Ireland v Czech Republic

Mr.Nice Guy · 29-02-2012 10:49pm

Mars Bar wrote: »

I don't think one person in this thread has said he should be sacked.

Almost everyone has been asking for a look at different players.

Not true.

andyman · 29-02-2012 10:53pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Anyone can blood new players. He's been the one that's seen the players up close and knows the score better than anybody. Not everyone can get a country with our limitations mixing it with the best teams in the world and Trap has done so.

I don't have a problem with people bemoaning his decisions as I disagree with some of them tonight myself, but those calling him a disgrace and saying he should be sacked ought to get a hold of themselves. Talk about ungrateful.

Some of you lot don't know how lucky we have it at the moment.

That's all well and good, but the argument that I can say is that we've gotten where we are through a lot of good fortune. We've been dominated in a lot of games and it's only a matter of time before we get an absolute hiding.

We need to try something. Playing Robbie the way he did tongiht was a start, now let's see what McCarthy can do, because we haven't seen enough. Or McClean, because he could give us a plan B if our Plan A isn't working.

We are very limited, you're right, but in my opinion I think it's because Trap allows us to be.

Mars Bar · 29-02-2012 10:53pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Not true.

Please find a post where a person said he should be sacked...

Mr.Nice Guy · 29-02-2012 10:56pm

Mars Bar wrote: »

Please find a post where a person said he should be sacked...

Check the pages before the equaliser and around the time of the substitutions.

Nowso · 29-02-2012 10:59pm

Trapatoni announces that Shane Duffy would play the other day. then Duffy sitss out the whole game.

Very bad form from Trapatoni. disgrace

Leiva · 29-02-2012 10:59pm

It's a friendly FFS.

Pack a bleeding whingers if you ask me .

Mars Bar · 29-02-2012 11:01pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Check the pages before the equaliser and around the time of the substitutions.

Read through them, one post alright.

No need to be sacking a manager with such good results.
Just wish he'd experiment a bit! It's so frustrating. I'd imagine McCarthy and Coleman will feel like putting a pic of Trap on a punch bag or dart board soon.

the realpigiron · 29-02-2012 11:02pm

Trapatoni has got Ireland in the Euro's, that is a huge achievement and makes him unsackable. However looking at the lack of preparatory work - vis a vis trying new players who may give the team more impetus or step in if needed - at this remove Ireland will fizzle out at the group stages. Hope I'm wrong.

Rekop dog · 29-02-2012 11:02pm

People don't appreciate the levels of preparation and practice that it takes for Traps system to function effectively, and how familier players have to be in their roles. If they did they'd understand why he isn't blooding new players at *this* stage. Read Didi Hamann's biography and his admiration for Trap and you'll get a good insight into the depth and unparalled level of preparation.

I think he's a victim of his own success to a certain extent and has given people a false impression of our ability who think we'd do better with someone else. The truth is we're punching above our weight and over achieving which is largely imo due to his shrewdness.

Mr.Nice Guy · 29-02-2012 11:07pm

McCarthy will find it tough to go now.

Let's remember Gibson has to come back in and if he keeps getting games with Everton then he probably leapfrogs McCarthy in the pecking order.

steelcityblues · 29-02-2012 11:11pm

No harm in letting Hunt, Cox, Walters, etc start the next friendly, as they clearly wanted to make an impression.

Raskolnikov · 29-02-2012 11:16pm

The only person I feel sorry for tonight is McCarthy. I think the others could be excused for not getting a game.

Rhys Essien · 29-02-2012 11:16pm

Rekop dog wrote: »

People don't appreciate the levels of preparation and practice that it takes for Traps system to function effectively, and how familier players have to be in their roles. If they did they'd understand why he isn't blooding new players at *this* stage. Read Didi Hamann's biography and his admiration for Trap and you'll get a good insight into the depth and unparalled level of preparation.

I think he's a victim of his own success to a certain extent and has given people a false impression of our ability who think we'd do better with someone else. The truth is we're punching above our weight and over achieving which is largely imo due to his shrewdness.

