guilt of) he freaks out completely and does something completely out of character (not self serving, not smart, not decent). You can argue against that but I just don't buy that action as in character.

So far the plot is very much still on track. I have no problem with all the mysticism, religion and prophecy because so far there it is all ambiguous whether there is an actual God or not, you can take things either way.

MisterAnarchy · 23-10-2011 2:06am

noodler wrote: »

In the middle of watching the (majorly extended) finale on BR at the moment! But the god part was evident eversince

I wasnt aware of an extended finale...I must watch it.:)

When did Battlestar Galactica loose the plot?

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