What a load of utter b*ll*cks.They are not doing nuclear physics.
Tell that to Johnny Giles and see what he would say.

"punching above our weight":rolleyes:............We have the bloody players If he only used them.

Mr.Nice Guy · 29-02-2012 11:18pm

Rhys Essien wrote: »

What a load of utter b*ll*cks.They are not doing nuclear physics.
Tell that to Johnny Giles and see what he would say.

"punching above our weight":rolleyes:............We have the bloody players If he only used them.

And how does Giles's managerial record compare with Trap's?

Pro. F · 29-02-2012 11:18pm

Rekop dog wrote: »

People don't appreciate the levels of preparation and practice that it takes for Traps system to function effectively, and how familier players have to be in their roles. If they did they'd understand why he isn't blooding new players at *this* stage. Read Didi Hamann's biography and his admiration for Trap and you'll get a good insight into the depth and unparalled level of preparation.

I think he's a victim of his own success to a certain extent and has given people a false impression of our ability who think we'd do better with someone else. The truth is we're punching above our weight and over achieving which is largely imo due to his shrewdness.

No we are not.

Coming second in that poor group (which is only one place above our seeding anyway) and beating a woeful team in the play-off is not punching above our weight. Considering the quality of the players available to the Irish team and the quality of the opposition we have faced we are not over achieving.

ceegee · 29-02-2012 11:23pm

DEVEREUX wrote: »

Ireland didn't play for a good 50 minutes, imagine that against Spain in the euro's. I wonder what the worst defeat for a team in the finals actually was, Ireland will leak goals like a sieve and claim that coveted prize.

No they wont. Have you watched Irelands games under Trap? We have several failings but being a walkover aint one. Ireland will keep the scoreline respectable against Spain

Rhys Essien · 29-02-2012 11:25pm

Raskolnikov wrote: »

The only person I feel sorry for tonight is McCarthy. I think the others could be excused for not getting a game.

Ya and Shane Duffy who nearly went down 6 feet for Ireland.This week he gave an interview saying he was over the moon to be called up........................to be left on the bench.:rolleyes:

~Rebel~ · 29-02-2012 11:26pm

I see a lot of people complaining about Trap using friendlies wrong, that the result doesn't matter and he should just be blooding people.

Trap himself explained why he does what he does in the past week.
FIFA Rankings.

They include friendlies, and as Trap explained, to give Ireland the best chance of a decent qualifying group, he has to take all matches seriously.

Frankly, it makes perfect sense. We'd have a hell of a lot better chance qualifying as second seeds in a group rather than third, and when we get to a tournament, it would be nice to not face another group of death as we have to this time.

I think he's played it out pretty well to be honest. The friendly tournament last summer was an opportunity to blood new players, and also get wins, and he did that.

Rhys Essien · 29-02-2012 11:33pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

And how does Giles's managerial record compare with Trap's?

Nobody is denying Traps record but Giles didnt have the players.Trap does but is not using them.

You do realise we had 4 Premiership players who were not even in the squad tonight.(Wilson,Clark,Hoolahan and Meyler),Apart from the ones he left on the bench.

steelcityblues · 29-02-2012 11:34pm

One of the newer posters, who has not reached the post tally yet, PM'd me to ask what the song was at the end of the coverage. Anyone know?

clubberlang12 · 29-02-2012 11:40pm

Even taking into account Traps reasons for fielding strong teams and getting results in friendlies, i would agree largely with his reasons, how can he explain Green playing tonight? What did he contribute tonight? Surely McCarthy was the logical choice to bring on? Did we learn anything about Hunt? Why not Coleman? Would he not have put in the same work-rate as Hunt?

The majority of poster here knows Trap has done a good job getting us to the Euro's. Not the exceptional job some would argue, but a good job. But that doesn't mean we can't question some of his decisions. Trap is the manager for the next 2 years and he does have the responsibility of also developing the next national team. People aren;t crying out for all these youngster to start or play 90 minutes but if Trap can;'t even give Duffy, McCarthy or Coleman some game time towards the end of a friendly, how does this bode for when we may need them in competitive games.

Corholio · 29-02-2012 11:48pm

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Even taking into account Traps reasons for fielding strong teams and getting results in friendlies, i would agree largely with his reasons, how can he explain Green playing tonight? What did he contribute tonight? Surely McCarthy was the logical choice to bring on? Did we learn anything about Hunt? Why not Coleman? Would he not have put in the same work-rate as Hunt?

The majority of poster here knows Trap has done a good job getting us to the Euro's. Not the exceptional job some would argue, but a good job. But that doesn't mean we can't question some of his decisions. Trap is the manager for the next 2 years and he does have the responsibility of also developing the next national team. People aren;t crying out for all these youngster to start or play 90 minutes but if Trap can;'t even give Duffy, McCarthy or Coleman some game time towards the end of a friendly, how does this bode for when we may need them in competitive games.

I was half way through a post here but to be honest this sums up what I feel more than I would have written.

One thing that really bothers me is this ' the achievement is getting there, we'll have some craic at the tournament' talk. I'm all for social festivities, but if we go out without a whimper that'll overshadow it for me without a doubt.

Raskolnikov · 29-02-2012 11:50pm

clubberlang12 wrote: »

People aren;t crying out for all these youngster to start or play 90 minutes but if Trap can;'t even give Duffy, McCarthy or Coleman some game time towards the end of a friendly, how does this bode for when we may need them in competitive games.

I don't understand what the situation is with McCarthy, but there is nothing wrong with not playing Coleman or Duffy. Coleman has been injured and hasn't even kicked a ball since last year (when he hasn't been in good form anyway). Duffy is only 20 and started 3 Premier League games ever, his time will come.

Dempsey · 29-02-2012 11:53pm

Looking back on Cox's goal, he would have been absolutely slated for not pulling the ball back to Walters for a tap in, had he missed. The chance he took only comes off about 2/10, being generous. I dunno whether to give him credit or call him naive tbh.

clubberlang12 · 29-02-2012 11:56pm

Raskolnikov wrote: »

I don't understand what the situation is with McCarthy, but there is nothing wrong with not playing Coleman or Duffy. Coleman has been injured and hasn't even kicked a ball since last year (when he hasn't been in good form anyway). Duffy is only 20 and started 3 Premier League games ever, his time will come.

Cox can't make the Brom team. Hunt can't make the Wolves first 11 anytime i've watched them. Coleman and Duffy were obviously fit enough to train. I can't see how 10-15 mins for one or both toward the end of the game would have been catastrophic. We have an ageing team that will be heading straight into a very tough WC qualifying group after the Euro's. International experience is important for these players. On evidence of to night and some other friendlies, that game time will be hard to come by.

29-02-2012 11:57pm

Dempsey wrote: »

Looking back on Cox's goal, he would have been absolutely slated for not pulling the ball back to Walters for a tap in, had he missed. The chance he took only comes off about 2/10, being generous. I dunno whether to give him credit or call him naive tbh.

I'm of the opinion that strikers need to be somewhat selfish, something that has been lacking in the Irish team more often than not IMO. I'm glad he saw and then took the chance, takes quality to do that.

tayto lover · 29-02-2012 11:58pm

Mc Carthy is only an average player anyway so I can't understand all the fuss about him not getting on tonight. Trap knows best.

Pro. F · 01-03-2012 12:01am

tayto lover wrote: »

Mc Carthy is only an average player anyway so I can't understand all the fuss about him not getting on tonight.

No he is not.

clubberlang12 · 01-03-2012 12:02am

tayto lover wrote: »

Mc Carthy is only an average player anyway so I can't understand all the fuss about him not getting on tonight. Trap knows best.

How would you rate Green?

Rhys Essien · 01-03-2012 12:03am

With Paul Green coming on tonight ahead of James McCarthy it was non other than mind boggling and is mental torture for McCarthy.

If if carries on I wouldnt be suprised if McCarthy says he does not want to play international football.

tayto lover · 01-03-2012 12:05am

clubberlang12 wrote: »

How would you rate Green?

Average too but then I don't know Trap's reasons for playing him. Trap is his own man and has a plan for them all and for each particular game. He obviously sees Green as a better man than McCarthy to carry out that plan.

devotional1993 · 01-03-2012 12:12am

Rhys Essien wrote: »

With Paul Green coming on tonight ahead of James McCarthy it was non other than mind boggling and is mental torture for McCarthy.

If if carries on I wouldnt be suprised if McCarthy says he does not want to play international football.

Well he can fcuk off so. Hes not bloody Maradona-infact the cupla times he did play for us was bloody woeful.His time will come hopefully.

The reacton to Mcclean was way ott. I remember the same kinda stuff for Coleman and McCarthy too.

Raskolnikov · 01-03-2012 12:13am

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Cox can't make the Brom team.

Oh right, so we drop a player who has been superb for us in the matches he has played?

Rhys Essien · 01-03-2012 12:14am

tayto lover wrote: »

Mc Carthy is only an average player anyway so I can't understand all the fuss about him not getting on tonight. Trap knows best.

Be honest,have you ever seen him play?

Well this summer when Wigan are relegated the chances are you will see him next season playing for a top club.

clubberlang12 · 01-03-2012 12:14am

tayto lover wrote: »

Average too but then I don't know Trap's reasons for playing him. Trap is his own man and has a plan for them all and for each particular game. He obviously sees Green as a better man than McCarthy to carry out that plan.

See for me, McCarthy is a far better player than Green.........far better. This leaves me with the following assumption. Trap would rather stick to a rigid system and use inferior players, than try and adapt his system to make use of his better resources. I can't argue with Trap getting us to the Euro's. He has essentially fulfilled his mandate. But on numerous occasions we are getting completely outplayed in midfield by what i would class inferior teams. We sit too deep and gift teams time and space and when we come up against quality teams this summer i will be fearful. I don't see how Green benefited us by coming on tonight. That is the crux of many posters queries. We already have a ball winner in Andrews. Green is no more physical or has greater ball winning capabilities than McCarthy. Whereas McCarthy has far superior ball playing attributes than Green. If we retain the ball and use it better, opposition teams won't will become less of the threat we have seen them become at the Aviva and abroad.

Johnny_the_fox · 01-03-2012 12:19am

Why should trap turn his back on the players the got us to the Euro?

Yes, I understand the need to bring new players into the squad, and i think trap will bring these players into the squad over time... but there is no need for the gold rush. I fear that 'we' will start to over hype these new players and in a few years they will end up playing the odd match for Nottingham Forest, Perth Glory or even Cork City... and forgot about..

The midfield of Whelan and Andrews - isnt that exciting, but they do their job - they are no better than Holland and Kinsella, back in the day. McCarthy got a chance playing in the Totti role, but didnt play that well.. Would he play in the central midfield of two, rather than three – at the minute I don’t think he has the presence for that role.

what did we learn tonight:
O'Dea didnt look out of place - if we miss Dunne.
Whelan and Andrews can kick long balls and pick out people.
Cox/Walters have booked their place.
Paul Green looks to have lost his place.

(poor lad)

support the team.. and keep the faith.

It could be worst lads, we could be england with no manager - play a friendly nothing learnt from it.

clubberlang12 · 01-03-2012 12:20am

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Oh right, so we drop a player who has been superb for us in the matches he has played?

No, you are assuming that is what i meant. Coleman was a regular in the Everton team before his injury and has no doubt been training fine since recovering, otherwise i can't see Moyes clearing him to play. Likewise, Duffy. Do you know whether they have played reserve football? Because essentially, that is what Cox and to an extend Hunt have been playing. But this has not hindered their ability to get game time under Trap.

Who's to say either of them can't try and stake a claim in the team by getting some game time?

Edit:Obviously Duffy was not a regular at Everton, but my point was he must have been training fine.

Richard Hillman · 01-03-2012 12:22am

Johnny_the_fox wrote: »

Why should trap turn his back on the players the got us to the Euro?

He doesnt get paid to be sentimental.

Rhys Essien · 01-03-2012 12:22am

One positive tonight

Italy 0 - 1 USA
Croatia 1 - 3 Sweden

tayto lover · 01-03-2012 12:23am

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Be honest,have you ever seen him play?

Well this summer when Wigan are relegated the chances are you will see him next season playing for a top club.

The last time I saw him play for Ireland he was crap and gave the ball away a lot.
If McCarthy was that good he would be playing with a top Premiership team now.

G.K. · 01-03-2012 12:25am

Johnny_the_fox wrote: »

Why should trap turn his back on the players the got us to the Euro?

Yes, I understand the need to bring new players into the squad, and i think trap will bring these players into the squad over time... but there is no need for the gold rush. I fear that 'we' will start to over hype these new players and in a few years they will end up playing the odd match for Nottingham Forest, Perth Glory or even Cork City... and forgot about..

The midfield of Whelan and Andrews - isnt that exciting, but they do their job - they are no better than Holland and Kinsella, back in the day. McCarthy got a chance playing in the Totti role, but didnt play that well.. Would he play in the central midfield of two, rather than three – at the minute I don’t think he has the presence for that role.

what did we learn tonight:
O'Dea didnt look out of place - if we miss Dunne.
Whelan and Andrews can kick long balls and pick out people.
Cox/Walters have booked their place.
Paul Green looks to have lost his place. (poor lad)

support the team.. and keep the faith.

It could be worst lads, we could be england with no manager - play a friendly nothing learnt from it.

That's not the point. The point is what happens if Andrews, Whelan, Duff and Sledge are all injured for the Euros?

clubberlang12 · 01-03-2012 12:26am

An interesting side note was the O'Shea interview afterwards. He said how the training sessions this week were the most intense ones for a couple of years because of the young lads trying to impress. This would back up that some of the established players may just be getting a bit to complacent at the minute. If this causes them to focus that is only of benefit to the team.

Johnny_the_fox · 01-03-2012 12:30am

G.K. wrote: »

That's not the point. The point is what happens if Andrews, Whelan, Duff and Sledge are all injured for the Euros?

what about keane, doyle and long - if they get injured? where is the next star striker?

Rhys Essien · 01-03-2012 12:30am

clubberlang12 wrote: »

An interesting side note was the O'Shea interview afterwards. He said how the training sessions this week were the most intense ones for a couple of years because of the young lads trying to impress. This would back up that some of the established players may just be getting a bit to complacent at the minute. If this causes them to focus that is only of benefit to the team.

Probably Paul Green running around like a headless chicken and everyone else trying to get out of the way.:D

Johnny_the_fox · 01-03-2012 12:32am

Richard Hillman wrote: »

He doesnt get paid to be sentimental.

He doesnt get paid to go by what the public view is.. or else he would never have won soo many cups in germany and italy.

Rekop dog · 01-03-2012 12:35am

One of the likeable traits of Trap imo is that pays absolutely zero attention (and never has) to the media and won't be influenced by who they think should play. He's got a unflappable confidence in his mangerial ability and why wouldn't he with his track record. He's also left out far bigger and better players down the years in Serie A as they weren't in his opinion suitable to his system, again with successful eventual outcomes.

CiaranC · 01-03-2012 12:36am

A standing ovation for a player who has never played before and 95% of the crowd had never heard of 8 months ago, lol. I think they interupted their mexican wave for it too

G.K. · 01-03-2012 12:38am

Johnny_the_fox wrote: »

what about keane, doyle and long - if they get injured? where is the next star striker?

Walters... Cox... (Then Best and Keogh after I guess) Trap's at least tried some of them out.

What decent CM or CB backup has he given any significant gametime?

O'Dea...

noodler · 01-03-2012 12:44am

CiaranC wrote: »

A standing ovation for a player who has never played before and 95% of the crowd had never heard of 8 months ago, lol. I think they interupted their mexican wave for it too

You'd swear he's been class for a full season - not 6 weeks!

Johnny_the_fox · 01-03-2012 12:44am

Kelly / O'Shea?
Fahey / Gibson?

Ireland v Czech Republic

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